. Apathy in the church regarding abortion

[Philos]

In the late 1930s and early 1940s Nazi Germany was persecuting and implementing a genocidal plan to exterminate the Jewish race.
Their modus operandi, with the help of Joseph Gobbels propaganda machine, postulated that the root cause of Germany's problems was being caused by a subhuman race they labeled the "Jews". Since they were labeled a subhuman species this supposedly justified their genocide.
Although there were many Germans who did not believe the propaganda and even hid and protected many Jews, to the peril of their own lives if caught, The majority of the German population either supported, allowed, or ignored this persecution. This included the Anglican, Lutheran, Catholic and other churches. To this day adolf Hitler was never excommunicated from the Catholic Church and in fact the Catholic Church was the main player in the Rat line for the escaping of Nazi leaders at the end of the war.
My thesis is this: Why is the evangelical church in America and the Catholic Church being so apathetic in regard to the murdering of innocent human beings? As we sit in our comfortable churches every Sunday and listen to our Bible study lectures and sing our songs of praise hundreds if not thousands of precious human beings are being murdered.

 

[Cameron143]

In the late 1930s and early 1940s Nazi Germany was persecuting and implementing a genocidal plan to exterminate the Jewish race.
Their modus operandi, with the help of Joseph Gobbels propaganda machine, postulated that the root cause of Germany's problems was being caused by a subhuman race they labeled the "Jews". Since they were labeled a subhuman species this supposedly justified their genocide.
Although there were many Germans who did not believe the propaganda and even hid and protected many Jews, to the peril of their own lives if caught, The majority of the German population either supported, allowed, or ignored this persecution. This included the Anglican, Lutheran, Catholic and other churches. To this day adolf Hitler was never excommunicated from the Catholic Church and in fact the Catholic Church was the main player in the Rat line for the escaping of Nazi leaders at the end of the war.
My thesis is this: Why is the evangelical church in America and the Catholic Church being so apathetic in regard to the murdering of innocent human beings? As we sit in our comfortable churches every Sunday and listen to our Bible study lectures and sing our songs of praise hundreds if not thousands of precious human beings are being murdered.

What do you recommend that people do, and what are you doing?

 

[ResidentAlien]

In the late 1930s and early 1940s Nazi Germany was persecuting and implementing a genocidal plan to exterminate the Jewish race.
Their modus operandi, with the help of Joseph Gobbels propaganda machine, postulated that the root cause of Germany's problems was being caused by a subhuman race they labeled the "Jews". Since they were labeled a subhuman species this supposedly justified their genocide.
Although there were many Germans who did not believe the propaganda and even hid and protected many Jews, to the peril of their own lives if caught, The majority of the German population either supported, allowed, or ignored this persecution. This included the Anglican, Lutheran, Catholic and other churches. To this day adolf Hitler was never excommunicated from the Catholic Church and in fact the Catholic Church was the main player in the Rat line for the escaping of Nazi leaders at the end of the war.
My thesis is this: Why is the evangelical church in America and the Catholic Church being so apathetic in regard to the murdering of innocent human beings? As we sit in our comfortable churches every Sunday and listen to our Bible study lectures and sing our songs of praise hundreds if not thousands of precious human beings are being murdered.

I don't understand how you reached this conclusion. If you've been paying attention you know enthusiasm for the rights of the unborn is very high, in the US at least.

 

[Philos]

"I don't understand how you reached this conclusion"
You assume that this is just my personal conclusion and not the conclusion of many others which reflects a lack of knowledge and research as it pertains to this thesis. Before I conclude this post I will show that the conclusion is so obvious that no other conclusion can be made.

"If you've been paying attention you know enthusiasm for the rights of the unborn is very high, in the US at least."
See my answer above. First of all, let me reiterate my thesis again: Why is the evangelical church in America and the Catholic Church so apathetic regarding the murdering of innocent human beings? As we sit in our comfortable churches every Sunday and listen to our Bible study lectures and sing our songs of praise hundreds if not thousands of precious human beings are being murdered.
The operative word here is: CHURCH. Yes, you and I, as individuals, are members of the church but individually we are not the church.
As I mentioned in my original post, many individuals and people groups protected the Jews from the Nazis. One person that comes to mind is Diedrich Bonhoeffer another was a small town in France Chambon-sur-Lignon. The townspeople were mostly Protestant Christians whose ancestors suffered centuries of persecution in Roman Catholic France. When the Jews asked for refuge, Chambon-sur-Lignon gave it. So, yes, you are correct in stating that many individuals and groups have contributed significantly to the cause of protecting the unborn child.
Let me see if I can be more specific in explaining my original thesis. In doing so I believe the conclusion will be self-evident from answers given or answers not given to a few of the following questions.
There are hundreds of churches represented in this "Christian Chat Forum" So I am looking for two or maybe three church pastors or church leaders That can answer a few questions.
1) Does your church have a ministry that informs; and trains. and is actively involved in reducing the death of innocent human beings in your local community?
2) Does your church have an active plan to help reduce abortions in your community? Please share that plan with us and tell us how you promote and implement it. Give us some success stories.
3) How many members of your congregation are trained in apologetics concerning abortions and are equipped to train and lead members of your church into your community to provide resources to combat the murdering of innocent human beings.

This last question is directed to all pastors and church leaders in the Christian chat community.
If you were asked to rate and rank your top 5 ministries in your church where would you rank your current ministry to impact the reduction of abortions in your community rank in that top five?

NOTE: Where was the church in Germany when God's chosen people were being obliterated?

Quid est veritas
Philos

 

[Dino246]

Since you feel strongly about this issue, it is your calling to do something about it. Don't dump your responsibility on others, and don't throw shade on others because they don't happen to think exactly as you do.

As for your "thesis", I hold that worshiping God is more important than ANYTHING else and therefore takes precedence at times. You're free to disagree.

 

[DRobinson]

"I don't understand how you reached this conclusion"
You assume that this is just my personal conclusion and not the conclusion of many others which reflects a lack of knowledge and research as it pertains to this thesis. Before I conclude this post I will show that the conclusion is so obvious that no other conclusion can be made.

"If you've been paying attention you know enthusiasm for the rights of the unborn is very high, in the US at least."
See my answer above. First of all, let me reiterate my thesis again: Why is the evangelical church in America and the Catholic Church so apathetic regarding the murdering of innocent human beings? As we sit in our comfortable churches every Sunday and listen to our Bible study lectures and sing our songs of praise hundreds if not thousands of precious human beings are being murdered.
The operative word here is: CHURCH. Yes, you and I, as individuals, are members of the church but individually we are not the church.
As I mentioned in my original post, many individuals and people groups protected the Jews from the Nazis. One person that comes to mind is Diedrich Bonhoeffer another was a small town in France Chambon-sur-Lignon. The townspeople were mostly Protestant Christians whose ancestors suffered centuries of persecution in Roman Catholic France. When the Jews asked for refuge, Chambon-sur-Lignon gave it. So, yes, you are correct in stating that many individuals and groups have contributed significantly to the cause of protecting the unborn child.
Let me see if I can be more specific in explaining my original thesis. In doing so I believe the conclusion will be self-evident from answers given or answers not given to a few of the following questions.
There are hundreds of churches represented in this "Christian Chat Forum" So I am looking for two or maybe three church pastors or church leaders That can answer a few questions.
1) Does your church have a ministry that informs; and trains. and is actively involved in reducing the death of innocent human beings in your local community?
2) Does your church have an active plan to help reduce abortions in your community? Please share that plan with us and tell us how you promote and implement it. Give us some success stories.
3) How many members of your congregation are trained in apologetics concerning abortions and are equipped to train and lead members of your church into your community to provide resources to combat the murdering of innocent human beings.

This last question is directed to all pastors and church leaders in the Christian chat community.
If you were asked to rate and rank your top 5 ministries in your church where would you rank your current ministry to impact the reduction of abortions in your community rank in that top five?

NOTE: Where was the church in Germany when God's chosen people were being obliterated?

Quid est veritas
Philos

What is "your church" doing?
What are you doing?
Abortion is not an issue in my community.
Our mission is to make disciples and teach them all things just as Jesus commanded us to do.

 

[Philos]

Since it appears no one wants to discuss this issue or provide a solution to fix this problem and have decided to make this a personal attack on me personally Concerning my involvement; for this one time only I will go down this rabbit hole.
It's amazing to me how such a serious issue gets such a feeble response from leadership in the church. Your presumptions are amazing and very selfish. You don't have a clue how actively involved I am in regards to this issue. Why are you so defensive?
This is part of the problem. no one wants to address this issue they just want to point fingers and take the pressure off of themselves and their lack of involvement regarding our church's involvement with such a serious problem.
If you don't want to be involved and participate in a discussion concerning how the church in America can get actively involved
in finding a solution to eliminate this modern-day Holocaust please don't attack those of us who are actively involved and doing a great deal to stop this. Just remain silent while the rest of us, independent of our church leadership Involvement, are passionate about ending abortion.

Since you made this personal I will share a personal experience with you. For the many years that I have been involved with the abortion issue as one of many areas of concern that encompass my apologetics ministry; one factor has encouraged me to continue struggling with this and other attacks on our faith and that is the incredible individuals and small groups and small organizations that are fighting the good fight yet finding strength in God's word and guidance from the Holy Spirit.
Some of the things that encourage me and bring me such joy, is seeing the passion of seasoned saints, new believers, and non-Christian seekers who so passionately respond in so many ways fighting this satanic battle which is just a modern-day worship of Baal.
Unfortunately, there is a very sad and discouraging side to this journey. It involves apathy, complacency, lack of concern for evangelism, not allowing for individual members ministry outside of the normally acceptable ministries, empty promises (lies?), lack of leadership, lack of vision, and failure to implement any type of ministry that would train the individual members for evangelizing the gospel as commanded by our Lord Jesus Christ; just to mention some of the misses.

In every case, encompassing many churches, through the years; not one church would allow me to utilize my God-given spiritual gifts to establish a permanent apologetics ministry which includes training and tactics to witness and share the gospel with nonbelievers (atheists, cults, and those holding non-Christian worldviews).
The issue of an abortion presentation ( A Make Abortion Unthinkable series from BIOLA) was approved but was given no promotion and only a few showed up ultimately was canceled due to schedule conflicts and lack of promotion.
I will wrap this up by asking Dino 246 a question. It appears this is not a priority of yours but I will ask my question anyway.
Why isn't this Baal worship a priority for you and your church?
As per your comment: As for your "thesis", I hold that worshiping God is more important than ANYTHING else and therefore takes precedence at times. Yes, I do disagree With your statement "that worshiping God is more important than anything else"
Yes worshiping God is critically important in working out our salvation however, I think the marching orders that our Christ gave us is probably the most important mission that we have and that is:
Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[fn] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Tools teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”
Matthew 28: 19-20

Postscript: If no one wants to discuss and/or offer suggestions concerning this thesis I can and will delete it if so requested.
Honestly, I have to admit that this is probably the response that I would receive by posting this thesis. Therefore, if you don't want to discuss it and you want to have finger-pointing then I will delete it

Quid est Veritas...Philos

 

[DRobinson]

Since it appears no one wants to discuss this issue or provide a solution to fix this problem and have decided to make this a personal attack on me personally Concerning my involvement; for this one time only I will go down this rabbit hole.
It's amazing to me how such a serious issue gets such a feeble response from leadership in the church. Your presumptions are amazing and very selfish. You don't have a clue how actively involved I am in regards to this issue. Why are you so defensive?
This is part of the problem. no one wants to address this issue they just want to point fingers and take the pressure off of themselves and their lack of involvement regarding our church's involvement with such a serious problem.
If you don't want to be involved and participate in a discussion concerning how the church in America can get actively involved
in finding a solution to eliminate this modern-day Holocaust please don't attack those of us who are actively involved and doing a great deal to stop this. Just remain silent while the rest of us, independent of our church leadership Involvement, are passionate about ending abortion.

Since you made this personal I will share a personal experience with you. For the many years that I have been involved with the abortion issue as one of many areas of concern that encompass my apologetics ministry; one factor has encouraged me to continue struggling with this and other attacks on our faith and that is the incredible individuals and small groups and small organizations that are fighting the good fight yet finding strength in God's word and guidance from the Holy Spirit.
Some of the things that encourage me and bring me such joy, is seeing the passion of seasoned saints, new believers, and non-Christian seekers who so passionately respond in so many ways fighting this satanic battle which is just a modern-day worship of Baal.
Unfortunately, there is a very sad and discouraging side to this journey. It involves apathy, complacency, lack of concern for evangelism, not allowing for individual members ministry outside of the normally acceptable ministries, empty promises (lies?), lack of leadership, lack of vision, and failure to implement any type of ministry that would train the individual members for evangelizing the gospel as commanded by our Lord Jesus Christ; just to mention some of the misses.

In every case, encompassing many churches, through the years; not one church would allow me to utilize my God-given spiritual gifts to establish a permanent apologetics ministry which includes training and tactics to witness and share the gospel with nonbelievers (atheists, cults, and those holding non-Christian worldviews).
The issue of an abortion presentation ( A Make Abortion Unthinkable series from BIOLA) was approved but was given no promotion and only a few showed up ultimately was canceled due to schedule conflicts and lack of promotion.
I will wrap this up by asking Dino 246 a question. It appears this is not a priority of yours but I will ask my question anyway.
Why isn't this Baal worship a priority for you and your church?
As per your comment: As for your "thesis", I hold that worshiping God is more important than ANYTHING else and therefore takes precedence at times. Yes, I do disagree With your statement "that worshiping God is more important than anything else"
Yes worshiping God is critically important in working out our salvation however, I think the marching orders that our Christ gave us is probably the most important mission that we have and that is:
Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[fn] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Tools teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”
Matthew 28: 19-20

Postscript: If no one wants to discuss and/or offer suggestions concerning this thesis I can and will delete it if so requested.
Honestly, I have to admit that this is probably the response that I would receive by posting this thesis. Therefore, if you don't want to discuss it and you want to have finger-pointing then I will delete it

Quid est Veritas...Philos

If you are actively involved that is great, but do not condemn those of us who see a greater need in our community.
Our greatest need is the lost so that is where we place our limited resources.
Each church and community is different, has different needs and problems.
As for as offering suggestions I can only suggest that you do as some in our state has done.
Get the state government to place very strict limits on abortion.
It is next to impossible to get an abortion in my home state.

 

[DRobinson]

In the late 1930s and early 1940s Nazi Germany was persecuting and implementing a genocidal plan to exterminate the Jewish race.
Their modus operandi, with the help of Joseph Gobbels propaganda machine, postulated that the root cause of Germany's problems was being caused by a subhuman race they labeled the "Jews". Since they were labeled a subhuman species this supposedly justified their genocide.
Although there were many Germans who did not believe the propaganda and even hid and protected many Jews, to the peril of their own lives if caught, The majority of the German population either supported, allowed, or ignored this persecution. This included the Anglican, Lutheran, Catholic and other churches. To this day adolf Hitler was never excommunicated from the Catholic Church and in fact the Catholic Church was the main player in the Rat line for the escaping of Nazi leaders at the end of the war.
My thesis is this: Why is the evangelical church in America and the Catholic Church being so apathetic in regard to the murdering of innocent human beings? As we sit in our comfortable churches every Sunday and listen to our Bible study lectures and sing our songs of praise hundreds if not thousands of precious human beings are being murdered.

Something you need to know---
There are very few local churches today.
Most are nothing more than religious organizations.
The Catholic being the largest and most wicked.
And sadly most who claim to be Christians don't have a clue what that means.