Ask away.. I am willing to answer any question any about my biblical beliefs

[shroom2]

Shroom you are right, but going back and forth with a Calvinist is fruitless. They do not even serve the God of the Bible. Explaining the truth to a Calvinist is like telling a Muslim, that Muhammad, is not a true prophet of God, or telling a JW that Jesus is the Savior, or a Mormon that the Book of Mormon is not scripture. It is really just vain jangling. They will never listen, and only falsely accuse you of not understanding the word.

I am not as quick to write them (zone, strangelove, et al) off as you are, 4runner. I'm certainly not going to tell them they are worshiping the wrong God.

Not everyone has full truth (I am not claiming I do, nor do I believe you have it). I believe predestination is wrong. But I believe they are Christian, and they are doing their best trying to serve God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

People need to learn, and grow. Including me and you.

 

[jimmydiggs]

Not everyone god calls responds. This disprove predestination, and irresistible grace

No, it just proves the Preseverance of the Saints.


If God creates someone knowing their every move, how do you propose that they can do anything different?

 

[4runner]

No, it just proves the Preseverance of the Saints.

That too

If God creates someone knowing their every move, how do you propose that they can do anything different?

Knowing something will happen, and causing it to happen is far from the same thing.

Also knowing something, and willing it are two different things. God will that ALL be saved

 

[Grandpa]

Shroom you are right, but going back and forth with a Calvinist is fruitless. They do not even serve the God of the Bible. Explaining the truth to a Calvinist is like telling a Muslim, that Muhammad, is not a true prophet of God, or telling a JW that Jesus is the Savior, or a Mormon that the Book of Mormon is not scripture. It is really just vain jangling. They will never listen, and only falsely accuse you of not understanding the word.

A calvinist knows God is Big. A calvinist knows that God is omniscient, all knowing and sovereign. You can tell a calvinist that God is in fact small but you are correct, a calvinist will not believe this. You and 100 of your friends can tell a calvinist that God needs our help to save us, but yet the calvinist will not believe you or your 100 friends. Because the calvinist knows that God is sovereign and powerful to save. The calvinist knows that there is nothing inherently good in him and only the Sovereign Lord is good and He does what He wills.

All people who think God is small think God needs their help save to save them and others. People who think God is small need people to be powerful. But we know people are not powerful, don't we? Deep down don't we know that only God is powerful and He does what He wills? Don't we all know that the Lord Jesus is the Author and Finisher of salvation?

You don't tell God that you have free will and those are the rules that God has to live by. God tells you what is what and those are the rules you have to live by. The clay does not say to the Potter, "why have you made me this way?". Nobody is in the position to say to God "What doest thou?".

 

[shroom2]

If God creates someone knowing their every move...

Does He?

Gen 2:19) And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

Gen 22:12) And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

Gen 6:
5) And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6) And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
7) And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

 

[shroom2]

A calvinist knows God is Big. A calvinist knows that God is omniscient, all knowing and sovereign. You can tell a calvinist that God is in fact small but you are correct, a calvinist will not believe this. You and 100 of your friends can tell a calvinist that God needs our help to save us, but yet the calvinist will not believe you or your 100 friends. Because the calvinist knows that God is sovereign and powerful to save. The calvinist knows that there is nothing inherently good in him and only the Sovereign Lord is good and He does what He wills.

All people who think God is small think God needs their help save to save them and others. People who think God is small need people to be powerful. But we know people are not powerful, don't we? Deep down don't we know that only God is powerful and He does what He wills? Don't we all know that the Lord Jesus is the Author and Finisher of salvation?

You don't tell God that you have free will and those are the rules that God has to live by. God tells you what is what and those are the rules you have to live by. The clay does not say to the Potter, "why have you made me this way?". Nobody is in the position to say to God "What doest thou?".

A calvinist does not understand God's love, or what His purpose was in creating man. God is a FATHER who desired children that would freely love Him, not a puppetmaster.

 

[jimmydiggs]

That too

Preserverence of the Saints is the P in TULIP.

So you agree with the P?

Knowing something will happen, and causing it to happen is far from the same thing.

If God were human, yes. God is not human though. God knows past present and future. Please, if God knows the future, can the future be any different?



Also knowing something, and willing it are two different things.[/quote]

29

Are not two sparrows sold for a penny?[a] And not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father.

Remember when the news had a bunch of stories about animals dieing off, especially birds and fish.

Not one of them floated to the surface, or fell from the sky, apart from our father.

I know this is hard to accept. I know it's tempting to try and somehow say, "but we aren't birds and fish." I didn't like Calvinism either. I sometimes still don't. I accept it because the bible compels me to. It does seem unfair. I completely understand.

God will that ALL be saved

All of the elect.

 

[jimmydiggs]

and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

Are you proposing that God didn't know something?

 

[jimmydiggs]

A calvinist does not understand God's love,

God's love is magnified under Calvinism. We didn't chose God. He chose us. We are like a box of kittens on the side of the road, and he chose us. He didn't choose us because we had anything to bring to the table. He certainly didn't chose us because we were good people. He certainly didn't chose us because we could save ourselves. He certainly didn't chose us because we were rich, powerful, wise, or had something he needed. God Unconditionally Elected us. Arminianism prefers conditional election.

Do you think God has conditional love, or unconditional love?

or what His purpose was in creating man.

To Glorify himself. To glorify his mercy, his wrath, his justice, his love...

God is a FATHER who desired children that would freely love Him, not a puppetmaster.

To divest Human Responsibility from God's Soveirgnty requires a demonstration from you that God's Soveirgnty under Calvinism precludes Man's responsibility. This is a burdon of proof none can manage.

 

[shroom2]

Are you proposing that God didn't know something?

God knows everything that is available to know. But He created us in His image as free will beings, with the ability to think, reason, make decisions, love, have emotions, etc. If we have free will, He cannot know choices we will make before we make them. He rejoices when people make the right decisions (prodigal son parable). How can He rejoice if He already knew you were gonna do it? He is not pleased, or is sad, when people decide wrongly.

That said, He IS God, and He has a plan, which will absolutely come to pass.

He is a wonderful God.

 

[shroom2]

God's love is magnified under Calvinism.

What if you want to love God, but He decreed you to destruction?

That is not logical.

 

[jimmydiggs]

God knows everything that is available to know. But He created us in His image as free will beings, with the ability to think, reason, make decisions, love, have emotions, etc. If we have free will, He cannot know choices we will make before we make them. He rejoices when people make the right decisions (prodigal son parable). How can He rejoice if He already knew you were gonna do it? He is not pleased, or is sad, when people decide wrongly.

That said, He IS God, and He has a plan, which will absolutely come to pass.

He is a wonderful God.

So if God has a plan, but he doesn't know the choices we will make, isn't he constantly editing his plan? He lays it out, finalizes, and then Jonah refuses to go to Ninevah. Isn't that what you're proposing?

This smells a lot like open theism.

You believe that God limits his own knowledge, or that he simply isn't able to know it?

 

[jimmydiggs]

What if you want to love God, but He decreed you to destruction?

That is not logical.

No one wants to love God when they are unregenerate. Doctrine of Total Depravity.

In our most basic nature as humans, we hate God. We are so afflicted by the effects of sin (noetic effects) that we chase sin, and run from God. The Holy Spirit has to enter into us and change us. The HS has to soften the heart.

I have seen this happen time and time again, where I presented a logical argument for God's existance, and the person agrees with the premises until they see the conclusion, then almost immediately they reject the premises.

 

[Grandpa]

A calvinist does not understand God's love, or what His purpose was in creating man. God is a FATHER who desired children that would freely love Him, not a puppetmaster.

A calvinist knows that God defines love. There is no love outside of God. How can you love witout experiencing love?

You are placing your hopes onto what you wish God will do and won't do. The closest we will get to knowing what God wants and doesn't want is knowing we can't know. His ways are higher than our ways. His thoughts are higher than our thoughts.

 

[shroom2]

So if God has a plan, but he doesn't know the choices we will make, isn't he constantly editing his plan? He lays it out, finalizes, and then Jonah refuses to go to Ninevah. Isn't that what you're proposing?

Regarding individuals, yes. We have a relationship with God. We walk with Him, doing our best to renew our minds to his word. He obviously knows what is best.

But His plan, the final salvation of man, the destruction of evil, everything prophesied, will come to pass.

This smells a lot like open theism.

I don't know what that is. This forum is king of labels.

You believe that God limits his own knowledge, or that he simply isn't able to know it?

I don't believe God plays games with Himself.

 

[jimmydiggs]

Regarding individuals, yes. We have a relationship with God. We walk with Him, doing our best to renew our minds to his word. He obviously knows what is best.

But His plan, the final salvation of man, the destruction of evil, everything prophesied, will come to pass.

So God edits his plan, because we make choices that foul it up? Is this where we just limit his plan to something that is only a part of the whole?

I don't know what that is. This forum is king of labels.

Open theism says that God limits his foreknowledge to allow for human freedom.

I don't believe God plays games with Himself.

So then he knows all things past present and future, that are logically possible to know?

 

[jimmydiggs]

Also, could you please comment on this.


1 John 3:20 (ESV)
20 for whenever our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and he knows everything.

 

[4runner]

Ok thats enough with the Calvinism bull. This thread is not about the delusions of John Calvin who himself was a heretic and murderer.

Lets move on to another subject. Unless of course you people want to prove again you have no respect for others.

Does anybody got a question that has nothing to do with Calvin, Calvinism, or deformed, umm I mean reformed heresy, umm I mean theology?

 

[Strangelove]

Ok thats enough with the Calvinism bull. This thread is not about the delusions of John Calvin who himself was a heretic and murderer.

Lets move on to another subject. Unless of course you people want to prove again you have no respect for others.

Does anybody got a question that has nothing to do with Calvin, Calvinism, or deformed, umm I mean reformed heresy, umm I mean theology?

Yes....what is your BIBLICAL belief regarding the motion/non-motion of the Earth?

Is it stationary?

 

[4runner]

Preserverence of the Saints is the P in TULIP.

So you agree with the P?

No every doctrine of Calvinism is satanic, including the P or OSAS. It is totally satanic.