The Kerygma - God's Requirement for Salvation

[Cameron143]

You seem to believe an individual can simply hear the word of God preached and believe.

yes exactly I believe human beings are designed by God to operate , learn and develope bY means of true information conveyed through words from God to man. And believes it’s been tbat way since the beginning of time.

“ I don't believe this based on what the word of God teaches concerning the spiritual estate of the unredeemed. “

brother I’ve never read anything in the Bible about “ the spiritual state of the unredeemed “ I must have missed that part

ive read tbat the redeemer has come to Zion and sent his salvation out to all the world great and small beginning at Jerusalem and whoever shall call upon his name in truth shall be saved

when you say “ the unredeemed “ do you mean all sinners before they accept the redeemer hear and believe the gospel ?

Read Ephesians 2:1-3.
Read Jeremiah 17:9.
Read Romans 3:10-18.
Read Matthew 16 and ask yourself why God builds the church through revelation.
At any rate, I don't think we are going to come to a concensus. Appreciate the conversation. Grace and peace.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Read Ephesians 2:1-3.
Read Jeremiah 17:9.
Read Romans 3:10-18.
Read Matthew 16 and ask yourself why God builds the church through revelation.
At any rate, I don't think we are going to come to a concensus. Appreciate the conversation. Grace and peace.

I have red all those but I don’t reject everything else though

 

[Cameron143]

I have red all those but I don’t reject everything else though

Neither do I. But I have to reconcile them in some way. I merely explained how I do so.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Neither do I. But I have to reconcile them in some way. I merely explained how I do so.

alright brother I’m dizzy at this point lol carry on

 

[Kroogz]

What is problematic is that "firstfruits" means the first person to resurrect and translate to heaven. Perhaps Enoch was a type or OT foreshadowing of Christ? What happened to Lazarus? I guess we can add 1 Kings‬ ‭17:20-24‬ ‭to the discussion, although perhaps the boy was merely revived or resuscitated.

Enoch wasn't translated to heaven. He was translated to paradise. After Christ's death and resurrection, those in paradise were led to heaven. Lazarus was resuscitated.

Eph 4:8~~Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

 

[GWH]

Enoch wasn't translated to heaven. He was translated to paradise. After Christ's death and resurrection, those in paradise were led to heaven. Lazarus was resuscitated.

Eph 4:8~~Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

That explanation might resolve the problem. Thanks!

 

[Magenta]

Am I the only one who finds the translation of Enoch and the resurrection of Lazarus
to be problematic, because Paul calls Christ's resurrection the "firstfruits" in 1CR 15:20?

Firstfruits to eternal life?

 

[Cameron143]

Firstfruits to eternal life?

Firstfruit of the new humanity.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

"far more"???

Are you not the person who claims that this grace is limited to the pre-ordained chosen few mentioned in Matthew 22:14?

If the gospel is not offered universally to mankind then the gospel is by nature "far less".

Amen the gospel is the power of God to save souls that are otherwise lost can save anyone who believes

“For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; ( that’s why he calls it grace ) to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Pretty gracious offer of salvstion really and definately offered to all creatires from all nations

“For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,”
‭‭Titus‬ ‭2:11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Magenta]

“For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; ( that’s why he calls it grace ) to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The part that says it is the power of God to salvation to all who believe... you seem to turn it into
the power of God to those who do not believe, as well. I have noticed others doing this too.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Firstfruits to eternal life?

He’s referring to this I believe

“For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:22-23‬ ‭

And probably

“And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead;

that in all things he might have the preeminence.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭1:18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He’s understanding this to mean possibly “ no one else could ever have been raised because it says Jesus is the firstborn from among the dead “

just a guess and that’s causing conundrum for him with other people being raised up from the dead by him before that ….I think is the point but he’s always been able and present and speaking

“See now that I, even I, am he, And there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: Neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭32:39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

Yea, before the day was I am he; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work, and who shall let it? Thus saith the LORD, your redeemer, the Holy One of Israel;
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭43:10-11, 13‬-14‭KJV‬‬

“Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: but in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

..And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.

To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. …..For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:34-35, 42-44, 46-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The part that says it is the power of God to salvation to all who believe... you seem to turn it into
the power of God to those who do not believe, as well. I have noticed others doing this too.

How so sister ?

“the power of God to salvation to all who believe... you seem to turn it into
the power of God to those who do not believe, as well.”

ive said throughout that believing the gospel is the only requirement…..should be evident throughout not sure how you came to that conclusion regarding me .

 

[GWH]

He’s referring to this I believe

“For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:22-23‬ ‭

And probably

“And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead;

that in all things he might have the preeminence.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭1:18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He’s understanding this to mean possibly “ no one else could ever have been raised because it says Jesus is the firstborn from among the dead “

just a guess and that’s causing conundrum for him with other people being raised up from the dead by him before that ….I think is the point but he’s always been able and present and speaking

“See now that I, even I, am he, And there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: Neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭32:39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

Yea, before the day was I am he; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work, and who shall let it? Thus saith the LORD, your redeemer, the Holy One of Israel;
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭43:10-11, 13‬-14‭KJV‬‬

“Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: but in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

..And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.

To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. …..For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:34-35, 42-44, 46-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Thanks Pilgrim,

It is gratifying to be understood around here! :^)

 

[GWH]

The part that says it is the power of God to salvation to all who believe... you seem to turn it into
the power of God to those who do not believe, as well. I have noticed others doing this too.

God's truth is a double-edged sword (HB 4:12), dividing humanity into those who believe and those who reject GW. Cf. LK 12:51-53.

 

[HeIsHere]

yes exactly I believe human beings are designed by God to operate , learn and develope bY means of true information conveyed through words from God to man. And believes it’s been that way since the beginning of time.

I am glad you believe what you believe and you defend it well, however it also objectively true and completely biblical.

Anyone who preaches "irresistible grace prior to salvation" "gifted belief" 'regeneration before belief" is outside of what scripture teaches.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I am glad you believe what you believe and you defend it well, however it also objectively true and completely biblical.

Anyone who preaches "irresistible grace prior to salvation" "gifted belief" 'regeneration before belief" is outside of what scripture teaches.

Yes I agree . Gods grace is part of his character it’s always been there towards man he loves us like children

Notice even Noah God looked first at him with grace and then he told Noah the truth of what was about to come upon the world and instructed him how to be saved from it .

“But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

then God informed him how to be saved from the end to come
God will never change he’s always been full of grace and always speaks truth but that’s what he does he speaks to man and invites our belief in him .

“And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:16-17‬ ‭

Grace and faith Conrad rom grace and truth and ends on salvation for anyone and everyone

everyone and anyone can be saved were all guilty of sin and can all be saved from it by the lord if we don’t continually make up reasons why no one can do it they can’t choose thier incapable

we’re all incapable now and the gospel is the only thing that can make us capable from the worst of us to the best we can all be saved if we believe and don’t blind ourselves to truth

 

[Beckworth]

To believe on the Lord Jesus Christ

That’s only the beginning. James 2:24–“…not by faith only.”

 

[Beckworth]

Oh, I'm certain that God disagrees with me, on quite a few topics. But here's the thing friend. When he's ready, and if its necessary, He'll straighten me out. Always has. Always will.

You see, I'm not of the mind that you and I have to agree on everything to be brothers in Christ. Or that its my job to bring you over to my side. That's Gods job.

And while you may be correct. And you absolutely may be, or maybe you're so totally off base that the Good Lord is just sitting up there shaking His head. Either way, I'll tell you what He's not doing. He's not wagging His finger at you, or me.

I'm going to heaven, heck, heaven is here right now, right inside of me. And it might be inside of you. I don't know. What I do know is that Jesus Christ gave me a new heart and a new mind, a living Spirit. And He did every bit of this months before I was baptized.

Now if the gifts of the Lord are without repentance. And they are. Jesus was mine from that moment forward, and I was His.

I walked an isle and said all the right things when I was 10. I got a bible and warm bath. And that's all I got. I confessed with my mouth and even got baptized, but I did not believe in my heart. No salvation in that. 13 years later. Called out to the heavens. Pull me out of this pit and I will serve you all my days. And He did. Even when He knew I wouldn't keep my end of the bargain till many years later.
Did my faith save me? Nope. Did my prayer save me? Nope. Did baptism save me? Again, no.

My friend, my brother. Christ saved me. Christ pulled me out of the pit. Christ gave me a new life. Christ is the reason, all that He did, all that He is now doing on my behalf, that is what saved me, and is keeping me saved. Christ washed me in His blood. Christ baptized me with His Spirit. And yes, as I said, I eventually went down to the river. But I had been walking in the Spirit and proclaiming the Gospel months before that happened.

Romans 6:3-4 - Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.

1 Corinthians 12:13
13 For we were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.

Acts 11:16
16 Then I remembered what the Lord had said: ‘John baptized withwater, but you will be baptized withthe Holy Spirit.’

Peace.

I would advise you to read and study the New Tesrament. It is the “mind of Christ.” 1 Cor 2:16. It does not teach what you believe. God gave us the Bible for a reason. It is our guide, our “road map “ for how to get to heaven. God has not left it up to us to decide how we want to get there or what we want to believe. It is important to listen to what Christ and His apostles taught. John 12:48 Jesus said “The word I have spoken shall judge you in the last day.” And if you reject what He says, you will be judged by that same word that you rejected.
It doesn’t matter what you or I think; all that matters is what God (Jesus) says in His book. 2 John 9 warns us that if we do not abide in the doctrine of Jesus, God will not be with us. And we have a picture of that in Matthew 7 where Jesus told those religious people on the day of judgement— leave me; I was never with you.

Regardless of what you believe, not every religious person is going to be saved. The Bible is abundantly clear on this. Jesus has all authority and He is very specific on who is going to heaven and how. It’s His after all; he has every right to make conditions and commandments and to have the final say as to who goes. It’s not with in man to direct his own steps and again He says do not lean on your own understanding. Become a student of “the book” and obey its teachings. Otherwise, you are on sinking sand!

 

[GWH]

B and P are discussing exactly the question I posted on the Apologetics thread. Can y’all agree on what we must agree on in order to fellowship as siblings in Christ?

 

[HeIsHere]

we’re all incapable now and the gospel is the only thing that can make us capable from the worst of us to the best we can all be saved if we believe and don’t blind ourselves to truth

Agree and well stated.

It is wrong to blame man’s rejection of the gospel on God, which is inevitable, logical conclusion if one's teach all men are born with hardened hearts by God eternal decree and therefore can do nothing other than reject His gracious offers of forgiveness unless granted belief.

That is not the God of scripture, not even close.
2 Peter 3:9: "The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance".

If God has to grant/bequeath belief because the truth of the Gospel is powerless and men are so deranged in their minds beyond redemption unless He acts unilaterally, then there is no need to be longsuffering is there?