Understanding God’s election

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Genez

Genez

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brightfame52 said:
@Genez



No he is not, a natural man has a moral conscience governing right and wrong, duh, nevertheless,the natural man is dead to God dead in sin, alienated from the life of God and spiritually blind and ignorant Eph 4 18

Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
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"Dead to God."
But, not dead to being curious about God.

Weren't you at one time dead to God?
I was too.

So?
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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Genez said:
"Dead to God."
But, not dead to being curious about God.

Weren't you at one time dead to God?
I was too.

So?
Click to expand...
The interest was the drawing of God since none are in their fallen estate seeking after God.
 
Genez

Genez

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Rufus said:
Yes, God knew who would receive Christ because he predestined them in eternity for salvation.

And you're taking 2Pet 3:9 and 1Tim 2:4 out of context. In the former passage, Peter is saying that God does not want any of his readers (the ELECT) to perish. (Pay careful attention to personal pronouns in that passage.) And in the latter passage, Paul is referring to the Gentiles.
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​

All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me, I will never drive away. ​
For I have come down from heaven not to do my will, but to do the will of him who sent me. ​
And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, ​
but raise them up at the last day." John 6:37-39​


The drawing process takes time.
If it were irresistible?
That would not be the case!

Now, on the other hand?
The Rapture?
That can not be resisted!
In a twinkling of an eye - instantly gone!


"The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. ​
Instead, he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone ​
to come to repentance" 2 Peter 3:9​

If no time were needed for a person's volition to make a decision?
It would not be slow in appearance.
We would be just zapped into salvation instantly!

By the way....

Repentance means?
Having a change of mind.
Hence? ................."Volition."

Please don't be slow on getting this.
Don't use your volition to find ways to resist the truth you were just presented.

A TULIP bed is for the dead.


:coffee::coffee::coffee::unsure:
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

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Cameron143 said:
I was simply answering the question you asked. I never said we can know if a person is saved. We can't see their heart. But that wasn't your question. You asked about why one is saved and another is not. My response does answer that question.
Click to expand...

This was my question:
So then tell me why does the Spirit do it for some and not others?

This is you answer:
The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”[d]

So you think this statement is Christ Jesus telling Nicodemus that Spirit of God regenerates first whomever it wants to in a mysterious unpredictible fashion like the wind?

I just want to you to be clear.
 
Magenta

Magenta

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Cameron143 said:
Excellent point.
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Unless they are universalists... but I doubt that. Also, Jesus plainly speaks of those with ears to hear, and obviously that is not everyone, either ... and ears need to be circumcised... who does that? Only His sheep hear His voice... who are they?
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

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Genez said:
epentance means?
Having a change of mind.
Hence? ................."Volition."

Please don't be slow on getting this.
Don't use your volition to find ways to resist the truth you were just presented.

A TULIP bed is for the dead.


:coffee::coffee::coffee::unsure:
Click to expand...


It was never alive, nor life giving in my mind, but you make a solid argument for sure.

It really is in the land of non nonsensical, that repentance is non-volitional and non-personal.
 
Genez

Genez

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Cameron143 said:
The interest was the drawing of God since none are in their fallen estate seeking after God.
Click to expand...

During the drawing, God wants them to become interested to find out what this unexplainable supernatural effect means.
I know I was.

It is why some switch, and enter into witchcraft.
Or, astrology, numerology, etc.

Many evils men choose for were in reaction to their personal rejecting the drawing of God.
Please, look at Romans 1:18-23 to see what I mean by that.

.............
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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Magenta said:
Unless they are universalists... but I doubt that. Also, Jesus plainly speaks of those with ears to hear, and obviously that is not everyone, either ... and ears need to be circumcised... who does that? Only His sheep hear His voice... who are they?
Click to expand...
See...now you are causing trouble again including the full counsel of scripture.
 
cv5

cv5

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Magenta said:
If they say everyone hears and Scripture says all who hear will live, clearly there is a disconnect.
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All who CHOOSE to "tune in" and stay "tuned in" will live. Thats for sure.
Because they decide to seize onto the knowledge of the truth and rest in faith pressing into the Kingdom trusting that God's promises are sure.

Because.....THEY COME TO KNOW THAT GOD IS GOOD.
 
cv5

cv5

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HeIsHere said:
This was my question:
So then tell me why does the Spirit do it for some and not others?

This is you answer:
The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”[d]

So you think this statement is Christ Jesus telling Nicodemus that Spirit of God regenerates first whomever it wants to in a mysterious unpredictible fashion like the wind?

I just want to you to be clear.
Click to expand...
Probably has something do with unwillingness aka being self-willed.

[2Pe 2:10 NKJV]
and especially those who walk according to the flesh in the lust of uncleanness and despise authority. [They are] presumptuous, self-willed. They are not afraid to speak evil of dignitaries,

The KJV translates Strong's G829 in the following manner: self-willed (2x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]
  1. self-pleasing, self-willed, arrogant
 
Magenta

Magenta

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HeIsHere said:
That is the myth that has been sold and it is not true, it is very clear that Paul by the use of specific gender of his words was not including faith as a gift and this contradicts Jesus which Paul would never do.
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Scripture plainly says everything you have is a gift from God.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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Genez said:
During the drawing, God wants them to become interested to find out what this unexplainable supernatural effect means.
I know I was.

It is why some switch, and enter into witchcraft.
Or, astrology, numerology, etc.

Many evils men choose for were in reaction to their personal rejecting the drawing of God.
Please, look at Romans 1:18-23 to see what I mean by that.

.............
Click to expand...
When God draws He reveals Jesus. He isn't revealing a plethora of things, and He's definitely not revealing evil.
What is spoken of in Romans 1 is general revelation through nature and conscience and providence. This is different from revelation given directly to an individual.
 
cv5

cv5

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Genez said:
"Dead to God."
But, not dead to being curious about God.

Weren't you at one time dead to God?
I was too.

So?
Click to expand...
I think that there is much to do with a willful choice of BELIEVING the lies of Satan rather than coming to the knowledge of the Truth.
This Truth being available to all who seek it.

All who are WILLING to seek God's face will find Him.
 
cv5

cv5

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Magenta said:
Scripture plainly says everything you have is a gift from God.
Click to expand...
Of course they are.

And some CHOOSE to despise and then refuse to accept the atonement provided by the GIFT of the Lamb of God.
And you thought that gifts could not be refused?

Wrestle with that conundrum oh ye Calvinites.
 
cv5

cv5

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cv5 said:
Of course they are.

And some CHOOSE to despise and then refuse to accept the atonement provided by the GIFT of the Lamb of God.
And you thought that gifts could not be refused?

Wrestle with that conundrum oh ye Calvinites.
Click to expand...
Same goes for marriage covenants. They can likewise be refused.
 
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