Understanding God’s election

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cv5

cv5

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Genez said:
Fallen angels can no longer physically reproduce with humans.
Click to expand...
Procreation per se not necessarily required.
Mark of the beast........use your imagination.
Think the Judas phenomenon as well.
 
Genez

Genez

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cv5 said:
Procreation per se not necessarily required.
Mark of the beast........use your imagination.
Think the Judas phenomenon as well.
Click to expand...
I believe you are missing my point...

But, that's OK.
 
cv5

cv5

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Genez said:
I believe you are missing my point...

But, that's OK.
Click to expand...
Sorry but I am in the middle of a football game. What is your point again?
 
Genez

Genez

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ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
Did they get a vasectomy? Castrated?
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As punishment, they have been denied being able to physically materialize...

That is why they now crave to possess a body.

Look at the herd of swine.
Even a swine was fine!
 
C

ChristRoseFromTheDead

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Genez said:
As punishment, they have been denied being able to physically materialize...

That is why they now crave to possess a body.

Look at the herd of swine.
Even a swine was fine!
Click to expand...
What evidence is there that they have ever been able to physically materialize?
 
G

GWH

Groovy
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Inquisitor said:
Your argument fails on the grounds of the flood of Noah's era.

All died apart from Noah's family and only Noah was chosen to be saved.

There is nothing redeemable in humanity.

God's love for His creation is the fundamental reason for our salvation.

We were already dead when Christ died for us and we are still dead in Christ.

The only life, redemption, fruit, works, belongs to Christ's reconciliation and the Holy Spirit within us.

By grace through faith and nothing of ourselves, means we are not capable of anything
approaching righteousness in ourselves.

The real truth is love was a gift of the Holy Spirit because we do not love others.

The gospel itself, Christ alone, should be idiot proof, but we have found ways to even undermine
Christ's sovereignty.
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Re "By grace through faith and nothing of ourselves, means we are not capable of anything
approaching righteousness in ourselves.": No, "through faith" means God gives us the capability of either accepting or rejecting His grace (DT 30:19), which makes us accountable/culpable for sin and harmonizes God's justice with all-lovingness.
 
R

rogerg

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GWH said:
Re "By grace through faith and nothing of ourselves, means we are not capable of anything
approaching righteousness in ourselves.": No, "through faith" means God gives us the capability of either accepting or rejecting His grace (DT 30:19), which makes us accountable/culpable for sin and harmonizes God's justice with all-lovingness.
Click to expand...
No - that is NOT what it says. You are misrepresenting the clear intent of the verse. It does not mention any "capability" or the need for it on our part, whatsoever. You've incorrectly added that doctrine to it in a ham-handed and obvious manner. What it does state, and mean, however, is that "by grace ye ARE ye saved" (in the present tense) - all given freely by God through His grace with no outside contribution to it needed nor possible (otherwise salvation wouldn't/couldn't be a gift of/from God) - which interpretation, the surrounding verses clearly corroborate. It does not state that "ye might be saved if ..." as though God, of Himself, was incapable of bringing the "gift" (salvation) to its fruition solely by Jesus Christ. Grace, bestowed unconditionally by God, is received by those whom He had predestined for it.
 
G

GWH

Groovy
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rogerg said:
No - that is NOT what it says. You are misrepresenting the clear intent of the verse. It does not mention any "capability" or the need for it on our part, whatsoever. You've incorrectly added that doctrine to it in a ham-handed and obvious manner. What it does state, and mean, however, is that "by grace ye ARE ye saved" (in the present tense) - all given freely by God through His grace with no outside contribution to it needed nor possible (otherwise salvation wouldn't/couldn't be a gift of/from God) - which interpretation, the surrounding verses clearly corroborate. It does not state that "ye might be saved if ..." as though God, of Himself, was incapable of bringing the "gift" (salvation) to its fruition solely by Jesus Christ. Grace, bestowed unconditionally by God, is received by those whom He had predestined for it.
Click to expand...
On Christmas morning will you have the capability of accepting gifts offered to you? Do you pay any attention to the beautiful wrapping paper? (DT 30:19)

I love ham for Christmas dinner!
 
R

rogerg

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GWH said:
On Christmas morning will you have the capability of accepting gifts offered to you? Do you pay any attention to the beautiful wrapping paper? (DT 30:19)

I love ham for Christmas dinner!
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Are you evaluating the gift of God by the standard of gifts given by man? God's gift of salvation doesn't need opening to be received -
that we (must) receive it in its fullness, is also a part of the gift.

And yes, I love ham too.
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

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Inquisitor said:
Popcorn softens the tone.

This debate has been raging for centuries.

One day we will get a resolution.
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It is not really a debate. It is an attempt to extinguish the personal Gospel of Christ Jesus. It is in fact the constant need to fight against this attempt.

Can you imagine if this was the prevailing doctrine.

"Jesus died on the cross for some people now you wait and see if God picks you, it is kinda like the wind it just goes about and it just happens, POOF!!.... keep hoping it might come your way."

How would anyone get saved?
 
cv5

cv5

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Genez said:
As punishment, they have been denied being able to physically materialize...

That is why they now crave to possess a body.

Look at the herd of swine.
Even a swine was fine!
Click to expand...
The fallen host have many ways and means. Many alternatives.
And most importantly evil men who are their vassals who will accommodate their will.

And consider the possibilities of a scenario similar to Uruk-hai being bred in the pits of Isengard.
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

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Cameron143 said:
The manner of salvation isn't a salvific issue.
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Really, only a "total inability" person could make such a nonsensical statement. Sorry but true.
Impressive how illogical one becomes to defend an erroneous doctrine.

Kinda like NOT knowing about a plane and how to board a plane it is not necessary at all to know if one wants to take a trip by plane.
 
G

GWH

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rogerg said:
Are you evaluating the gift of God by the standard of gifts given by man? God's gift of salvation doesn't need opening to be received -
that we (must) receive it in its fullness, is also a part of the gift.

And yes, I love ham too.
Click to expand...
The gift of salvation needs receiving to be opened!

Please chew on DT 30:19 until you can digest it.
 
cv5

cv5

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HeIsHere said:
It is not really a debate. It is an attempt to extinguish the personal Gospel of Christ Jesus. It is in fact the constant need to fight against this attempt.

Can you imagine if this was the prevailing doctrine.

"Jesus died on the cross for some people now you wait and see if God picks you, it is kinda like the wind it just goes about and it just happens, POOF!!.... keep hoping it might come your way."

How would anyone get saved?
Click to expand...
Biblically, that sort of Calvinite message has NEVER been preached.
On the contrary, a CHOICE has always been the key feature.
Both OT and NT.

And BTW, when the AC arrives, humankind will again be faced with a CHOICE.
That is ultimately what is driving the entire end-time scenario.
 
cv5

cv5

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ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
What evidence is there that they have ever been able to physically materialize?
Click to expand...
[Gen 6:1 KJV]
And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

[Gen 6:2 KJV]
That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they [were] fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

[Gen 6:3 KJV]
And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also [is] flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

[Gen 6:4 KJV]
There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare [children] to them, the same [became] mighty men which [were] of old, men of renown.

[Gen 6:5 KJV]
And GOD saw that the wickedness of man [was] great in the earth, and [that] every imagination of the thoughts of his heart [was] only evil continually.

[Gen 6:6 KJV]
And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
 
cv5

cv5

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HeIsHere said:
Really, only a "total inability" person could make such a nonsensical statement. Sorry but true.
Impressive how illogical one becomes to defend an erroneous doctrine.

Kinda like NOT knowing about a plane and how to board a plane it is not necessary at all to know if one wants to take a trip by plane.
Click to expand...
Its always some bizarre abstruse Gnostic sophistry with these Calvinites.
And a lot of whack-a-mole thrown in the mix.
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

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cv5 said:
Biblically, that sort of Calvinite message has NEVER been preached.
On the contrary, a CHOICE has always been the key feature.
Both OT and NT.
Click to expand...
Always a choice ultimately, even Paul made the declaration to King Agrippa about his choice to not be disobedient to the message, meaning he made a choice.

As you have stated several times love cannot be about forcing someone.

Therefore, O King Agrippa, I wasn't disobedient to the heavenly vision, but declared first to those in Damascus, then in Jerusalem and throughout all the region of Judea, and also to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, performing deeds in keeping with their repentance.
The Book of Acts
 
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