Understanding God’s election
- Thread starter dougcho
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Re "By grace through faith and nothing of ourselves, means we are not capable of anything
approaching righteousness in ourselves.": No, "through faith" means God gives us the capability of either accepting or rejecting His grace (DT 30:19), which makes us accountable/culpable for sin and harmonizes God's justice with all-lovingness.
approaching righteousness in ourselves.": No, "through faith" means God gives us the capability of either accepting or rejecting His grace (DT 30:19), which makes us accountable/culpable for sin and harmonizes God's justice with all-lovingness.
No - that is NOT what it says. You are misrepresenting the clear intent of the verse. It does not mention any "capability" or the need for it on our part, whatsoever. You've incorrectly added that doctrine to it in a ham-handed and obvious manner. What it does state, and mean, however, is that "by grace ye ARE ye saved" (in the present tense) - all given freely by God through His grace with no outside contribution to it needed nor possible (otherwise salvation wouldn't/couldn't be a gift of/from God) - which interpretation, the surrounding verses clearly corroborate. It does not state that "ye might be saved if ..." as though God, of Himself, was incapable of bringing the "gift" (salvation) to its fruition solely by Jesus Christ. Grace, bestowed unconditionally by God, is received by those whom He had predestined for it.
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It is not really a debate. It is an attempt to extinguish the personal Gospel of Christ Jesus. It is in fact the constant need to fight against this attempt.
Can you imagine if this was the prevailing doctrine.
"Jesus died on the cross for some people now you wait and see if God picks you, it is kinda like the wind it just goes about and it just happens, POOF!!.... keep hoping it might come your way."
How would anyone get saved?
Can you imagine if this was the prevailing doctrine.
"Jesus died on the cross for some people now you wait and see if God picks you, it is kinda like the wind it just goes about and it just happens, POOF!!.... keep hoping it might come your way."
How would anyone get saved?
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Really, only a "total inability" person could make such a nonsensical statement. Sorry but true.
Impressive how illogical one becomes to defend an erroneous doctrine.
Kinda like NOT knowing about a plane and how to board a plane it is not necessary at all to know if one wants to take a trip by plane.
Impressive how illogical one becomes to defend an erroneous doctrine.
Kinda like NOT knowing about a plane and how to board a plane it is not necessary at all to know if one wants to take a trip by plane.
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[Gen 6:1 KJV]
And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
[Gen 6:2 KJV]
That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they [were] fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
[Gen 6:3 KJV]
And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also [is] flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
[Gen 6:4 KJV]
There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare [children] to them, the same [became] mighty men which [were] of old, men of renown.
[Gen 6:5 KJV]
And GOD saw that the wickedness of man [was] great in the earth, and [that] every imagination of the thoughts of his heart [was] only evil continually.
[Gen 6:6 KJV]
And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
[Gen 6:2 KJV]
That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they [were] fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
[Gen 6:3 KJV]
And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also [is] flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
[Gen 6:4 KJV]
There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare [children] to them, the same [became] mighty men which [were] of old, men of renown.
[Gen 6:5 KJV]
And GOD saw that the wickedness of man [was] great in the earth, and [that] every imagination of the thoughts of his heart [was] only evil continually.
[Gen 6:6 KJV]
And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
Always a choice ultimately, even Paul made the declaration to King Agrippa about his choice to not be disobedient to the message, meaning he made a choice.
As you have stated several times love cannot be about forcing someone.
Therefore, O King Agrippa, I wasn't disobedient to the heavenly vision, but declared first to those in Damascus, then in Jerusalem and throughout all the region of Judea, and also to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, performing deeds in keeping with their repentance.
The Book of Acts
As you have stated several times love cannot be about forcing someone.
Therefore, O King Agrippa, I wasn't disobedient to the heavenly vision, but declared first to those in Damascus, then in Jerusalem and throughout all the region of Judea, and also to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, performing deeds in keeping with their repentance.
The Book of Acts
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