Timeline for following verses

[keepingthingsreal]

I understand the scripture to say the remnant will be killed with the sword of him on the horse.(Revelation 19:21) The wheat is taken up into the barn and the tares are left to burn.

With all due respect, I have already proven that this stated belief of yours in relation to the proper timeline of the parable of the wheat and tares being fulfilled is incorrect. I would politely ask that you go back and re-read my previous rebuttal of your belief which can be found here:

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...r-following-verses.217200/page-5#post-5408894

 

[keepingthingsreal]

How does that work, and where does it say it will be on earth?

Rev 5:8
And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
Rev 5:9
And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
Rev 5:10
And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

 

[tttallison]

I think that just means those who are warring against him. There will be survivors all over the world who are just trying to mind their own business

There are only two groups of people at the end of the world, those that are in Christ and those that are not. The "nots" will be burned up with fire. They are called the tares.

Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Rev 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

2Th 1:7-9 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Mat 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Mat 13:38-40 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

Jer 4:25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled. I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger. For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.

I don't understand who this third group is, who survive the wrath of God.

The land will be lie desolate for a thousand years. She will enjoy her sabbaths. There will be no man, not even Satan, to disturb her rest.

 

[keepingthingsreal]

Are they reigning over anyone?

I have already provided you with the correct answer to this question with several different proof texts in different responses of mine, but I will reiterate a couple of truths now.

Dan 7:11
I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
Dan 7:12
As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

When the little horn, or when the beast, or when the Antichrist is slain as his body is destroyed and given to the burning flame (Rev. 19:20), the rest of the beasts, or the rest of the kings (Dan. 7:17) and their kingdoms (Dan. 7:23), shall have their dominion taken away, but their lives will be prolonged for a season and time, or for 1000 years, as Christ and the saints rule over them during his coming Millennial Reign.

The very popular belief that all of the wicked will be destroyed immediately at Christ's second coming is a totally unscriptural belief. Do millions of people currently believe that totally unscriptural nonsense, even as millions of people in ages past have similarly believed the same? Unfortunately, yes, they do, and, unfortunately, yes, they have, but it is totally unscriptural nonsense just the same.

Let me remind you of what Jesus said here:

Luk 19:11
And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.
Luk 19:12
He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
Luk 19:13
And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.
Luk 19:14
But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.
Luk 19:15
And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.
Luk 19:16
Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.
Luk 19:17
And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.
Luk 19:18
And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.
Luk 19:19
And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.
Luk 19:20
And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin:
Luk 19:21
For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow.
Luk 19:22
And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow:
Luk 19:23
Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury?
Luk 19:24
And he said unto them that stood by, Take from him the pound, and give it to him that hath ten pounds.
Luk 19:25
(And they said unto him, Lord, he hath ten pounds.)
Luk 19:26
For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.
Luk 19:27
But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

As I sought to explain to you once before, Jesus told this parable because he was near Jerusalem, and because the people of his day thought that the kingdom of God was going to immediately appear here on earth. They were all looking for the right thing, or for Jesus. as the prophesied Messiah or Christ, to reign over this earth from Mt. Zion in Jerusalem, but their timing was off. Whereas they thought this would be fulfilled at his first coming, he needed to inform them that it would not be fulfilled until the timing of his second coming or when he was returned, having received the kingdom (Luke 19:15).

What are the rewards of his good and faithful servants going to be at the time of his second coming?

Are his good and faithful servants going to inherit heaven while sitting on clouds and strumming harps?

No, they are going to be given authority over cities (Luke 19:17, 19) right here on earth as Christ returns to rule the nations with a rod of iron.

Do you know what makes me sad?

Paul asked:

1Co 6:2
Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

Unfortunately, most professing Christians have absolutely no clue whatsoever in relation to the saints one day judging the world. Why? Because so-called ministers in so-called churches have no clue about the same themselves, and we have a very real situation where the blind are leading the blind. Unlike so many professing Christians today, Paul understood that the saints will ultimately judge the world with Jesus, and I have not only already provided you with some of the reasons why he understood the same, but I could also easily provide you with more reasons.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

There are only two groups of people at the end of the world, those that are in Christ and those that are not. The "nots" will be burned up with fire. They are called the tares.

I don't understand who this third group is, who survive the wrath of God.

The land will be lie desolate for a thousand years. She will enjoy her sabbaths. There will be no man, not even Satan, to disturb her rest.

You're assuming from one parable that there are only 2 groups of people in the world when Christ returns; those saved and those destroyed. Other scripture says God's people will rule the nations with a rod of iron. How can that be true if there are no people to rule? It can't. So in situations like this it is best to not focus too intently on one parable and let the sum of scripture reveal the truth

 

[keepingthingsreal]

You're assuming from one parable that there are only 2 groups of people in the world when Christ returns; those saved and those destroyed. Other scripture says God's people will rule the nations with a rod of iron. How can that be true if there are no people to rule? It can't. So in situations like this it is best to not focus too intently on one parable and let the sum of scripture reveal the truth

And he has a totally wrong interpretation of that one parable, even as I have already shown him twice.

 

[tttallison]

And he has a totally wrong interpretation of that one parable, even as I have already shown him twice.

If two wrongs made a right, I would be right most of the time. I need some/a lot of time to go over these posts. These posts are helping me to get clearer pictures of some things I have had floating in my mind.

 

[tttallison]

And he has a totally wrong interpretation of that one parable, even as I have already shown him twice.

Dear Brother,

I am getting a clearer picture of where and why we are bumping heads. It starts with Daniel and our perception of it.

I believe the prophecy of Daniel has been completed, or at the least most of it, while you believe most of it has not.

All the verses you have presented our true, but if our timeline differs so will our understanding.

You have said Christ’s reign ends at the end of the millennium, and it is the Father’s reign after the millennium. This would answer why David would sit as king, if the timeframe is in the reign of the Father. This would also answer the question of this thread, what is the timeframe of David’s rule.

 

[keepingthingsreal]

Dear Brother,

I am getting a clearer picture of where and why we are bumping heads. It starts with Daniel and our perception of it.

I believe the prophecy of Daniel has been completed, or at the least most of it, while you believe most of it has not.

All the verses you have presented our true, but if our timeline differs so will our understanding.

You have said Christ’s reign ends at the end of the millennium, and it is the Father’s reign after the millennium. This would answer why David would sit as king, if the timeframe is in the reign of the Father. This would also answer the question of this thread, what is the timeframe of David’s rule.

Neither David nor Christ will be ruling after Christ's Millennial Reign. As Paul said:

1Co 15:24
Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25
For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26
The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
1Co 15:27
For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1Co 15:28
And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

No offense, but your current eschatological timeline is quite erroneous.

 

[keepingthingsreal]

Dear Brother,

I am getting a clearer picture of where and why we are bumping heads. It starts with Daniel and our perception of it.

I believe the prophecy of Daniel has been completed, or at the least most of it, while you believe most of it has not.

May I ask you a sincere question?

Were your current eschatological timeline beliefs originally formed by your own prayerful reading of God's word, or did somebody else first teach them to you?

My guess is that it is the latter, and not the former.

 

[keepingthingsreal]

I believe the prophecy of Daniel has been completed, or at the least most of it, while you believe most of it has not.

Here is what I quoted you from the prophet Daniel.

Dan 7:11
I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
Dan 7:12
As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

Verse 11 will find its fulfillment here:

Rev 19:20
And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

You have previously stated that you believe the events described in Revelation chapter 19 are yet future, so how can you now say that they have already been completed?

Furthermore, what Daniel prophesied of in verse 12 in relation to the other beasts, or in relation to the other kingdoms, having their dominion taken away while their lives will be prolonged for a season and a time finds its fulfillment in Revelation chapter 20 or during the yet future Millennial Reign of Christ.

I do not know where you got your current end-time beliefs from, but, with no disrespect towards you intended, you did not get them from rightly divided scripture.

 

[tttallison]

May I ask you a sincere question?

Were your current eschatological timeline beliefs originally formed by your own prayerful reading of God's word, or did somebody else first teach them to you?

My guess is that it is the latter, and not the former.

Psa 116:11 I said in my haste, All men are liars.

Jhn 3:33 He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.

 

[vassal]

Jer 30:9 But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.

Hos 3:5 Afterward shall the children of Israel return, and seek the LORD their God, and David their king; and shall fear the LORD and his goodness in the latter days.

Eze 34:23 And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, even my servant David; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd.

Eze 34:24 And I the LORD will be their God, and my servant David a prince among them; I the LORD have spoken it.

Eze 37:24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.

Eze 37:22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:

The verses from Jeremiah, Hosea, and Ezekiel all point to a future restoration of Israel, a time when the people will return to God and be united under a leader from the line of David. In Jeremiah 30:9, the promise of a future king from David's lineage indicates a time when Israel will serve God under a Davidic ruler, which is typically interpreted as a messianic prophecy. Similarly, Hosea 3:5 envisions a time in the "latter days" when Israel will seek the Lord and be governed by "David their king." This reflects the expectation of a future restoration and a return to faithfulness to God under a leader from David's line. Ezekiel's prophecies further develop this theme. In Ezekiel 34:23-24, God promises to raise up a shepherd from David's line to lead and care for Israel, a figure who will be both king and prince, with God as their ultimate ruler. Ezekiel 37:22 and 37:24 expand on this, predicting a reunification of Israel under one king, a king from David’s line who will shepherd the people and restore them to a faithful and united nation. These passages, while addressing the historical context of exile and potential restoration, are often interpreted as messianic, pointing to a future time when a descendant of David will rule over a restored and unified Israel. Though partial fulfillment occurred with the return from Babylonian exile, the full realization of these prophecies is believed to be yet to come, particularly in the messianic era, when a Davidic king will reign, Israel will be united, and peace and faithfulness to God will prevail. This future fulfillment is generally seen as occurring in the end times, when the Messianic King will usher in the ultimate restoration of Israel and the establishment of God's kingdom.

Other similar prophecies reinforce this timeline and theme. In Isaiah 9:6-7, the prophet speaks of a child born to the house of David who will reign on David’s throne forever, bringing peace and establishing justice. Isaiah 11:1-10 further describes a future ruler from the root of Jesse (David's father) who will bring an era of peace, where even natural enemies will be reconciled, and the knowledge of the Lord will fill the earth. This connects closely with the promises in Ezekiel and Jeremiah, envisioning a time when the Davidic king will establish global peace and righteousness.

In Zechariah 14, the prophet sees a time when the Lord will return to Jerusalem, defeat Israel’s enemies, and establish His reign on earth. Zechariah 14:9 declares, "The LORD will be king over the whole earth. On that day there will be one LORD, and His name the only name." This prophecy of God's reign aligns with the expectations in Ezekiel and Hosea of a future Davidic king ruling with God's authority. Zechariah also describes the restoration of the land and worship in Jerusalem, reflecting the hope of a reunited and faithful Israel.

Amos 9:11-15 promises the restoration of the Davidic kingdom, where God will "raise up the fallen booth of David" and restore His people. Amos 9:11-12 specifically says, "In that day I will restore David’s fallen shelter...and build it as it used to be," echoing the restoration of the Davidic monarchy seen in Ezekiel. This is a key component of the messianic expectation of a future king who will lead Israel to a state of prosperity and peace.

In a similar way, Micah 4:1-8 envisions a time when the mountain of the Lord’s temple will be established as the highest of the mountains, with people from all nations coming to worship there. Micah 4:6-7 mentions the restoration of Israel and the raising up of a ruler from the line of David who will reign in peace. "I will make the lame a remnant, those driven away a strong nation. The Lord will rule over them in Mount Zion, from that day and forever." This fits with the promise of a future Davidic king who will shepherd Israel and bring peace, as described in Ezekiel.

Psalm 72, often regarded as a royal psalm, prays for the king of Israel to rule with justice and righteousness. It anticipates a reign of peace where the king will have dominion over the nations, the poor and needy will be cared for, and the earth will flourish. This psalm is often seen as pointing to the ideal Davidic king, whose reign will be fully realized in the messianic age.

These prophecies, like those in Jeremiah, Hosea, and Ezekiel, share a common thread: a future, messianic figure from the line of David who will bring about the restoration of Israel, establish God’s reign, and usher in an era of peace and righteousness. They all anticipate the end times or the Messianic age, when these promises will be fully realized. Many of these prophecies are seen as fulfilled in Jesus Christ, the descendant of David, while in Jewish thought, they point to the future coming of the Messiah who will restore Israel.

 

[keepingthingsreal]

Psa 116:11 I said in my haste, All men are liars.

Jhn 3:33 He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.

Your answer is open to interpretation. I politely asked you a sincere and straightforward question. I would appreciate it if you would similarly give me a straightforward answer. Thank you.

 

[tttallison]

Your answer is open to interpretation. I politely asked you a sincere and straightforward question. I would appreciate it if you would similarly give me a straightforward answer. Thank you.

Many years ago, I went to PCB which was a school founded by I.C. Schofield. Its name was changed to Cairn University. I deplore what Schofield taught. I wish there was no such thing as commentaries, though I have been known to peak at them from time to time. Does this answer your question?

 

[keepingthingsreal]

Many years ago, I went to PCB which was a school founded by I.C. Schofield. Its name was changed to Cairn University. I deplore what Schofield taught. I wish there was no such thing as commentaries, though I have been known to peak at them from time to time. Does this answer your question?

Yes, it does. Thank you.

 

[tttallison]

Your answer is open to interpretation. I politely asked you a sincere and straightforward question. I would appreciate it if you would similarly give me a straightforward answer. Thank you.

My wife says I am a bumble head, and she is most likely correct. I will try a third time to answer your legitimate question. The Holy Spirit is my teacher. A while back I watched a 2-hour discussion on eschatology by John Piper, Jim Hamilton, Doug Wilson, and Sam Storm. There was very little if anything all four could agree on. I do not follow men. Men are fallible, the Bible is not. Sorry that I did not answer you with more clarity.

 

[tttallison]

Neither David nor Christ will be ruling after Christ's Millennial Reign. As Paul said:

1Co 15:24
Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25
For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26
The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
1Co 15:27
For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1Co 15:28
And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

No offense, but your current eschatological timeline is quite erroneous.

What King is reigning in the following timeframe.

Eze 38:14 Therefore, son of man, prophesy and say unto Gog, Thus saith the Lord GOD; In that day when my people of Israel dwelleth safely, shalt thou not know it?

Eze 38:15 And thou shalt come from thy place out of the north parts, thou, and many people with thee, all of them riding upon horses, a great company, and a mighty army:

Eze 38:16 And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

What King is reigning in the following timeframe.

Eze 38:14 Therefore, son of man, prophesy and say unto Gog, Thus saith the Lord GOD; In that day when my people of Israel dwelleth safely, shalt thou not know it?

Eze 38:15 And thou shalt come from thy place out of the north parts, thou, and many people with thee, all of them riding upon horses, a great company, and a mighty army:

Eze 38:16 And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

That would be Christ, the son of David

 

[tttallison]

That would be Christ, the son of David

As I understand "keepingthingsreal" to say Christ's reign ends at the at the end of the millennium. We are talking post millennium, when Gog and Magog do battle with Israel.