Understanding God’s election

[Blain]

Then this "bully" challenges you, your sidekick CV5 and most especially Inquisitor to interpret Rom 1:13 and Rom 11:13. Can any of you post anything of genuine substance or are you all stuck on your second childhood.

I'd say the Calvin's Institutes were right on! God did create TWO lumps out of one. And I don't think he solicited anyone's blessing or approval before he decreed that in eternity.

There can be nuggets of truth even in calvinism

 

[Magenta]

This should have been...men fit themselves for destruction.

I have seen you say that quite a few times...

 

[Pilgrimshope]

We come into this world separated from the Life of God -- spiritually deader than door nails!

“Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

when we sin we condemn ourself to death

 

[Pilgrimshope]

There can be nuggets of truth even in calvinism

Yes calvin actually has some good things in his writings it’s only his conclusions that go awry

 

[Magenta]

“Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine:
the soul that sinneth, it shall die.” ‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

when we sin we condemn ourself to death

Ezekiel 18:4 plus 32

 

[Rufus]

I mean I may be insane but it doesn't seem to be any more clear to me

Wow! And I thought I had it bad growing up, as I was also raised in a foster home at an early age. And like you, I cannot to this day remember so many things about my childhood. I think God does that to block out those painful, negative memories so that they won't affect us later in life. Awesome testimony! And I love your positive attitude through it all.

May the Lord bless you richly for the rest of your life.

 

[Cameron143]

This is not a reference to the afterlife.

Not directly. But it does have God choosing how to divide the lump and how to deal with each.

 

[Blain]

Yes calvin actually has some good things in his writings it’s only his conclusions that go awry

I agreethe path is there but the destination is off

 

[Blain]

Wow! And I thought I had it bad growing up, as I was also raised in a foster home at an early age. And like you, I cannot to this day remember so many things about my childhood. I think God does that to block out those painful, negative memories so that they won't affect us later in life. Awesome testimony! And I love your positive attitude through it all.

May the Lord bless you richly for the rest of your life.

Ag so you understand very well, yes I think he blocks thingd out as to not burden us to mucg but never forget my friend that suffering we went through was meant to help connect and encourage others who have known the same pain bless you my friend I am glad to have met you

 

[Rufus]

This has been my position all along. If you read back to the post that I responded to, you will find that someone posited double predestination. I was making the case against it. Sounds like we agree. Men fit themselves for salvation.

And Ishmael and Esau...did they "fit themselves" for their eternal destiny before or after God's eternal decree that rejected them both?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I have seen you say that quite a few times...

“And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil. ( death )


….but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:8-9, 17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭30:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18:4‬ ‭

 

[Rufus]

I have seen you say that quite a few times...

And there is truth in what Cameroon says...but it's not the entire truth.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

And Ishmael and Esau...did they "fit themselves" for their eternal destiny before or after God's eternal decree that rejected them both?

God understood Esau’s actions before he sold his blessing he has foreknowledge

God already knew esau would do this

“lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭12:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

God sees with foreknowledge

 

[Cameron143]

And Ishmael and Esau...did they "fit themselves" for their eternal destiny before or after God's eternal decree that rejected them both?

Salvation there should have been destruction.

 

[Jimbone]

Well no of course pul didn’t have it wrong, that verse agrees . it says they were dead in thier sins not that they were born spiritually dead.

The body is the dead part

“And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin;

but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

If we’re already dead why do we need to get baptized into Christs death for our sins ?

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: ( but we already are dead ?)

that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we aren’t born spiritually dead , our living soul is condemned to die because of our sins. That’s why we need to die with Jesus , to remit our sins and the reason death has to take us

“in whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:11-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Man you don't make any sense, I understand every word you're using, they just don't make any sense in the order you put them in. You're trying to pick something apart by adding what you believe to scripture. What you are saying here does NOT agree with the scripture you're using. It's like you are proof texting your beliefs. It's a horrible way to handle the text and you seem more confused than certain. Show it where is says we are born whole and 100% A-Okay with God. This is what you're arguing for and there is not 1 scripture you've used that backs up this false teaching. I challenge you to produce anything from His word that says those of us born in Adam are 100% "good" at birth. I'll wait....

 

[Cameron143]

And there is truth in what Cameroon says...but it's not the entire truth.

All that is necessary for an individual to die and go to hell is for God to do nothing concerning them. They are already dead in their sins and under the control od Satan and the wrath of God.

 

[Magenta]

“And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil. ( death )


….but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:8-9, 17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭30:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18:4‬ ‭

Yes... Adam sinned willfully, deliberately. He was of the natural world, after all.

Psalm 118:24 This is the day that the LORD has made; let us rejoice and be glad in it.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Yes... Adam sinned willfully, deliberately. He was of the natural world, after all.

Psalm 118:24 This is the day that the LORD has made; let us rejoice and be glad in it.

all souls sister have sinned by thier own volition it’s why we die “ the wages of sin is death “

thank the good lord for Jesus though hallelujah

“Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For the wages of sin is death;

but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:23‬ ‭

“For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death:

that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-4, KJV‬‬

“ born again “ because we caused our own demise he came to deliver us from it and make us new

 

[Rufus]

The topic is election, Cameron.

You are seeking clarification of some verses in Romans 9.

I added two extra verses and let the context speak more clearly.

Romans 9:21-25
Or does the potter not have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one object for honorable use,
and another for common use? What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known,
endured with great patience objects of wrath prepared for destruction? And He did so to make known the riches
of His glory upon objects of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory. namely us, whom He also called,
not only from among Jews, but also from among Gentiles, as He also says in Hosea:
“I will call those who were not My people, My people".

A quick explanation because I know where this argument is heading, see below.

Romans 9:30-31
What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, but
the righteousness that is by faith; however, Israel, pursuing a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law.

The clay for 'honorable use' is the Jews and the clay for 'common use' was the Gentiles.

The 'objects of wrath' was everyone, that is, Jews and Gentiles combined.

'Objects of mercy' are those that believe in Jesus and that is by grace through faith.

Wrong! The clay for honorable use is all God's elect; the clay for common use are those whom God rejected. How do you ignore the five (5) real life, historical examples Paul gives in this passage? Issac and Jacob were created for "honorable" use; whereas Ishmael and Esau were created for "common" use. Also, Pharaoh was created for "common" use. God pays no mind to ethnicity; for he is the God of both Jews and Gentiles. He is the sole owner of the souls of both groups.

 

[Magenta]

all souls sister have sinned by thier own volition it’s why we die “ the wages of sin is death “

Yes, and everyone who sins is a slave to sin, we have been saying this back and forth and back and forth and back and forth, still people talk as if the natural man is free when his heart is bent away from God, and it is in our hearts we need to believe, but the natural man has a heart of stone, he is captive to the will of the devil, blinded by the god of this world, unable to obey, incapable according to the very words of Scripture, and cannot understand the gospel message, for it is as foolishness to him, like someone speaking in tongues with no interpreter. That heart cannot believe without intervention, the very intervention so many here deny and speak against, as if God acting in our favor makes Him some kind of heartless tyrannical monster; some say for Him to act unilaterally makes a hoax of repentance and salvation.

thank the good lord for Jesus though hallelujah

Amen!