Understanding God’s election
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No, YOU are not discussing the future judgment. YOU are not discussing the return of Jesus because you refuse to discuss Mat 7:23 in its proper, eschatological context. You are the poster boy for "stuck on stupid" because you totally ignore the context of the above passage since it's a very inconvenient text for you free willers and what you believe about God's foreknowledge. Mat 7:23 is most definitely speaking to the day when Jesus returns and judges the world. And guess what, Charlie Brown, Jesus on judgment day won't be having any foreknowledge as you free willers define that term! You want no part of this passage because you have no legitimate answers to the questions I raised about Jesus lacking the attribute of omniscience on Judgment Day (which itself would make him less than divine) even though to judge righteously the Judge MUST know every thought, word and deed of everyone He is judging. If He doesn't actually know...then he's guessing at best. He'd be winging it. Under such conditions, it would be impossible for anyone to judged fairly and with equity.
You don't even want to address the questions I asked in my last post: Is Jesus Christ mortal now? Will He be mortal when he returns to raise the righteous and the wicked from the dead and judge the living and the dead?
It's a shame that you can't even detect your own duplicity!
You don't even want to address the questions I asked in my last post: Is Jesus Christ mortal now? Will He be mortal when he returns to raise the righteous and the wicked from the dead and judge the living and the dead?
It's a shame that you can't even detect your own duplicity!
From what I have been able to decipher from your confusing comments....
When Matthew 7:23, states the following?
You were claiming that Jesus had to be omniscient to make such a declaration?
Is that correct?
When Matthew 7:23, states the following?
"And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity".
You were claiming that Jesus had to be omniscient to make such a declaration?
Is that correct?
No, that's not correct. (You're another one with reading comp problems.) I said that in order for Jesus to make that kind of statement, i.e. "I NEVER KNEW YOU..." can only mean that on judgment day he obviously won't possess the attribute of omniscience which presents serious theological problems. How could he, as he won't have any knowledge about those those he'll be judging, or even more specifically won't have any knowledge whatsoever of false believers who will, of course, also come under his judgment.
Ball's in your court, bunky.
Ball's in your court, bunky.
I don't understand why you are getting so upset?
Your jumping up and down on one verse in Matthew.
Which has nothing to do with Romans 8:29, which is God saying that He previously foreknew the Jews.
I certainly don't define "foreknew" as a foreknowledge of the future.
I am not a 'free willer' and where do you get the idea that I was?
You may have thrown me in the Arminianism basket.
I disagree with them also.
Your jumping up and down on one verse in Matthew.
Which has nothing to do with Romans 8:29, which is God saying that He previously foreknew the Jews.
I certainly don't define "foreknew" as a foreknowledge of the future.
I am not a 'free willer' and where do you get the idea that I was?
You may have thrown me in the Arminianism basket.
I disagree with them also.
The difference between the 2 groups is the supernatural birth. Those who are created in Adam have natural births. Those created in Christ Jesus experience supernatural birth.
If God doesn't intervene supernaturally, would Isaac have been born? Why is this in the Bible? What is God teaching? Related to John 3?
You are so stuck on a particular doctrine, you won't examine all the scripture has to say fairly. Selection is choosing between what is in existence. Election, biblically, is choosing and then bringing into existence something that was not. There was no nation Israel until God formed it supernaturally through Abraham. And there is no you except God created you supernaturally in Christ.
If God doesn't intervene supernaturally, would Isaac have been born? Why is this in the Bible? What is God teaching? Related to John 3?
You are so stuck on a particular doctrine, you won't examine all the scripture has to say fairly. Selection is choosing between what is in existence. Election, biblically, is choosing and then bringing into existence something that was not. There was no nation Israel until God formed it supernaturally through Abraham. And there is no you except God created you supernaturally in Christ.
Election, biblically speaking, and as you have already been shown, is simply this:
Isa 42:1
Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
Isa 42:2
He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street.
Isa 42:3
A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth.
Isa 42:4
He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.
God's (mine) elect or chosen is Jesus Christ.
Mat 12:15
But when Jesus knew it, he withdrew himself from thence: and great multitudes followed him, and he healed them all;
Mat 12:16
And charged them that they should not make him known:
Mat 12:17
That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying,
Mat 12:18
Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.
Mat 12:19
He shall not strive, nor cry; neither shall any man hear his voice in the streets.
Mat 12:20
A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory.
Mat 12:21
And in his name shall the Gentiles trust.
Whether you will ever admit it or not, Jesus Christ is God's elect or chosen means of salvation, and those who were chosen IN HIM before the foundation of the world (Eph. 1:4) are those whom God, in his foreknowledge, knew would respond favorably to the gospel of Jesus Christ; thereby being found to be IN HIM.
It really is that simple, and I only bothered to mention it again for the potential benefits of any lurkers who might be following this thread so that they might not be led astray with any of the nonsense that certain people have been posting here.
Isa 42:1
Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
Isa 42:2
He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street.
Isa 42:3
A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth.
Isa 42:4
He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.
God's (mine) elect or chosen is Jesus Christ.
Mat 12:15
But when Jesus knew it, he withdrew himself from thence: and great multitudes followed him, and he healed them all;
Mat 12:16
And charged them that they should not make him known:
Mat 12:17
That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying,
Mat 12:18
Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.
Mat 12:19
He shall not strive, nor cry; neither shall any man hear his voice in the streets.
Mat 12:20
A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory.
Mat 12:21
And in his name shall the Gentiles trust.
Whether you will ever admit it or not, Jesus Christ is God's elect or chosen means of salvation, and those who were chosen IN HIM before the foundation of the world (Eph. 1:4) are those whom God, in his foreknowledge, knew would respond favorably to the gospel of Jesus Christ; thereby being found to be IN HIM.
It really is that simple, and I only bothered to mention it again for the potential benefits of any lurkers who might be following this thread so that they might not be led astray with any of the nonsense that certain people have been posting here.
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Just to be crystal clear on what you're saying: When Jesus said "I never knew you...", he was really saying *I* never had a personal, intimate, covenant relationship with you which is why "they never were saved" correct? In your mind the passage has nothing to do with Jesus' prescience (omniscience), right?