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Hello members.
I am new here - and I'm looking to have some conversations with Bible-believing people who have a reasonable grasp of the King James Bible.
Below is a question I have had difficulty obtaining an answer to from people in ministry. I would appreciate receiving any answers that members may have to offer.
Blessings,
Alan
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The scripture verse below (as stated by the Apostle Paul in the King James Bible) says:
Given that the scripture verse below plainly states that Salvation is:
The question here is that if Salvation is a "FREE GIFT" as stated above and in Romans 5:15, 16 and 18, what is the situation involving OBEDIENCE that the Apostle Paul is referring to?
NOTE: The term “OBEY NOT THE GOSPEL” can also be seen in 2 Thessalonians 1:8 and 1 Peter 4:17 -—- therefore knowing WHAT TO OBEY and then COMPLYING with the requirement I believe is most likely to affect one’s Salvation. Do you agree?
I am new here - and I'm looking to have some conversations with Bible-believing people who have a reasonable grasp of the King James Bible.
Below is a question I have had difficulty obtaining an answer to from people in ministry. I would appreciate receiving any answers that members may have to offer.
Blessings,
Alan
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The scripture verse below (as stated by the Apostle Paul in the King James Bible) says:
Given that the scripture verse below plainly states that Salvation is:
The question here is that if Salvation is a "FREE GIFT" as stated above and in Romans 5:15, 16 and 18, what is the situation involving OBEDIENCE that the Apostle Paul is referring to?
NOTE: The term “OBEY NOT THE GOSPEL” can also be seen in 2 Thessalonians 1:8 and 1 Peter 4:17 -—- therefore knowing WHAT TO OBEY and then COMPLYING with the requirement I believe is most likely to affect one’s Salvation. Do you agree?
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After a good night 
= OK, I am Wide Awake now , so, let's see if I can maybe help with:
I can relate - been there and done that with my questions about God's ONE Baptism ( for
us Today, Under Grace ) [ about 35 years ago... ]
Precious brother Alan, Great Question! I believe { my intermediate answer } that the
'They' Paul is referring to can be explained by examining:
Romans 5:15, 16, 18, and Several other Plain And Clear Scriptures, That
"the situation involving OBEDIENCE that the Apostle Paul is referring to" would be:
brother ChrisE
------------------
An even longer answer?:
Further encouraging examination of "Paul Dismantling Israel's and today's unbelievers'
excuses" for not "obeying The Gospel" can be found here:
Excuses, Excuses!
+
No More Excuses!
Enjoy...
= OK, I am Wide Awake now , so, let's see if I can maybe help with:I can relate - been there and done that with my questions about God's ONE Baptism ( for
us Today, Under Grace ) [ about 35 years ago... ]
Precious brother Alan, Great Question! I believe { my intermediate answer } that the
'They' Paul is referring to can be explained by examining:
"Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish
their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto The Righteousness
Of God.
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth"
(Romans 10:1-4 AV)
Therefore, I believe this is in Scriptural Harmonization with Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 5:15, 16, 18, and Several other Plain And Clear Scriptures, That
"the situation involving OBEDIENCE that the Apostle Paul is referring to" would be:
"having faith ( trusting/believing ) In The Lord Jesus Christ, and In
His Death, Burial, and Resurrection, According To The Scriptures!"
( Paul's "my Gospel" in 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 AV)
Sincerely, brother ChrisE
------------------
An even longer answer?:
Further encouraging examination of "Paul Dismantling Israel's and today's unbelievers'
excuses" for not "obeying The Gospel" can be found here:
Excuses, Excuses!
+
No More Excuses!
Enjoy...
-
1
- Show all
Hello Brother Chris!
This is Part 1 of 2 parts that I had to cut down. I hope it all makes sense.
Thank you for your response to my question. Much appreciated.
THE ISSUE OF THE JEWS
When the Jews chose to say "Crucify Jesus to Pilate (Mark 15:12-14) and later said "Let the blood of this man be on us and our children" (Matthew 27:25 KJV) God closed His outreach to the Jews for them to turn to Him in faith. This claim is reinforced with the temple curtain being torn in two, which then annulled (or ended) the Jewish Priesthood; and thereby allowed the Gentiles to gain DIRECT access to God in faith without needing any Earth-born 'priest' as a mediator.
To finalise this point, the Prophet Daniel stated that God said He would take 490 years to bring the Jews back to Himself in the Seventy Weeks Prophecy (Daniel 9:24). After 483 years had passed, the Jewish priests had corrupted their priesthood so much, that they murdered God's Son - their promised Messiah at Calvary's cross.
God could not allow such an offence to go unpunished, so He placed a "veil" (of unbelief in Christ - 2 Corinthians 3:15-16) over each Jewish heart - so that when they hear the name of Jesus Christ, they reject Him instantly as being their Messiah.
In this, I also believe that to accommodate the offence of Christ's name to Jewish people, certain Christian ministries use the alternative name of Yeshua Hamashiach to appease the Jews. Such a 'name' violates this verse of scripture that says:
Any comments you have about this would be appreciated, Chris.
PAUL'S GOSPEL
Most Christians today falsely believe that Paul's Gospel is the Gospel of Jesus Christ. My claims that support this allegation are these:
After Judas Iscariot died, the 11 Apostles appointed Matthias as a replacement apostle (Acts 1:26), but they had no right to do this
Jesus eventually chose Saul of Tarsus to become His Twelfth Apostle (1 Corinthians 15:7-9).
After Saul accepted his new name ('Paul'), he left Israel for Arabia, where he stayed three-years in which to form a personal relationship with Jesus (Galatians 1:15-17 KJV).
During this time, Jesus gave Paul his unique Gospel that Jesus required to be preached among the Gentiles. Paul termed it "My Gospel" as stated in Romans 2:16; 16:25 and 2 Tim. 2:8 and as "...that gospel" in Galatians 2:2.
Paul said that he received his gospel directly from Jesus Christ in these verses:
Paul also said in Romans 2:16 that Jesus Christ would use "Paul's Gospel" to determine if Christians had OBEYED IT or NOT:
It is my firm belief that the phrase "...ACCORDING TO MY GOSPEL" relates to Christ using Paul's Gospel as the 'plumbline' (Amos 7:7-8) in which to judge each Christian on Judgment Day. This is where Jesus will determine if Christians have OBEYED PAUL'S GOSPEL or not. This claim reinforces the statement in the verse in question:
It also reaffirms that "FEW Christians will be saved" and NOT the "many" as preached from the pulpits:
As Isaiah said to the people of his day (Isaiah 53:1); Jesus said to the people of his day (John 12:38); Paul said to the people of his day (Romans 10:16) and now me saying to people of today - God's people still prefer to reject the warnings given to them about embracing 'religious'-based beliefs that are incapable of saving their soul from spending eternity in Hell.
Therefore, what I am saying is that there are TWO GOSPELS that are aimed at TWO AUDIENCES in the Bible:
1. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is aimed at unbelievers and of STOPPING THEM FROM SINNING. Jesus Christ paid the ONLY price acceptable to God for their sins. That is all this gospel can do.
2. The Apostle Paul's Gospel is aimed at those who desire to become a Disciple of Jesus Christ (Luke 14:26-33; John 13:35) and to serve Him by doing the same "WORKS" that He did:
Any comments on Part 1 that you have would be appreciated, Chris.
This is Part 1 of 2 parts that I had to cut down. I hope it all makes sense.
Thank you for your response to my question. Much appreciated.
THE ISSUE OF THE JEWS
When the Jews chose to say "Crucify Jesus to Pilate (Mark 15:12-14) and later said "Let the blood of this man be on us and our children" (Matthew 27:25 KJV) God closed His outreach to the Jews for them to turn to Him in faith. This claim is reinforced with the temple curtain being torn in two, which then annulled (or ended) the Jewish Priesthood; and thereby allowed the Gentiles to gain DIRECT access to God in faith without needing any Earth-born 'priest' as a mediator.
To finalise this point, the Prophet Daniel stated that God said He would take 490 years to bring the Jews back to Himself in the Seventy Weeks Prophecy (Daniel 9:24). After 483 years had passed, the Jewish priests had corrupted their priesthood so much, that they murdered God's Son - their promised Messiah at Calvary's cross.
God could not allow such an offence to go unpunished, so He placed a "veil" (of unbelief in Christ - 2 Corinthians 3:15-16) over each Jewish heart - so that when they hear the name of Jesus Christ, they reject Him instantly as being their Messiah.
In this, I also believe that to accommodate the offence of Christ's name to Jewish people, certain Christian ministries use the alternative name of Yeshua Hamashiach to appease the Jews. Such a 'name' violates this verse of scripture that says:
Any comments you have about this would be appreciated, Chris.
PAUL'S GOSPEL
Most Christians today falsely believe that Paul's Gospel is the Gospel of Jesus Christ. My claims that support this allegation are these:
After Judas Iscariot died, the 11 Apostles appointed Matthias as a replacement apostle (Acts 1:26), but they had no right to do this
Jesus eventually chose Saul of Tarsus to become His Twelfth Apostle (1 Corinthians 15:7-9).
After Saul accepted his new name ('Paul'), he left Israel for Arabia, where he stayed three-years in which to form a personal relationship with Jesus (Galatians 1:15-17 KJV).
During this time, Jesus gave Paul his unique Gospel that Jesus required to be preached among the Gentiles. Paul termed it "My Gospel" as stated in Romans 2:16; 16:25 and 2 Tim. 2:8 and as "...that gospel" in Galatians 2:2.
Paul said that he received his gospel directly from Jesus Christ in these verses:
Paul also said in Romans 2:16 that Jesus Christ would use "Paul's Gospel" to determine if Christians had OBEYED IT or NOT:
It is my firm belief that the phrase "...ACCORDING TO MY GOSPEL" relates to Christ using Paul's Gospel as the 'plumbline' (Amos 7:7-8) in which to judge each Christian on Judgment Day. This is where Jesus will determine if Christians have OBEYED PAUL'S GOSPEL or not. This claim reinforces the statement in the verse in question:
It also reaffirms that "FEW Christians will be saved" and NOT the "many" as preached from the pulpits:
As Isaiah said to the people of his day (Isaiah 53:1); Jesus said to the people of his day (John 12:38); Paul said to the people of his day (Romans 10:16) and now me saying to people of today - God's people still prefer to reject the warnings given to them about embracing 'religious'-based beliefs that are incapable of saving their soul from spending eternity in Hell.
Therefore, what I am saying is that there are TWO GOSPELS that are aimed at TWO AUDIENCES in the Bible:
1. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is aimed at unbelievers and of STOPPING THEM FROM SINNING. Jesus Christ paid the ONLY price acceptable to God for their sins. That is all this gospel can do.
2. The Apostle Paul's Gospel is aimed at those who desire to become a Disciple of Jesus Christ (Luke 14:26-33; John 13:35) and to serve Him by doing the same "WORKS" that He did:
Any comments on Part 1 that you have would be appreciated, Chris.
After a good night = OK, I am Wide Awake now , so, let's see if I can maybe help with:
I can relate - been there and done that with my questions about God's ONE Baptism ( for
us Today, Under Grace ) [ about 35 years ago... ]
Precious brother Alan, Great Question! I believe { my intermediate answer } that the
'They' Paul is referring to can be explained by examining:
Romans 5:15, 16, 18, and Several other Plain And Clear Scriptures, That
"the situation involving OBEDIENCE that the Apostle Paul is referring to" would be:
brother ChrisE
------------------
An even longer answer?:
Further encouraging examination of "Paul Dismantling Israel's and today's unbelievers'
excuses" for not "obeying The Gospel" can be found here:
Excuses, Excuses!
+
No More Excuses!
Enjoy...
= OK, I am Wide Awake now , so, let's see if I can maybe help with:I can relate - been there and done that with my questions about God's ONE Baptism ( for
us Today, Under Grace ) [ about 35 years ago... ]
Precious brother Alan, Great Question! I believe { my intermediate answer } that the
'They' Paul is referring to can be explained by examining:
"Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish
their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto The Righteousness
Of God.
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth"
(Romans 10:1-4 AV)
Therefore, I believe this is in Scriptural Harmonization with Ephesians 2:8-9,Romans 5:15, 16, 18, and Several other Plain And Clear Scriptures, That
"the situation involving OBEDIENCE that the Apostle Paul is referring to" would be:
"having faith ( trusting/believing ) In The Lord Jesus Christ, and In
His Death, Burial, and Resurrection, According To The Scriptures!"
( Paul's "my Gospel" in 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 AV)
Sincerely,brother ChrisE
------------------
An even longer answer?:
Further encouraging examination of "Paul Dismantling Israel's and today's unbelievers'
excuses" for not "obeying The Gospel" can be found here:
Excuses, Excuses!
+
No More Excuses!
Enjoy...
-
1
- Show all
After a good night = OK, I am Wide Awake now , so, let's see if I can maybe help with:
I can relate - been there and done that with my questions about God's ONE Baptism ( for
us Today, Under Grace ) [ about 35 years ago... ]
Precious brother Alan, Great Question! I believe { my intermediate answer } that the
'They' Paul is referring to can be explained by examining:
Romans 5:15, 16, 18, and Several other Plain And Clear Scriptures, That
"the situation involving OBEDIENCE that the Apostle Paul is referring to" would be:
brother ChrisE
------------------
An even longer answer?:
Further encouraging examination of "Paul Dismantling Israel's and today's unbelievers'
excuses" for not "obeying The Gospel" can be found here:
Excuses, Excuses!
+
No More Excuses!
Enjoy...
= OK, I am Wide Awake now , so, let's see if I can maybe help with:I can relate - been there and done that with my questions about God's ONE Baptism ( for
us Today, Under Grace ) [ about 35 years ago... ]
Precious brother Alan, Great Question! I believe { my intermediate answer } that the
'They' Paul is referring to can be explained by examining:
"Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish
their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto The Righteousness
Of God.
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth"
(Romans 10:1-4 AV)
Therefore, I believe this is in Scriptural Harmonization with Ephesians 2:8-9,Romans 5:15, 16, 18, and Several other Plain And Clear Scriptures, That
"the situation involving OBEDIENCE that the Apostle Paul is referring to" would be:
"having faith ( trusting/believing ) In The Lord Jesus Christ, and In
His Death, Burial, and Resurrection, According To The Scriptures!"
( Paul's "my Gospel" in 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 AV)
Sincerely,brother ChrisE
------------------
An even longer answer?:
Further encouraging examination of "Paul Dismantling Israel's and today's unbelievers'
excuses" for not "obeying The Gospel" can be found here:
Excuses, Excuses!
+
No More Excuses!
Enjoy...
This is Part 2 of 2 parts that I had to cut down. I hope it all makes sense.
THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST
When Jesus was on Earth, the Bible says that He preached the Gospel of the Kingdom as stated in Matthew 24:14.
After Christ's ascension into Heaven, His apostles preached the Gospel of Jesus Christ to unsaved sinners. This meant that ‘Saved’ sinners needed to eradicate sin from their lives if they expected to live and serve both God and Christ throughout eternity. This is because NO SINNER will be allowed entry into Heaven as God is a holy God.
However, just achieving a SINLESS status will not get anyone into Heaven.
DOING GOD'S WILL
Jesus has stated plainly that any Christian who does God the Father's will is regarded as a family member in Heaven - meaning, by this means alone they can be assured of Salvation:
Naturally, Jesus requires all Christians to be "workers" inside the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth.
Jesus stated this in His parable of hiring labourers throughout the course of a working day, as seen in Matthew 20:1-16. Each labourer who did "WORK" received the same payment - indicating that whether it is a full day or a part-day's work, each "WORKER" will receive a reward for faithful service (Matthew 20:10-16 KJV).
In a similar parable of the servants being given their master's money to trade with while their Master was away, to one He gave 5 talents; to another He gave 2 talents and to another He gave 1 talent (Matthew 25:14-30) or pound (Luke 19:11-27). The servant with 5 talents traded and produced a 100% profit for his Master. The same happened with the servant with 2 talents. However, the servant with 1 talent went and hid it and then offered it back (unused) when required to provide an account as to what he had done with his master's money.
The parable ends by the Master (Jesus) casting his 1 talent "...wicked and slothful servant" into "...into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth" in the Parable of the Talents, and "...slaying before Him his slothful servant" in the Parable of the Pounds. These parables refer to Christians who have failed to become "SERVANTS of Jesus Christ" in this life (Matthew 25:14-30) - meaning, most of today's 1 talent Christians.
On the other hand, Christians who truly serve God the Father and Jesus Christ by doing their will and produce the required quantity of spiritual "FRUIT" into God's kingdom (John 15:1-8) these will hear the following words said to them by Jesus Christ the moment their work on Earth is completed:
RUNNING GOD’S RACE
The Bible says that God has arranged for every Christian to "RUN" in the "RACE" that he has set before them to "RUN" to ensure they become the mature Child of God that He requires them to be.
SUMMARY
Any comments you have would be appreciated Chris
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Hello Chris,
Thank you for posting your response to my question.
There are many other Christians I have asked the same question to and for those few who responded, most provided the same comments as you have.
I believe that there is far more to Paul's statement than simply directing his words to the Jews and not the Gentiles. As this is a Salvation issue, I feel we need to be more circumspect in this matter.
Nevertheless, I do appreciate you giving me your time.
Blessings Chris!
Alan
Hello Chris,
Thank you for posting your response to my question.
There are many other Christians I have asked the same question to and for those few who responded, most provided the same comments as you have.
I believe that there is far more to Paul's statement than simply directing his words to the Jews and not the Gentiles. As this is a Salvation issue, I feel we need to be more circumspect in this matter.
Nevertheless, I do appreciate you giving me your time.
Blessings Chris!
Alan
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1
- Show all