you can only find that in one translation, and it's almost certainly talking about some form of homosexuality. What's effeminate to one may not be to another.
Yes, but the Bible, not the current culture, determines a man and a woman.
you can only find that in one translation, and it's almost certainly talking about some form of homosexuality. What's effeminate to one may not be to another.
definately, I've made that argument for ages now.Yes, but the Bible, not the current culture, determines a man and a woman.
you can only find that in one translation, and it's almost certainly talking about some form of homosexuality. What's effeminate to one may not be to another.
I've actually heard people say that about jacob, the "nor effeminate" verse is seriously overused and abused as a bashing verse to accuse guys of all kinds of things.Jacob was probably effeminate compared to Esau, Jacob was a homebody who kept house and cooked, and he openly wept when he met Rachel because he was so overcome with emotion at her beauty. What's interesting is that Isaac loved Esau, whom God hated
And the boys grew: and Esau was a cunning hunter, a man of the field; and Jacob was a plain man, dwelling in tents. And Isaac loved Esau, because he did eat of his venison: but Rebekah loved Jacob. Genesis 25:27-28PlainH8535 תָּם tam (tawm) adj.1. complete.2. (usually, morally) pious.3. (specifically) gentle, dear.
you can only find that in one translation, and it's almost certainly talking about some form of homosexuality. What's effeminate to one may not be to another.
you're probably right. it may not be super common but men's skirts for non-crossdressers are a thing, there's a few manufacturers making them for men now.Euphemisms:
I agree, the context of 1Co.6:9 seems to make this a clear euphemism for homosexuality. Euphemisms were often used in scripture for this behavior.
(It is interesting though, and telling, that it uses this particular euphemism.)
We also have some clear prohibitions against things like cross-dressing. And when we see those passages, they too have the connotation of homosexual conduct. So the problem with cross-dressing is a lot deeper than WHAT you are wearing; the real problem is WHY you are wearing it.
Cross Dressing:
It's principally an issue of intent.
If your wife puts on one of your manly shirts, it's probably not because she wants to be a man.
It's probably because your shirt is comfy, and cozy, and probably makes her feel secure... it makes her think of you.
She isn't trying to be a man.
Now, if she was wearing all your clothes, along with drawing on a mustache, and she was roaming around pretending to be a bloke... then you'd need some counseling.
Apologetics & Debate:
So if we remember this is all about INTENT, then we're armed to fend off all the attacks from progressives trying to justify cross-dressing by bringing up men in ancient times wearing skirts or long robes. A man in ancient Greece may have worn something like a skirt, but it was still a "man's" skirt, and something appropriate for a man to wear in that culture. If he was TRYING to look like a woman... then that was a different matter.
(Note on Ancient Greece:
Despite all the progressive re-interpretations of history, not everyone in ancient Greece was gay, and it was not something the majority participated in, and it was not considered normative. In reality, their entire view of sexuality was so different than modern culture that they really didn't have a concept of men who ONLY had relationships with men. Homosexuality did exist, as a behavior, but they had no equivalent to the modern concept of "gay" as either an identity or as an exclusive preference. Modern views simply don't apply to the ancient world.)
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you're probably right. it may not be super common but men's skirts for non-crossdressers are a thing, there's a few manufacturers making them for men now.
aside from kilts there are a few other options marketed to western men.
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wrong on all counts.Tradition & Intent:
For a Scotsman to wear a kilt, where it is a part of their tradition and culture, it is perfectly normal and masculine.
But for Americans who are not Scotsmen, we have no such tradition. In fact we have a completely opposite tradition: in our culture it is considered feminine, and nothing but feminine... so it would seem that men in American culture who want to wear skirts are trying to look feminine.
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wrong on all counts.
American culture is way past that point, ever hear of utiilty kilt? they're fairly popular here in the northwest.If you are in a culture where it's only normative for women to wear skirts, and it's your desire to wear a skirt and look like a woman... you are free to do so.
Please don't go out without your panties... it's getting to be cold weather.
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Please don't go out without your panties... it's getting to be cold weather.
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Actually, that distinction is determined by genetic processes, which in turn are determined by God's design. The Bible tells us the facts but does not do the determining.Yes, but the Bible, not the current culture, determines a man and a woman.
If you are in a culture where it's only normative for women to wear skirts, and it's your desire to wear a skirt and look like a woman... you are free to do so.
Please don't go out without your panties... it's getting to be cold weather.
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A little light hearted discussion wasn't sure if this was the place but here it is.. The bible gives us some guidelines such as the prohibition of full blown crossdressing, homosexuality and a few basics, however so much is labeled by society, some of which doesn't correspond to anything in the bible I know of. I comprised a sample list taken from reddit of things someone deemed "feminine", how many do you agree with or wish to debunk some are pretty ridiculous. I omitted the more lewd and/or inappropriate ones.
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3. picking and arranging flowers.
4. sewing and crotchet.
5. romantic tv
6. the color purple
7. long baths
8. matching the color of your clothes.
9. sharing "feelings"
10.hugging
11. clothes shopping
12. sitting with legs crossed.
13. blended cocktails
Apparently they've never watched Kitchen Nightmares and heard Ramsey talk.14. cooking
15. liking cute things
16. color pink
17. leg shaving 18. wearing a cross-shoulder bag(glorified purse)
19. wearing tights/hose
20. wearing skirt(be they made for men or not)
21. crying
22. being kind, gentle, and compassionate.