Denominations are Inevitable

[ParticularWife]

By the decree of God, all things are ordained, including the existence of denominations. The fragmentation of humanity at Babel and the corruption of man's mind and heart due to the Fall make it certain that divisions will arise in the church. Because of these effects, men possess differing perspectives, traditions, biases, and incomplete knowledge, even within the household of faith. This diversity of thought and understanding is inevitable in this present world.

The Holy Spirit, who alone illumines the Word, does so according to the sovereign will of God. Illumination is given in measure, suited to God's purposes, and never exhaustively or instantaneously. Even God's people, redeemed by grace, remain finite and sinful, unable to grasp the fullness of divine truth. Consequently, disagreements about doctrine and practice will arise.

Furthermore, certain questions of church administration and theological conviction are of such significance that they necessitate separate ecclesiastical bodies. While some divisions may arise from poor reasons—pride, ignorance, or selfish ambition—others stem from a faithful desire to preserve the truth and maintain the purity of the church. In such cases, separation is not merely unavoidable but required by obedience to Christ.

It must be emphasized, however, that denominations do not "divide the church." The true church is one, catholic, and apostolic, as it is the body of Christ, gathered and preserved by God through His Word and Spirit. Denominations are simply earthly expressions of this one church, organized according to differing convictions about doctrine, worship, and governance. Just as congregationalism do not fracture the unity of the body, so too denominations do not destroy the unity of the church.

The error of the "me and my Bible" crowd must be exposed. Such an approach is a rebellion against biblical ecclesiology, which commands Christians to submit to the church as an organized body governed by elders, administering the Word and sacraments in Christ's name. Avoidance of denominations and naive Biblicism does not eliminate division but instead fosters chaos and neglects the church's divine mandate.

Indeed, because God sovereignly governs all things, the existence of denominations serves His purposes. They reveal the diversity of gifts within the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12), preserving various strengths and emphases that contribute to the church's mission in the world. The Reformed tradition, by God's grace, stands firmly upon the truth of Scripture. Yet, we must acknowledge that other traditions may excel in areas where we are weak. God uses even these imperfections to shape and sanctify His church.

Finally, we must remember the "already-not-yet" nature of the kingdom of God. In this present age, the church lives in the tension between her heavenly calling and her earthly imperfections. Denominations, while a sign of this tension, are also a means by which God accomplishes His purposes for His people.

Let us, therefore, cease to grumble against God's providence in the existence of denominations. Instead, let us strive to honor Him through faithful participation in the visible church, recognizing that all things, including denominations, are under His sovereign control and are used for His glory and the good of His people.

Denominations are a Good Thing - Redeemed Zoomer

 

[Magenta]

the existence of denominations.

One thing I find interesting is how many seem willing to accept the claim without investigation
into the facts of the matter, that there are as many as 33,000 to 45,000 denominations.

 

[Eli1]

Since you mentioned Babel, i use that example with atheist and science a lot.
They, in their arrogant ways want to prove themselves to God about their "knowledge" while not realizing that the more you know, the more humble you should become.
It's a way that God has made for us in this Creation to tell us that we know nothing and we must have Faith first.
This is what the Tower of Babel story teaches us. Humility and Faith.
Not arrogance and self-reliance.

 

[ResidentAlien]

"Leave them! They are blind guides of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit." Matthew 15:14

 

[JaumeJ]

When the Apostles were yet with us, it was written that apostasy was alre4ady present among believers.
Our Lord and Savior has taught us openly the Apostasy would abound before He returns. By the simple fact that denominations disagree and argue their stance alone is a blaring example as to how this is already extant in the world.
Personally, I cannot simply decide on which to assume , holding to the teaching of our Lo9rd, Jesus Yeshua, that we are become all, children of Abraham, all who believe.
Abraham may be translated into English. He is our Honored Father of the Nations. or Peoples.

 

[maxwel]

The arguments in the Opening Post are interesting and insightful, but they're also far from conclusive.

I think we're still left with a lot of issues.

I'll explain more when I have time.

.

 

[JaumeJ]

When the Apostles were yet with us, it was written that apostasy was alre4ady present among believers.
Our Lord and Savior has taught us openly the Apostasy would abound before He returns. By the simple fact that denominations disagree and argue their stance alone is a blaring example as to how this is already extant in the world.
Personally, I cannot simply decide on which to assume , holding to the teaching of our Lo9rd, Jesus Yeshua, that we are become all, children of Abraham, all who believe.
Abraham may be translated into English. He is our Honored Father of the Nations. or Peoples.

PS I believe all who call upon Je4sus Yeshua in Spirit and Truth are my family in Him, so do not get excited when I revert to the closest I am able to the Language He spoke to us. Please, doo not come back at me with the unfounded debate that He was always speaking in Greek, please.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

By the decree of God, all things are ordained, including the existence of denominations. The fragmentation of humanity at Babel and the corruption of man's mind and heart due to the Fall make it certain that divisions will arise in the church. Because of these effects, men possess differing perspectives, traditions, biases, and incomplete knowledge, even within the household of faith. This diversity of thought and understanding is inevitable in this present world.

The Holy Spirit, who alone illumines the Word, does so according to the sovereign will of God. Illumination is given in measure, suited to God's purposes, and never exhaustively or instantaneously. Even God's people, redeemed by grace, remain finite and sinful, unable to grasp the fullness of divine truth. Consequently, disagreements about doctrine and practice will arise.

Furthermore, certain questions of church administration and theological conviction are of such significance that they necessitate separate ecclesiastical bodies. While some divisions may arise from poor reasons—pride, ignorance, or selfish ambition—others stem from a faithful desire to preserve the truth and maintain the purity of the church. In such cases, separation is not merely unavoidable but required by obedience to Christ.

It must be emphasized, however, that denominations do not "divide the church." The true church is one, catholic, and apostolic, as it is the body of Christ, gathered and preserved by God through His Word and Spirit. Denominations are simply earthly expressions of this one church, organized according to differing convictions about doctrine, worship, and governance. Just as congregationalism do not fracture the unity of the body, so too denominations do not destroy the unity of the church.

The error of the "me and my Bible" crowd must be exposed. Such an approach is a rebellion against biblical ecclesiology, which commands Christians to submit to the church as an organized body governed by elders, administering the Word and sacraments in Christ's name. Avoidance of denominations and naive Biblicism does not eliminate division but instead fosters chaos and neglects the church's divine mandate.

Indeed, because God sovereignly governs all things, the existence of denominations serves His purposes. They reveal the diversity of gifts within the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12), preserving various strengths and emphases that contribute to the church's mission in the world. The Reformed tradition, by God's grace, stands firmly upon the truth of Scripture. Yet, we must acknowledge that other traditions may excel in areas where we are weak. God uses even these imperfections to shape and sanctify His church.

Finally, we must remember the "already-not-yet" nature of the kingdom of God. In this present age, the church lives in the tension between her heavenly calling and her earthly imperfections. Denominations, while a sign of this tension, are also a means by which God accomplishes His purposes for His people.

Let us, therefore, cease to grumble against God's providence in the existence of denominations. Instead, let us strive to honor Him through faithful participation in the visible church, recognizing that all things, including denominations, are under His sovereign control and are used for His glory and the good of His people.

Denominations are a Good Thing - Redeemed Zoomer

The Great schism and protestant revolution for us looking back is obvious that God used division to secure truth and to protect the sanctity of His Word. Divide is good when done in truth and in opposition to heretical teachings. I suppose the real argument is how far will people go to be united and how far should error go before it becomes worthy of divide.

 

[Wansvic]

By the decree of God, all things are ordained, including the existence of denominations. ...

I disagree that denominations are by the decree of God. Why? Because the word of God states there is a common salvation. And in order to find it requires searching out the faith (doctrine/teaching) first delivered to the saints/apostles. (Jude 3) The Apostle Paul pointed out that God expects all to come into unity of the faith. (Eph. 4:11-15)

A careful study of denominational teachings indicate each accepts some scripture while rejecting others. This should not be. For it is in the sum of God's word that truth is found. (Psalms 119:160)


"Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints." Jude 3


"And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:" Eph 4:11-15


"Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever." Ps 119:160

 

[keepingthingsreal]

It must be emphasized, however, that denominations do not "divide the church." The true church is one, catholic, and apostolic, as it is the body of Christ, gathered and preserved by God through His Word and Spirit. Denominations are simply earthly expressions of this one church, organized according to differing convictions about doctrine, worship, and governance. Just as congregationalism do not fracture the unity of the body, so too denominations do not destroy the unity of the church.

Actually, denominations are the result of carnal schisms or divisions.

For starters, the word denominate means to give a name to or to designate. Do we see any evidence of denominations forming in scripture? Yes, as a matter of fact, we do.

1Co 1:10
Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
1Co 1:11
For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.
1Co 1:12
Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
1Co 1:13
Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
1Co 1:14
I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
1Co 1:15
Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
1Co 1:16
And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
1Co 1:17
For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

Even in Paul's day, there were divisions and contentions among professing believers, and those divisions were the direct result of the carnality of the people, even as Paul later went on to declare.

1Co 3:1
And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
1Co 3:2
I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
1Co 3:3
For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
1Co 3:4
For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
1Co 3:5
Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
1Co 3:6
I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
1Co 3:7
So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

Far from telling his hearers

Indeed, because God sovereignly governs all things, the existence of denominations serves His purposes. They reveal the diversity of gifts within the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12), preserving various strengths and emphases that contribute to the church's mission in the world.

Paul told them that they were a bunch of carnal babies who were associating themselves with names other than the name of Christ.

The Reformed tradition, by God's grace, stands firmly upon the truth of Scripture.

Not even close.

 

[ParticularWife]

Actually, denominations are the result of carnal schisms or divisions.

For starters, the word denominate means to give a name to or to designate. Do we see any evidence of denominations forming in scripture? Yes, as a matter of fact, we do.

1Co 1:10
Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
1Co 1:11
For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.
1Co 1:12
Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
1Co 1:13
Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
1Co 1:14
I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
1Co 1:15
Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
1Co 1:16
And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
1Co 1:17
For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

Even in Paul's day, there were divisions and contentions among professing believers, and those divisions were the direct result of the carnality of the people, even as Paul later went on to declare.

1Co 3:1
And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
1Co 3:2
I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
1Co 3:3
For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
1Co 3:4
For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
1Co 3:5
Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
1Co 3:6
I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
1Co 3:7
So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

Far from telling his hearers
Paul told them that they were a bunch of carnal babies who were associating themselves with names other than the name of Christ.
Not even close.

Amazing, bye

 

[keepingthingsreal]

Amazing, bye

Rightly divided scripture gets them every time.

 

[ParticularWife]

One thing I find interesting is how many seem willing to accept the claim without investigation
into the facts of the matter, that there are as many as 33,000 to 45,000 denominations.

This is from a degradation of English, frankly. Denomination used to mean distinctive traditions with a particular theology and ecclesiology, now it just means "a 401c". Most of the Baptists and NDs are, at least on de jure statements of belief, clearly the same denomination, in the original sense.

 

[hornetguy]

PS I believe all who call upon Je4sus Yeshua in Spirit and Truth are my family in Him, so do not get excited when I revert to the closest I am able to the Language He spoke to us. Please, doo not come back at me with the unfounded debate that He was always speaking in Greek, please.

hmmmm.... I thought that Jesus' native tongue was Aramaic.... ?

 

[ParticularWife]

hmmmm.... I thought that Jesus' native tongue was Aramaic.... ?

He probably knew Greek, anyway. What he definitely didn't speak was modern Hebrew, because it didn't exist.

 

[jacko]

If you believe in the God the father, the Son as the risen Christ and savior and Holy spirit, truly and deeply with faith and from your heart, then the rest is just noise. I include, Catholics, Orthodox and all the mainline Protestant denominations as one church.

 

[ParticularWife]

If you believe in the God the father, the Son as the risen Christ and savior and Holy spirit, truly and deeply with faith and from your heart, then the rest is just noise. I include, Catholics, Orthodox and all the mainline Protestant denominations as one church.

I consider some of them to be part of the invisible church. But I don't think the RCC (the hierarchy) itself is part of the visible church. It's far worse now than when we first parted ways. The medieval church read closer to Presbyterians and Baptists than its post-Reformation ultramontanist legalism.

 

[maxwel]

This is from a degradation of English, frankly. Denomination used to mean distinctive traditions with a particular theology and ecclesiology, now it just means "a 401c". Most of the Baptists and NDs are, at least on de jure statements of belief, clearly the same denomination, in the original sense.

I'm not very bright, and I'm easily confused, so you'll have to clear up a lot of things for me.


To start with, in your opening post, you indicate there are a lot of denominations with great differences, and here you seem to indicate that there are NOT such great differences.

So are there lots of denominations with "theological conviction... of such significance that they necessitate separate ecclesiastical bodies" as you first stated, or are most denominations "clearly the same denomination" as you stated last?



Please go ahead and include enough specificity that it clears up my confusion.. because I have trouble with things.

Thank you.

.

 

[ParticularWife]

To start with, in your opening post, you indicate there are a lot of denominations with great differences, and here you seem to indicate that there are NOT such great differences.
.

The real denomimational differences are things like paedobaptism, which make shared administration impossible. But a lot of 'denominations', especially in the USA, are only legally separate organizations, theologically and pastorally most of them General or Regular Baptist. They would just be considered part of the Particular or General Baptist denominations in the past.

Separate formal administration is not a division or even a denomination, after all, every congregational denomination has independent administration of every church.

 

[maxwel]

The real denomimational differences are things like paedobaptism, which make shared administration impossible. But a lot of 'denominations', especially in the USA, are only legally separate organizations, theologically and pastorally most of them General or Regular Baptist. They would just be considered part of the Particular or General Baptist denominations in the past.

Separate formal administration is not a division or even a denomination, after all, every congregational denomination has independent administration of every church.

So your position is that some denominations are denominations and some denominations are not denominations, and your definition of denomination is based purely on doctrinal differences and nothing else?

Is that accurate?


(it's hard to discuss a thing if we're all using different definitions. And since you're the OP, it's your obligation to explain your definitions.)

.