Applying God's Word to Politics

[GWH]

Anytime you're talking to me... please go ahead and make the answer obvious.
: )

I said "Yes", indicating that I agreed with your answer ,"We should probably be careful that we don't accidentally minimize the seriousness of sin", and then I built upon it with "and we should not minimize the truth that the root reason the UK condones sin is because not many accept Christ, and thus the KOG is not salting and enlightening British society sufficiently to resist such evil."
So go ahead and build upon what I answered if you would like.

 

[GWH]

Applying Christian beliefs to politics can be challenging, especially when it comes to complex issues such as national borders, abortion, and Lawfare. To navigate these issues, it's essential to consider the principles of loving our neighbors, caring for the vulnerable, and promoting justice.

Yes, indeed, and if you would like to navigate an issue, please lead on! :^)

 

[tinathebookworm]

Regarding Abortion, Christians can engage in respectful and empathetic dialogue with those who hold different views. I oppose on moral grounds. Some people I love advocate for 'women's reproductive rights' and access to safe and legal abortion services. Ultimately, Christians can work towards creating a society that supports women's health, education, and economic empowerment, reducing the perceived need for abortion.

 

[GWH]

Why do people do anything that they do?
Free will !

A multitude of past events can help shed light as i mentioned in another topic with you regarding abusive Christian parents.
The child, in rebellion will reject their parents and the Christian faith and will turn head-on into sin just in spite.
This is just one example by the way. Because it could be many other reasons.

So we all have been shaped by the environment and culture (which also includes politics).
Why did the U.S. Democratic party switch from protecting people's rights into protecting people's feelings?
Do you know? It's very hard for me to pin down specific moments starting from the Bill Clinton era.

JFK today is considered a Republican compared to how the Democratic party

Yes, we are shaped by heredity and environment, but not determined--even by God--or else volition/moral accountability is an illusion and God's POS is a tragi-farce, although how volition works (like a lot of "hows" although we are getting better at weather forecasting, cf. JN 3:8) is a mystery.

 

[GWH]

Regarding Abortion, Christians can engage in respectful and empathetic dialogue with those who hold different views. I oppose on moral grounds. Some people I love advocate for 'women's reproductive rights' and access to safe and legal abortion services. Ultimately, Christians can work towards creating a society that supports women's health, education, and economic empowerment, reducing the perceived need for abortion.

Yes, and I would underline fetal "education" for everyone of high school age, because in my own case I was a naive "pro choice" person at age 25 until I contemplated photos of a 7-month-old fetus in the womb and a 7-month-old "premie" just out of the womb and realized there was nothing different other than mode of nourishment, so I finally realized that abortion after at least the stage of viability must be murder.

 

[studier]

I oppose on moral grounds

Will you elaborate?

reducing the perceived need for abortion.

Same request. Why do you think there is a perceived need and what is that perception?

Yes, and I would underline fetal "education" for everyone of high school age

Seems a good idea. Also seems it should be at minimum early high school age.

I saw some interesting data here: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/03/25/what-the-data-says-about-abortion-in-the-us/

At quick glance the downward trend for me was unexpected. What wasn't unexpected was the high marks being in the 1990's after almost a vertical line since the early 1970's. This data shows legal abortions.

What does it say for and against legalization in the Biblical sense that Torah at its base actually means instruction? IOW how does instructing a normalcy of the procedure do anything ultimately beneficial to the overall culture knowing what we know about God's blessing good and punishing bad?

How is it possible as salt and light to not speak, promote legislation (which is at root instruction), vote for that which we know from God is good for the society? IOW vote our Faith? If it's not our Faith it's others' beliefs.

Going a bit deeper, since we know from Rom1 that God has made Himself known to all, then why should we coddle those who reject Him especially when as Paul continues in Rom1, we're told that at some point of rejection God turns such people over to their "worthless" (translated as "reprobate" by some) minds? So, as we coddle God rejectors who when reaching a certain mass are bringing God's judgment (IOW when we see the proliferation in that growing mass we're seeing His judgment in action as He's turning more and more over to their own minds), why do we put up with it as part of the society being judged?

I haven't even gotten to the issue of Jesus Christ yet. I've stopped at general revelation and I'll end at the remainder of Rom1 that speaks of man knowing the righteous judgment of God but having no concern with it. Is this the people group any society should coddle and tolerate beyond some decided point?

In Israel it was love for neighbor to rebuke those who were out of line. Maybe the needed education is to teach Christians what out of line means. Thus my first request to elaborate on "morality".

This is not meant to be just about abortion but for every point of so-called politics.

 

[studier]

Feel free to start something

In a small way I just did in #626 without redirecting the thread. Isn't the question for us always what the mark is we are to aim for, the standard we don't want to deviate from so we don't stumble or fall? And how are we to love neighbor by not informing them of the rocks and forks (hope this translates to Albanian!?) in the road?

 

[GWH]

Will you elaborate?



Same request. Why do you think there is a perceived need and what is that perception?



Seems a good idea. Also seems it should be at minimum early high school age.

I saw some interesting data here: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/03/25/what-the-data-says-about-abortion-in-the-us/

At quick glance the downward trend for me was unexpected. What wasn't unexpected was the high marks being in the 1990's after almost a vertical line since the early 1970's. This data shows legal abortions.

What does it say for and against legalization in the Biblical sense that Torah at its base actually means instruction? IOW how does instructing a normalcy of the procedure do anything ultimately beneficial to the overall culture knowing what we know about God's blessing good and punishing bad?

How is it possible as salt and light to not speak, promote legislation (which is at root instruction), vote for that which we know from God is good for the society? IOW vote our Faith? If it's not our Faith it's others' beliefs.

Going a bit deeper, since we know from Rom1 that God has made Himself known to all, then why should we coddle those who reject Him especially when as Paul continues in Rom1, we're told that at some point of rejection God turns such people over to their "worthless" (translated as "reprobate" by some) minds? So, as we coddle God rejectors who when reaching a certain mass are bringing God's judgment (IOW when we see the proliferation in that growing mass we're seeing His judgment in action as He's turning more and more over to their own minds), why do we put up with it as part of the society being judged?

I haven't even gotten to the issue of Jesus Christ yet. I've stopped at general revelation and I'll end at the remainder of Rom1 that speaks of man knowing the righteous judgment of God but having no concern with it. Is this the people group any society should coddle and tolerate beyond some decided point?

In Israel it was love for neighbor to rebuke those who were out of line. Maybe the needed education is to teach Christians what out of line means. Thus my first request to elaborate on "morality".

This is not meant to be just about abortion but for every point of so-called politics.

I find your use of "coddle" can be compared and contrasted with Scripture's use of "warn". Ezekiel 3 and 33 commands warning sinners or else we will be guilty, and we find several references to warning in the NT, but TIT 3:10-11 seems to be most relevant: "Warn a divisive person [those who reject GW] once, and then warn them a second time [instead of forgiving them 70 x 7 times]. After that, have nothing to do with them [imprison them?]. You may be sure that such people are warped [menatlly ill?] and sinful [intentionally criminal?]; they are self-condemned [to prison or death?]."

 

[Eli1]

In a small way I just did in #626 without redirecting the thread. Isn't the question for us always what the mark is we are to aim for, the standard we don't want to deviate from so we don't stumble or fall? And how are we to love neighbor by not informing them of the rocks and forks (hope this translates to Albanian!?) in the road?

This is usually done by doing first and speaking after. This is the understanding where i come from and the church.
My culture is similar to the Jews in a lot of ways.
For example in Job 2:11-13 we see his friends just sitting with him in silence for a week before even saying anything.
So this is how we start, by doing first and speaking after.
Of course this is one approach and i'm not saying it's the only one, and some people learn by doing or seeing and some others want a more intellectual answer in order to persuade them to take a good path in the road.

 

[studier]

I find your use of "coddle" can be compared and contrasted with Scripture's use of "warn". Ezekiel 3 and 33 commands warning sinners or else we will be guilty, and we find several references to warning in the NT, but TIT 3:10-11 seems to be most relevant: "Warn a divisive person [those who reject GW] once, and then warn them a second time [instead of forgiving them 70 x 7 times]. After that, have nothing to do with them [imprison them?]. You may be sure that such people are warped [menatlly ill?] and sinful [intentionally criminal?]; they are self-condemned [to prison or death?]."

Coddle vs. warn is a good contrast.

Looking at Titus3 glancing from 3:1-11 and landing on 3:9 for a moment, what do you think the highlighted phrase means?

​

NET Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, quarrels, and fights about the law, because they are useless and empty.​

​

Since Paul is dealing with what to do and not to do as a Christian, and since we're somewhat in the mode of discussing sin while the topic is politics, what is he saying about law (since sin is lawlessness)?​

 

[GWH]

Coddle vs. warn is a good contrast.

Looking at Titus3 glancing from 3:1-11 and landing on 3:9 for a moment, what do you think the highlighted phrase means?

​

NET Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, quarrels, and fights about the law, because they are useless and empty.​

​

Since Paul is dealing with what to do and not to do as a Christian, and since we're somewhat in the mode of discussing sin while the topic is politics, what is he saying about law (since sin is lawlessness)?​

Well I found folks wasting time arguing about Sabbath law on a thread.