Are giants the offspring of angels and humans?

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Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#141
Jul 3, 2015
61,871
30,868
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#141
Leastofall said:
Please read Gen 3:15 don't have my bible handy but I believe it's the one.
Click to expand...
Genesis 3:15

New International Version
And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your
offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel.

New Living Translation
And I will cause hostility between you and the woman, and between your offspring
and her offspring. He will strike your head, and you will strike his heel.

English Standard Version
I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring
and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel.

Berean Standard Bible
And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your
seed and her seed. He will crush your head, and you will strike his heel.

King James Bible
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed
and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

New King James Version
And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed
and her Seed; He shall bruise your head, And you shall bruise His heel.

New American Standard Bible
And I will make enemies Of you and the woman, And of your offspring and her
Descendant; He shall bruise you on the head, And you shall bruise Him on the heel.

NASB 1995
And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and
her seed; He shall bruise you on the head, And you shall bruise him on the heel.

NASB 1977
And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and
her seed; He shall bruise you on the head, And you shall bruise him on the heel.​
 
Mem

Mem

Senior Member
#142
Sep 23, 2014
7,305
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#142
Mem said:
the angel which spoke to Menoah asking, "why do you ask my name, seeing that it is wonderful" was effectively asking something like, "Why are you trying to pinpoint infinity?"

*will return with further thoughts on the war in heaven when "Michael and his angels fought with the Dragon and his angels..."
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Experiencing a connection outage so, wanted to make sure could post without interruption and losing the thoughts this discussion is currently generating.

If it is possible that all the manifestations of the angels of the LORD are indeed different manifestation of the LORD, in person, and He is infinite, then it is likewise possible that the fallen angels, or the Dragon's angels may manifest similarly, except these would be finite. And it would follow that finite would not possess any power to overcome the infinite...

I'm tapped into something significant here if there is truth to this 'revelation.' :unsure:
 
Mem

Mem

Senior Member
#143
Sep 23, 2014
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#143
The implication of this theory, if fact, will take more than a minute in consideration, concerning fallen angels actually 'putting on flesh' anyway, but that their influence upon 'sons of God,' as referring to men, wouldn't be as troublesome in acceptance as a viable possibility. Great men fall all too often in example, beginning with the first 'son of God' by the Dragon's influence.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#144
Jul 3, 2015
61,871
30,868
113
#144
Mem said:
The implication of this theory, if fact, will take more than a minute in consideration, concerning fallen angels actually 'putting on flesh' anyway, but that their influence upon 'sons of God,' as referring to men, wouldn't be as troublesome in acceptance as a viable possibility. Great men fall all too often in example, beginning with the first 'son of God' by the Dragon's influence.
Click to expand...
There is still no record of any angel taking on human flesh aside from the express will of God.
Adam sinned deliberately. Was he influenced by the Dragon, or his wife, who was deceived?
 
L

Leastofall

Member
#145
Nov 3, 2024
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#145
Pilgrimshope said:
Yes remember there was the line of cain who murdered abel

“And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden. And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch. And unto Enoch was born Irad: and Irad begat Mehujael: and Mehujael begat Methusael: and Methusael begat Lamech. And Lamech took unto him two wives: the name of the one was Adah, and the name of the other Zillah. And Adah bare Jabal: he was the father of such as dwell in tents, and of such as have cattle. And his brother's name was Jubal: he was the father of all such as handle the harp and organ. And Zillah, she also bare Tubal-cain, an instructer of every artificer in brass and iron: and the sister of Tubal-cain was Naamah.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭4:16-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

as d then there was another line of men beginning with Seth who was given by God to replace abel. And his line began to call on the lords name and would be who is referenced as “ the sons of God “

“And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew. And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭4:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬
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Then men called upon the name of the Lord is a mis quote from the original.
Actually the scripture reads.....then men began to profane the word of the Lord.
In both lines of Seth and Abel were good and bad. Cain off spring for example had names that reflected God's name in them.
I personally don't hold the view of the Cain and Seth line.

How the angels left there first estate remains a mystery but it was done. Satan's attack on the human gene pool fits better when we read about Noah. He was not contaminated. We see also that giants were in the land after words with Joshua's spy's and David and Goliath.
Many of the ancient religions also record giants.
Also if you look at the roman pagan gods you will notice all kinds of freaks that are renowned. Just a few examples.
If everyone except Noah's family perish how did the giants survive? Are these the demons Jesus rebuked when he walked the earth?
Also his teaching on house cleaning comes to mind.
Why did the men in Sodom "prize" the angles. Very interesting study GEN 6.

Just thought I'd share what I have found.
 
L

Leastofall

Member
#146
Nov 3, 2024
72
38
18
#146
Magenta said:
Genesis 3:15

​
New International Version
And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your
offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel.

New Living Translation
And I will cause hostility between you and the woman, and between your offspring
and her offspring. He will strike your head, and you will strike his heel.

English Standard Version
I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring
and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel.

Berean Standard Bible
And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your
seed and her seed. He will crush your head, and you will strike his heel.

King James Bible
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed
and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

New King James Version
And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed
and her Seed; He shall bruise your head, And you shall bruise His heel.

New American Standard Bible
And I will make enemies Of you and the woman, And of your offspring and her
Descendant; He shall bruise you on the head, And you shall bruise Him on the heel.

NASB 1995
And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and
her seed; He shall bruise you on the head, And you shall bruise him on the heel.

NASB 1977
And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and
her seed; He shall bruise you on the head, And you shall bruise him on the heel.
Click to expand...
Thank you sis
 
Mem

Mem

Senior Member
#147
Sep 23, 2014
7,305
2,229
113
#147
What does it really matter whether the Nephilim were offspring of angels or humans, really though? Does it make them more or less ungodly? more or less irredeemable? And if so, how?
How many more questions will this thought generate? Will I ever arrive at a definitive answer? It's interesting enough to keep me in pursuit of a more clear conclusion, but when that happens is yet TBD.

Magenta said:
There is still no record of any angel taking on human flesh aside from the express will of God.
Adam sinned deliberately. Was he influenced by the Dragon, or his wife, who was deceived?
Click to expand...
I still haven't fully rejected the idea that Adam can be determined as "in the garden when"...
 
C

ChristRoseFromTheDead

Well-known member
#151
Nov 1, 2024
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#151
John146 said:
What Jesus said doesn’t nullify other characteristics. It’s true, angels are ministering spirits. But they can also take on human form. Didn’t Jesus?

Did the angels with Abraham eat? Yes. Grab hold of Lot? Yes.

Genesis is just as valid as the words of Jesus. All of it is scripture and can be trusted as truth. Easy to reconcile both.
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But they are not flesh and bone.They are spiritual beings not like humans. They may be able to appear as men, eat and grab people, but that doesn't mean they can be felt or digest food. Do you think they digest food and poop? I've seen Angelsoft TP in stores that said it's heavenly, but I had no idea that's what it meant or was used for
 
L

lrs68

Active member
#152
Dec 30, 2024
250
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#152
The angels (2) with Abraham ate the meal and drank what Sarah prepared. A spirit could not do that. They were so human like the men of Sodom wanted to have sex with them.
 
ResidentAlien

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
#153
Apr 21, 2021
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#153
I'm close to changing my mind after watching this video. He makes a very clear and convincing case that the "sons of God" were angels. He also doesn't think the Nephilim were the offspring of angels and humans; and he believes the Book of Enoch is myth. Good video.

 
J

John146

Senior Member
#154
Jan 13, 2016
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#154
Dino246 said:
Nowhere in Scripture does it state that "all angels are males". At best you can state that all angels whose gender is identified are male. That is... what, two? Three? Five? How many angels are there? At least ten thousand times ten thousand (100,000,000).

You're making the error of (gross) extrapolation.
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Identified as male? Have you gone woke on us?😂

Ok, every angel mentioned in the Bible is male. But let’s compare scripture with scripture. If every angel mentioned is male, then what can we concur from the following?

Matthew 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

If in the resurrection, we will be as angels, and angels of God in heaven do not marry, than we may be able to concur that the reason angels do not marry in heaven is because they are all male. Therefore, in the resurrection we will all be male. I know it sounds like a crazy Ruckman theory, but it is a valid point.

Ephesians 3:15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#155
Jan 13, 2016
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#155
Dino246 said:
Wrong. Angels are messengers. Some messengers are human, some appear as human, and some are distinctly not human.

Since you say to compare scripture to scripture, compare these:

Genesis 28:12 And he dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven: and behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it.

Genesis 31:11 And the angel of God spake unto me in a dream, saying, Jacob: And I said, Here am I.

Exodus 3:2 And the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush

Numbers 22:23 And the ass saw the angel of the Lord standing in the way, and his sword drawn in his hand: and the ass turned aside out of the way, and went into the field

Judges 6:21 Then the angel of the Lord put forth the end of the staff that was in his hand, and touched the flesh and the unleavened cakes; and there rose up fire out of the rock, and consumed the flesh and the unleavened cakes. Then the angel of the Lord departed out of his sight.

Judges 13:20 For it came to pass, when the flame went up toward heaven from off the altar, that the angel of the Lord ascended in the flame of the altar.

2 Samuel 24:15-16a So the Lord sent a pestilence upon Israel from the morning even to the time appointed: and there died of the people from Dan even to Beersheba seventy thousand men. And when the angel stretched out his hand upon Jerusalem to destroy it, the Lord repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed the people, It is enough: stay now thine hand.

2 Kings 19:35 And it came to pass that night, that the angel of the Lord went out, and smote in the camp of the Assyrians an hundred fourscore and five thousand:

Psalm 78:25 Man did eat angels' food

Matthew 2:13 And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise

Matthew 4:11 Then the devil leaveth him, and, behold, angels came and ministered unto him.

Matthew 18:10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.

Matthew 28:2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.

Luke 1:11-12 And there appeared unto him an angel of the Lord standing on the right side of the altar of incense. And when Zacharias saw him, he was troubled, and fear fell upon him.

John 20:12 And seeth two angels in white sitting, the one at the head, and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain.

Acts 5:19 But the angel of the Lord by night opened the prison doors, and brought them forth

Acts 12:23 And immediately the angel of the Lord smote him, because he gave not God the glory: and he was eaten of worms, and gave up the ghost.

Need I go on? These are not "men"; they are a different species entirely. Men cannot do these things. There would be no point in telling us that men ate the food of men. Men cannot appear in the dreams of others (by their own doing). Men don't ascend in flames. Et cetera.
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Different species? I didn’t read that. Show me in the Bible where angels are said to be different species (Playing your game).

Ah, but men with spiritual bodies as in the resurrection can do those things. We will be as the angels of God in heaven.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#156
Jan 13, 2016
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#156
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
But they are not flesh and bone.They are spiritual beings not like humans. They may be able to appear as men, eat and grab people, but that doesn't mean they can be felt or digest food. Do you think they digest food and poop? I've seen Angelsoft TP in stores that said it's heavenly, but I had no idea that's what it meant or was used for
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Do you believe that in the resurrection we will be eating and drinking and touching? The Bible says that we will be as the angels of God in heaven.
 
C

ChristRoseFromTheDead

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#157
Nov 1, 2024
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#157
ResidentAlien said:
I'm close to changing my mind after watching this video. He makes a very clear and convincing case that the "sons of God" were angels. He also doesn't think the Nephilim were the offspring of angels and humans; and he believes the Book of Enoch is myth. Good video.

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This guy doesn't mention that the LXX has angels instead of sons in Job, which is inexcusable coming from a scholar. It can't be coming from ignorance, so it's got to be from personal bias.

Then he mentions that the 4th person that looked like a son of God in the furnace in Daniel was an angel, but it's obvious that it was indeed the son of God, Christ. This again is inexcusable coming from someone who claims to know the bible

Nor does he mention that a Hebrew who was very familiar with Hebrew culture said in the book of Hebrews that God never called angels his sons.

He also strikes me as having a noticeable bias.

Another bit of evidence against his interpretation is that gods mingling with humans is the primary characteristic of pagan mythology

There are so many strikes against this interpretation I'm baffled that Christians who say they believe God's word take it seriously
 
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