To The Unbelievers

[homwardbound]

I actually know Him personally. If you would like to know Him more I can help you. Hit me up and I'll share what I know."

The above approach is more efficient because it recognizes

Might see to leave out "I" know, how About "I" believe, God knows and will show you truth in his love and mercy of Son given you, to be new in love and mercy to all as given you

Thanks Aaron you have a lot of truth imputed in you, I love the gleaning I have gotten from your experiences that you share here
God is for me above me and you and all others as well. Go, to Father in Spirit and Truth through Son to hear in the truth over errors of this world we are in
God is excellent at that teaching truth to each and everyone that stands in belief to his love and mercy for them too.
Believe God knows and will impute God's truth in you, each person that believes God does this with each one personally. Then the scripture, one will not need anyone else to teach them becomes real, since God is in them doing the truth through them in love to all over the few only religion does.
It is beyond measure understanding once God enters in, one sees new and does love in truth God's Love as in 1 Cor 13:4-7, that gets imputed not earned or trained in, imputed thank you

 

[studier]

I would not use "strength" to describe man's ability to stop resisting God. Man's default setting, from creation, is to be led by the Holy Spirit in all things. This is what most people miss when arguing about man's free will and why no one can agree. Man is designed to follow God. Resisting God requires effort, not receiving God.

Stephen would say it this way: “You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you."

Resisting a spirit's influence on someone's life prevents that spirit's work in said life. This is a spiritual principle that extends to the enemy, too: "Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you."

Again: Does fallen natural man retain his spirit from God?

Then, per the above quote: So, boil this down to proper wording from the Text as you see it. I'll use your word "effort" in place of strength even though some might get excited and say that means "work," and even though I think strength may be better since it can be parallel with capacity and ability.

• Resisting God takes effort
  • Does submitting to God take no effort?
• Choosing (instead of "free will"):
  • Does natural fallen man choose use effort to resist God?
  • Can natural fallen man choose to use no effort and simply submit to God?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Sorry people, I was tied up in a couple short meetings.

Every man has a spirit. The spirit is what makes people "beings". God allows this spirit of man to be subject to the man (just as spiritual gifts are subject to the receivers).

This spirit is the "breath of God" the ruach.

Because of sin, the spirit of men was disconnected from God. Because of this, man dies spiritually. It is different from physical death. In spiritual death, man retains the spirit God gave him but man is led by the desires of his physical nature. In physical death, the spirit given to man returns to God who gave it to him.

Man may resist God by exerting his own energy in pursuit of his own desires. Doing this prevents the Holy Spirit from affecting man.

If man stops resisting God, the Holy Spirit can inform the spirit of man. By this, the spirit of man is brought back into, while the man lives, the fold of the One Spirit. God, then, raises the man into new life that is governed by a different economy: eternal.

That's the outline.

“Every man has a spirit. The spirit is what makes people "beings". “

“And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground,

and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“All the while my breath is in me, And the spirit of God is in my nostrils;”
‭‭Job‬ ‭27:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“God allows this spirit of man to be subject to the man (just as spiritual gifts are subject to the receivers).”

we the living soul consist of two parts the body made of dust and the spirit which came from God and gave man life

When man consumned tbe inowledge of good and evil what happened was it turned out flesh against our spirit and created this internal conflict in all mankind between flesh and spirit

“And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

now in the New Testament we’re seeing this conflict between flesh and spirit being dealt with

“For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:1‬

i think honestly it’s one of Paul’s main themes

“This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other our two parts flesh and spirit are in a conflict we need to follow the spirit ) so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:16-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Sin caused a seperation but let’s remember the gospel is about repentance and remission of sins in his name so the person can be saved not the dead flesh but the spirit

“Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:50‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if we don’t

“to deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭5:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Thanks. I don't see the answer to my question here.

I agree with the request to not allow this thread to degenerate into the usual melee, so I'm not asking to go there. What I am asking you in relation to the @Cameron143 post is about fallen man's spirit and his retained capacities (in his spirit) to respond to and refuse the Spirit.

So, does fallen man retain his spirit?

Does "fallen natural man" have or not have a spirit?

Assuming fallen natural man retains his spirit from God, as you seem to have said in your points, can he (is he able to) in his spirit:

1. Choose to respond positively to the Spirit / The Word / God?
2. Choose to refuse the Spirit / The Word / God?
3. If yes, then is this ability a retained strength?
   1. Or does God have to do something to fallen natural man to enable him/give him strength to respond positively to the Spirit?
      1. If yes, then what does God have to do to enable him?

Also if we’re making sure the op stays on track it’s addressed to unbelievers

 

[studier]

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So, since Jesus' spoken words are Spirit (which seems based upon Scripture like Prov1:23 that parallels God's Spirit with God's words), then God's words/Spirit makes things live? Do God's words which are Spirt have the ability to make things live?

yeah if a spirit isn’t in a body it dies . Our spirit is how God inows every deed and work and thought

“The spirit of man is the candle of the LORD, Searching all the inward parts of the belly.”
‭‭Proverbs‬ ‭20:27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?”
‭‭Ecclesiastes‬ ‭3:21‬ ‭

note throughout the Bible there are references to man’s spirit even those who died in Noah’s time tbier soirits lived still

“For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: by which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭3:18-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Even after a man dies his spirit still continues on the Bible talks of man’s spirit being saved in many places of course we still have our spirit it’s what God is trying to save our body is already doomed and tied to death our spirit can be saved still and redeemed to Gods image

As I understand you, I think we agree that man's spirit survived the fall and has retained certain capabilities that some say it does not. And I think your use of John6 above is important re: this.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

So, since Jesus' spoken words are Spirit (which seems based upon Scripture like Prov1:23 that parallels God's Spirit with God's words), then God's words/Spirit makes things live? Do God's words which are Spirt have the ability to make things live?



As I understand you, I think we agree that man's spirit survived the fall and has retained certain capabilities that some say it does not. And I think your use of John6 above is important re: this.

then God's words/Spirit makes things live?

correct

“For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:21, 24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

even the wicked will hear his voice and rise up

“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth;

they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life;

and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:28-29‬ ‭

thats correct Gods word gives life to believers it’s spoken to these people

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The power of life is sent to all people but what if they reject his word ?

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48-50‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Think throughout scriptire from e start God spoke and it was so but look when he’s speaking to a man how the power works

“And the LORD said unto Moses, Stretch out thine hand toward heaven, that there may be darkness over the land of Egypt, even darkness which may be felt. And Moses stretched forth his hand toward heaven; and there was a thick darkness in all the land of Egypt three days:”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭10:21-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

see how when he speaks to Moses he’s including him in his word ? Moses lift up your hand and there shall be …..when Moses acts on his word the result comes just as he spoke it .

the thing that saves sinners who are all in the same boat is the gospel it is the vehicle for his spirit to enter into mankind

“For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

His spirit preached the gospel remember when Jesus was baptized he received the spirit then began preaching

 

[studier]

Sorry people, I was tied up in a couple short meetings.

Every man has a spirit. The spirit is what makes people "beings". God allows this spirit of man to be subject to the man (just as spiritual gifts are subject to the receivers).

This spirit is the "breath of God" the ruach.

Because of sin, the spirit of men was disconnected from God. Because of this, man dies spiritually. It is different from physical death. In spiritual death, man retains the spirit God gave him but man is led by the desires of his physical nature. In physical death, the spirit given to man returns to God who gave it to him.

Man may resist God by exerting his own energy in pursuit of his own desires. Doing this prevents the Holy Spirit from affecting man.

If man stops resisting God, the Holy Spirit can inform the spirit of man. By this, the spirit of man is brought back into, while the man lives, the fold of the One Spirit. God, then, raises the man into new life that is governed by a different economy: eternal.

That's the outline.

Sorry, I somehow missed this.

I enjoy the simplicity of Hebrew concrete thought; If a man is physically breathing, then the man has a spirit.

So, as I read the above quote, man in spiritual death retains the spirit/breath God gave him. I won't go into the disconnection you mention but flow with this for now.

I'm still left with one of the same questions: Man exerts energy to resist God (so man with retained spirit is able to resist God and follow his own desires). Does man have the energy to stop resisting God (we're moving around in terminology from strength to effort to energy and it would be nice to settle)?

 

[Aaron56]

Sorry, I somehow missed this.

I enjoy the simplicity of Hebrew concrete thought; If a man is physically breathing, then the man has a spirit.

So, as I read the above quote, man in spiritual death retains the spirit/breath God gave him. I won't go into the disconnection you mention but flow with this for now.

I'm still left with one of the same questions: Man exerts energy to resist God (so man with retained spirit is able to resist God and follow his own desires). Does man have the energy to stop resisting God (we're moving around in terminology from strength to effort to energy and it would be nice to settle)?

Every man has a spirit given by God in him. It remains in him until death. This is what makes them a living being. Upon death, the spirit of man returns to God. This is not like the spirits wooshing away to fly to God upon man's death. No. This is about the authority of the spirit of man being returned to God.

Perhaps let's start from there and move forward.

 

[studier]

then God's words/Spirit makes things live?

correct

Again, from what I read from you; I think we are in agreement.

I'm still uncertain what @Aaron56 thinks and whether or not he agrees with @Cameron143.

 

[Aaron56]

“Every man has a spirit. The spirit is what makes people "beings". “

“And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground,

and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“All the while my breath is in me, And the spirit of God is in my nostrils;”
‭‭Job‬ ‭27:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“God allows this spirit of man to be subject to the man (just as spiritual gifts are subject to the receivers).”

we the living soul consist of two parts the body made of dust and the spirit which came from God and gave man life

When man consumned tbe inowledge of good and evil what happened was it turned out flesh against our spirit and created this internal conflict in all mankind between flesh and spirit

“And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

now in the New Testament we’re seeing this conflict between flesh and spirit being dealt with

“For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:1‬

i think honestly it’s one of Paul’s main themes

“This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the otherour two parts flesh and spirit are in a conflict we need to follow the spirit ) so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:16-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Sin caused a seperation but let’s remember the gospel is about repentance and remission of sins in his name so the person can be saved not the dead flesh but the spirit

“Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:50‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if we don’t

“to deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭5:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Yes.

We often ignore that even Jesus did not receive the Holy Spirit, in time and space, until after His 30th birthday. So, He was equipped with only what Adam had when Adam walked with God until the Holy Spirit descended upon Him.

 

[Aaron56]

Again, from what I read from you; I think we are in agreement.

I'm still uncertain what @Aaron56 thinks and whether or not he agrees with @Cameron143.

I apologize, I'm not sure what you mean by "what @Cameron143 said". Can you clarify this?

 

[studier]

Every man has a spirit given by God in him. It remains in him until death. This is what makes them a living being. Upon death, the spirit of man returns to God. This is not like the spirits wooshing away to fly to God upon man's death. No. This is about the authority of the spirit of man being returned to God.

Perhaps let's start from there and move forward.

What you've just said is not complex. What I'm unclear of is what you have not answered. What does fallen natural man's spirit have and not have ability to do? Now I'm staying with "ability" because I think there needs to be some fixed wording in this rather than moving around from strength, to effort, to energy.

Does fallen natural man have the ability to resist the Spirit? I understand you to answer, Yes.

Does fallen natural man have the ability to cease resisting the Spirit? I'm unclear re: your answer.

Is fallen natural man's choice involved in this?

I hope this is simple enough.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Sorry, I somehow missed this.

I enjoy the simplicity of Hebrew concrete thought; If a man is physically breathing, then the man has a spirit.

So, as I read the above quote, man in spiritual death retains the spirit/breath God gave him. I won't go into the disconnection you mention but flow with this for now.

I'm still left with one of the same questions: Man exerts energy to resist God (so man with retained spirit is able to resist God and follow his own desires). Does man have the energy to stop resisting God (we're moving around in terminology from strength to effort to energy and it would be nice to settle)?

Well said .
“No man, when he hath lighted a candle, putteth it in a secret place, neither under a bushel, but on a candlestick, that they which come in may see the light.

The light of the body is the eye: therefore when thine eye is single, thy whole body also is full of light;

but when thine eye is evil, thy body also is full of darkness.

Take heed therefore that the light which is in thee be not darkness.

If thy whole body therefore be full of light, having no part dark, the whole shall be full of light, as when the bright shining of a candle doth give thee light.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭11:33-36‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Aaron56]

What you've just said is not complex. What I'm unclear of is what you have not answered. What does fallen natural man's spirit have and not have ability to do? Now I'm staying with "ability" because I think there needs to be some fixed wording in this rather than moving around from strength, effort, energy.

Does fallen natural man have the ability to resist the Spirit? I understand you to answer, Yes.

Does fallen natural man have the ability to cease resisting the Spirit? I'm unclear re: your answer.

Is fallen natural man's choice involved in this?

I hope this is simple enough.

Thank you!

Does fallen natural man have the ability to resist the Spirit? I understand you to answer, Yes.

Correct

Does fallen natural man have the ability to cease resisting the Spirit? I'm unclear re: your answer.

Yes. This is evidenced by Able... and Seth... and Noah, etc. and all others (Abram, etc.) who believed God before Christ's death on the cross. To be sure, they were saved for eternal life until Jesus preached to them after His death.

 

[studier]

Yes.

We often ignore that even Jesus did not receive the Holy Spirit, in time and space, until after His 30th birthday. So, He was equipped with only what Adam had when Adam walked with God until the Holy Spirit descended upon Him.

My response buttons are not accessible on this computer, so I'll hereby join the @HeIsHere response.

 

[Aaron56]

My response buttons are not accessible on this computer, so I'll hereby join the @HeIsHere response.

Yeah, it's not theater. Jesus actually received the Holy Spirit after His baptism with the pronouncement from God, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” How is that surprising?

 

[studier]

Thank you!



Correct



Yes. This is evidenced by Able... and Seth... and Noah, etc. and all others (Abram, etc.) who believed God before Christ's death on the cross. To be sure, they were saved for eternal life until Jesus preached to them after His death.

Thank you for hanging in with me.

I'm having to assume your final Yes and explanation includes the God given spirit in fallen natural man having the ability to choose. If you so choose, you can confirm or not.

 

[Aaron56]

Thank you for hanging in with me.

I'm having to assume your final Yes and explanation includes the God given spirit in fallen natural man having the ability to choose. If you so choose, you can confirm or not.

Correct. Man can cease to resist the Holy Spirit.

I often thought a study of journals should be done per-crucifixion and post-crucifixion to find the difference in the thoughts of man. The Holy Spirit was not released into the world to convict the world of sin, righteousness, and judgement until after Jesus ascended to the Father. The work of the Spirit would have changed man's thoughts. Some evidence should be in their writings.

 

[studier]

Yeah, it's not theater. Jesus actually received the Holy Spirit after His baptism with the pronouncement from God, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” How is that surprising?

It's surprising because alternative thinking is that Jesus was conceived by the Spirit, never subject to what you've referred to as "disconnection" as was the first Adam (except what some believe happened on the cross) and that there is a ministry of the Spirit connected with service that is not the same as birth.

I'm not sure I'll continue this as we've been requested to remain in line with the OP and I've already strayed from that. If you and others continue this discussion, maybe I'll join back in.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

op: to the UNbelievers?:

There is this, of course: Do UNbelievers first need to hear, understand [ and tremble? ] about
God's Undiluted Wrath Before they hear, and accept, By faith, His Undiluted GRACE?:

"And after certain days, when Felix came with his wife Drusilla, which was a Jewess,​

he sent for Paul, and heard him concerning the faith in Christ. And as he reasoned of​

righteousness, temperance, and Judgment to come, Felix trembled, and answered, Go​

thy way for this time; when I have a convenient season, I will call for thee"​

(Acts 24:24-25 AV)​

​

Resisting "The Holy Spirit's Conviction" of his sin, eh?

Amen.

Undiluted Wrath And Undiluted GRACE!