Are giants the offspring of angels and humans?

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

The latter makes sense when the context is angels. Women would be strange flesh, not of their kind.

Jude~~6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

It has been shown that these 2 verses have nothing to do with each other beyond them both being examples of God's judgement against the ungodly. "Even as" is not a good translation of the Greek and 2 Peter 2 repeats these 2 events with another verse in between them, which breaks the connection some are trying to make between Jude 6 and 7

 

[hornetguy]

Bland, means... "no salt."

not to be too argumentative, but.... no, it doesn't.

it could include the characteristic of "no salt" ... but it could be equally "no sugar"... or "no picante sauce".... and this is only the "food" side of the definition.

The word bland properly defined, is... well, here's a quote...

"lacking strong features or characteristics and therefore uninteresting."
"(of food or drink) mild or insipid"

just sayin....

 

[wolfwint]

Correct, but the word wives is in Genesis 6:2. Wife means marriage. You're simply choosing to interpret "wives" as "women" contrary to the context. Which makes more sense? They saw the daughters of men and took to themsleves wives, or they saw the daughters of men and took to themselves women? The latter makes no sense

Well, Genesis 6, 2 explaines not the the Enakiter which we find in Israel in time of Mose and Josua. Far after the flood, which kills all live out of the ark. ( not the animals wich lived in the water.)
So giants are also an result of the human genetic pool. Like pygmaens.

 

[lrs68]

In no way or imagination does 2 Peter 2:4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment contradict the passage of Scripture from Jude.

Must be comedy hour at CC.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

In no way or imagination does 2 Peter 2:4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment contradict the passage of Scripture from Jude.

Must be comedy hour at CC.

Some are trying to make a connection between Jude 1:6-7 to say it proves angels fornicated with humans. It say nothing of the sort. Their reasoning goes like this: the angels left their home in heaven to come to earth to fornicate with humans (verse 6) even as the men of Sodom did (verse 7). But that's not what the text says.

Jude 1:4-7 is a warning to be wary of ungodly men whose destiny is destruction. Jude 1:4 says ungodly men had crept in who were ordained to condemnation, and then 3 examples of this in former times are provided in verses 5-7

1. I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. Jude 1:5
2. And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Jude 1:6
3. As Sodom and Gomorrha and the cities about them similar to these gave themselves over to fornication, and went after strange flesh, are set forth for as an example of suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Jude 1:7

A very similar passage occurs in 2 Peter 2:1-6. Verses 1-3 say there are false prophets in the church who will bring swift destruction upon themselves, and then 3 examples are provided of the ungodly being destroyed in former times in verse 4-6:

1. For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 2 Peter 2:4
2. And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; 2 Peter 2:5
3. And turned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an example unto those that after should live ungodly; 2 Peter 2:6

In this case there is no connection between the angels that sinned and the Sodomites that sinned, which disputes the connection between angels and Sodom some are trying to make in Jude. In all cases all examples are used as warnings of what happens to the ungodly

 

[lrs68]

Some are trying to make a connection between Jude 1:6-7 to say it proves angels fornicated with humans. It say nothing of the sort. Their reasoning goes like this: the angels left their home in heaven to come to earth to fornicate with humans (verse 6) even as the men of Sodom did (verse 7). But that's not what the text says.

Jude 1:4-7 is a warning to be wary of ungodly men whose destiny is destruction. Jude 1:4 says ungodly men had crept in who were ordained to condemnation, and then 3 examples of this in former times are provided in verses 5-7

1. I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. Jude 1:5
2. And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Jude 1:6
3. As Sodom and Gomorrha and the cities about them similar to these gave themselves over to fornication, and went after strange flesh, are set forth for as an example of suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Jude 1:7

A very similar passage occurs in 2 Peter 2:1-6. Verses 1-3 say there are false prophets in the church who will bring swift destruction upon themselves, and then 3 examples are provided of the ungodly being destroyed in former times in verse 4-6:

1. For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 2 Peter 2:4
2. And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; 2 Peter 2:5
3. And turned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an example unto those that after should live ungodly; 2 Peter 2:6

In this case there is no connection between the angels that sinned and the Sodomites that sinned, which disputes the connection between angels and Sodom some are trying to make in Jude. In all cases all examples are used as warnings of what happens to the ungodly

There's no connection in your opinion because in reality those verses actually intwine with each other.

The first act someone will do or claim when their position is crumbling is to take the OBVIOUS and deny it.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

There's no connection in your opinion because in reality those verses actually intwine with each other.
.

Your overactive imagination at work.

 

[Genez]

Now that is interesting. It says the angels of heaven part in Matthew, but in Luke its just like this:

Luke 20:36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

Well, that is a diversion from what was said.
Of course, you had to do that.

But, just the same:

Demons never die....
Forever in Hell.
Forever tormented.

Not a pretty thought...

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

I'm trying to understand why certain people are so inclined to believe fantastical tales rather than the common sense explanation. Is it because they were raised on TV and exposed to so much fantasy and sci-fi that their minds are so inclined to go in that direction? Or is it a subliminal fear that angels are more powerful than they really are? A perverse obsession with sex? What is it? It's not coming from a sound mind.

 

[Genez]

You're letting your imagination run away with you. Completely bonkers. Your brother was a sci-fi fantasy illustrator, correct?

You are out of doctrinal thought. It shows.

Go find a good teacher
who can teach you the Bible.
Not someone who is simply "tribal."

 

[Kroogz]

It has been shown that these 2 verses have nothing to do with each other beyond them both being examples of God's judgement against the ungodly. "Even as" is not a good translation of the Greek and 2 Peter 2 repeats these 2 events with another verse in between them, which breaks the connection some are trying to make between Jude 6 and 7

Your overactive imagination at work.

It takes more imagination to come to your conclusion. A clear reading simply says Angels sinned in like manner of Sodom AND most of the surrounding area.

 

[HeIsHere]

I'm trying to understand why certain people are so inclined to believe fantastical tales rather than the common sense explanation. Is it because they were raised on TV and exposed to so much fantasy and sci-fi that their minds are so inclined to go in that direction? Or is it a subliminal fear that angels are more powerful than they really are? A perverse obsession with sex? What is it? It's not coming from a sound mind.

Well we can thank two teachers for popularizing this topic .. Heiser being at the top of the list, I cannot remember the other gentleman he died a few years back.

I have not delved deeply into this topic lately, what I knew I put aside because I could not believe this is even a belief,

but you seem good with the original languages, perhaps you can answer, why would fallen angels be referred to as the "sons of God?"

 

[lrs68]

you seem good with the original language's

He's using Google translate

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

but you seem good with the original languages, perhaps you can answer, why would fallen angels be referred to as the "sons of God?"

Another excellent point! Nowhere in scripture are the disobedient called sons of God.

 

[HeIsHere]

He's using Google translate

I take him at his word that he has taught himself the language.

How do you know?

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

He's using Google translate

Just a jealous slur

 

[lrs68]

I take him at his word that he has taught himself the language.

How do you know?

Because he has no idea that the Hebrew letter also has a numeric value which changes the meaning to a word because it's based off numeric value over simple word translation.

I had to teach him that few pages back.

 

[Genez]

Well we can thank two teachers for popularizing this topic .. Heiser being at the top of the list, I cannot remember the other gentleman he died a few years back.

I have not delved deeply into this topic lately, what I knew I put aside because I could not believe this is even a belief,

but you seem good with the original languages, perhaps you can answer, why would fallen angels be referred to as the "sons of God?"

Because the fall of angels had two phases of falling.

The angels in Genesis 6 were not fallen until they decided to take the beautiful women.

Satan and his angels always need to ask permission before doing anything for testing.
Even with Job, the Lord needed to grant permission to Satan.

But, it was unfallen angels that had a position, not having to ask permission first.
For if permission had been asked for? No punishment would have followed.

But it says that these angels have been severely punished. They were angels until they fell.

​

For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed ​

them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment." 2 Pe 2:4​

There was a reason God allowed for them to remain with Him for a season, and to later fall.
For their weakness that led to their sin is also a glaring weakness to be found in many of mankind today.
Will explain that if you wish.

 

[Genez]

Another excellent point! Nowhere in scripture are the disobedient called sons of God.

They are called sons of God. Until they became disobedient.

Satan and his angels were called sons of God before they fell.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Because he has no idea that the Hebrew letter also has a numeric value which changes the meaning to a word because it's based off numeric value over simple word translation.

I had to teach him that few pages back.

So your mind is predisposed to wander off into fantasy rather than maintain its wholeness