Is it Atoned for or taken away by Son?

[homwardbound]

Jesus of Nazareth, did he on that cross take away all sin in his Father's sight or not?
Is that finished and done for us all? Either it is done and completed or there is more to do to be in or to stay in
I see it is done, before risen to be given new life in Father's Spirit and Truth for us to walk new in trust, leaving the self behind. That is me presently as growing up still, God's maturity thank you, Hebrews 5:12-6:3
Anyone else? please chime in of your thought(s)

 

[Pilgrimshope]

“What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey;

whether of sin unto death,

or of obedience unto righteousness?”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:15-16‬ ‭

gotta choose not to serve sin believing in Jesus doesn’t mean now our actions no longer matter it makes them more relevant

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Israel's sins were covered by blood, not removed.

But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. Hebrews 10:3-4​

​

Sins were covered until the time of reformation when Christ removed sin forever. He did not become sin; he is the sinless lamb who was sacrificed to pay the debt we owed God. The debt has been paid in full. Gone forever!

Then the sinless lamb ascended to heaven to present proof before the throne that the debt had been paid in full.

We are in Christ in whom is no sin. When God looks at Christ and us in him, he sees neither debt nor sin because there is no sin in Christ

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Israel's sins were covered by blood, not removed.

But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. Hebrews 10:3-4​

​

Sins were covered until the time of reformation when Christ removed sin forever. He did not become sin; he is the sinless lamb who was sacrificed to pay the debt we owed God. The debt has been paid in full. Gone forever!

Then the sinless lamb ascended to heaven to present proof before the throne that the debt had been paid in full.

We are in Christ in whom is no sin. When God looks at Christ and us in him, he sees neither debt nor sin because there is no sin in Christ

Are we in Christ if we still commit sin ?

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Are we in Christ if we still commit sin ?

Of course. We are in Christ via an everlasting covenant and God never breaks his covenants.

​

 

[Blain]

Jesus of Nazareth, did he on that cross take away all sin in his Father's sight or not?
Is that finished and done for us all? Either it is done and completed or there is more to do to be in or to stay in
I see it is done, before risen to be given new life in Father's Spirit and Truth for us to walk new in trust, leaving the self behind. That is me presently as growing up still, God's maturity thank you, Hebrews 5:12-6:3
Anyone else? please chime in of your thought(s)

if it was not done and finnished then Christs sacrafice was not enough now that isn't to say we can just do as we please but the power sin had over us is no more

 

[BobCarabbio]

Jesus of Nazareth, did he on that cross take away all sin in his Father's sight or not?

NOT!!! Sin is completely cleansed in those who are BORN AGAIN by FAITH in Jesus SIN Offering (Eph 2,:8,9).

NO "born again" = NO cleansing of SIN.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Of course. We are in Christ via an everlasting covenant and God never breaks his covenants.

​

So how is there no sin in Christ ? If we keep sinning and are in him ? Doesn’t he give us a way to deal with it when we make mistakes and commit sin ?

“If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭1:8-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Pilgrimshope]

if it was not done and finnished then Christs sacrafice was not enough now that isn't to say we can just do as we please but the power sin had over us is no more

Right sins power to control and overcome our Will is no more it doesn’t have dominion anymore we can choose to follow Christ now and not sin .

“Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin:

but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:12-14‬ ‭

It doesn’t mean we are beyond sin because inevitably we all still fail in some way and so we have been given repentance and remission of sins whereas like children who make mistakes and confess to the father he’s more than gracious to forgive and cleanse us that’s only in Christ though

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

So how is there no sin in Christ ? If we keep sinning and are in him ? Doesn’t he give us a way to deal with it when we make mistakes and commit sin ?
‬‬

Because he's a sinless being and our fleshly body which sins is not in him, so it doesn't defile him personally. But it does disrupt the fellowship until we acknowledge our wrongdoing

 

[Blain]

Right sins power to control and overcome our Will is no more it doesn’t have dominion anymore we can choose to follow Christ now and not sin .

“Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin:

but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:12-14‬ ‭

It doesn’t mean we are beyond sin because inevitably we all still fail in some way and so we have been given repentance and remission of sins whereas like children who make mistakes and confess to the father he’s more than gracious to forgive and cleanse us that’s only in Christ though

Honestly we always had the choice to sin or not sin what Christ did was more than give us a way to not sin he took sins power. we know right from wrong from an early age so choosing to not sin was always an option even before Christ we have to consider what power did sin have before? was this power merely tempation to do wrong or something more?

 

[lrs68]

If a born again Christian commits the act of literal physical murder are they automatically forgiven or must they confess and repent?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Because he's a sinless being and our fleshly body which sins is not in him, so it doesn't defile him personally. But it does disrupt the fellowship until we acknowledge our wrongdoing

Of course I agree if or rather when , we sin , it doesn’t defile him . And that it also doesn’t sever our relationship with him . Both good and agreeable points

Jesus disciples weren’t perfect but they followed after him knowing he is the way and truth and life. As a Christian having received his spirit when we believed . When we do something we know is wrong , it’s sin and should convict us and being sorrow that leads to repentance. Because we know “ there’s no sin in Christ “ we need to repent when we’ve fallen short because he is gracious to forgive those who keep his word .

“Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.”
‭‭James‬ ‭4:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Not that now Christ has sin but the person who’s done wrong knowingly has now become aware of a sin they have committed, and should feel repentance and act upon it
When they fall short and make mistakes who follow after him if we don’t pretend we didn’t do it or it was t wrong so why do we need to confess and repent ? If we just acknolwedge our sins from repentance he’s always faithful and just to forgive

“When I kept silence, my bones waxed old Through my roaring all the day long…..

I acknowledged my sin unto thee, And mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the LORD; And thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭32:3, 5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

God requires man to acknowledge thier sins before him in order for them to repent and be forgiven of them. “Sinlessness” or the non existsnce of sin im not sure about. I know Christ is sinless but that he’s come to save sinners through calling us to repentance and life in him

“if so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:

that ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

and be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

and that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:21-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and so some things are being built on a foundation of having heard the word of Christ , prior to having joined a church which received an epistle explaining things better that they already heers and believed.

“For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;

…….. For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1:9, 16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Blain]

If a born again Christian commits the act of literal physical murder are they automatically forgiven or must they confess and repent?

Well if they weren't repentant in their hearts after commiting such an act then why would he forgive him of it?

He would have to repent for such a horrible act

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Honestly we always had the choice to sin or not sin what Christ did was more than give us a way to not sin he took sins power. we know right from wrong from an early age so choosing to not sin was always an option even before Christ we have to consider what power did sin have before? was this power merely tempation to do wrong or something more?

“we have to consider what power did sin have before? was this power merely tempation to do wrong or something more?”

I think first of mans new position after they consumned the knowledge of good and evil. The lord speaking to The firstborn man.

“Then the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? If you do what is right, will you not be accepted?

But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.””
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭4:6-7‬ ‭

i think we can learn something from what God told cain there. If you do what is right , you’ll be accepted . But if you do not do what is right , then sin is crouching at your door and you are the object of its desire and you must overcome sin and rule over it .

later we can see something as well here regarding sins effect on all people

“Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18:4‬ ‭

and before that

“And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭32:33‬ ‭

another effect of sin tbat we persist in and never repent of or won’t even confess is here

“Behold, the LORD's hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear: but your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

For your hands are defiled with blood, and your fingers with iniquity; your lips have spoken lies, your tongue hath muttered perverseness. Their feet run to evil, and they make haste to shed innocent blood: their thoughts are thoughts of iniquity; wasting and destruction are in their paths. The way of peace they know not; and there is no judgment in their goings: they have made them crooked paths: whosoever goeth therein shall not know peace.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭59:1-3, 7-8‬ ‭

sin corrupts whole societies and peoples of it’s allowed to go on and never is dealt with and stopped. But you can see how God is holding thier sins against them here ?

After jesus came and died for our sins and promised remission of sins in his name he doesnt t hold thier sins against us anymore thier gone and all the effect of having no remission is Gone , being afraid to approach and listen to his word is gone , not knowing God , Gone …..with our sins

and so as we live in Christ , we want to never sin , but we still do I believe if we’re honest sometimes and so we have repentance and confession of sins and a promise of Christ to cleanse us from all unrighteousness when we confess our sins . His atonement doesn’t need to happen anymore our repentance does

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Well if they weren't repentant in their hearts after commiting such an act then why would he forgive him of it?

He would have to repent for such a horrible act

David pretty much murdered Uriah the Hittite and repented later from his heart . He didn’t technically kill him but he plotted his death and then ordered it to be done . In a treacherous and kind of cowardly way also , surprising for king David. But he was restored and blessed after he repented

 

[Blain]

“we have to consider what power did sin have before? was this power merely tempation to do wrong or something more?”

I think first of mans new position after they consumned the knowledge of good and evil. The lord speaking to The firstborn man.

“Then the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? If you do what is right, will you not be accepted?

But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.””
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭4:6-7‬ ‭

i think we can learn something from what God told cain there. If you do what is right , you’ll be accepted . But if you do not do what is right , then sin is crouching at your door and you are the object of its desire and you must overcome sin and rule over it .

later we can see something as well here regarding sins effect on all people

“Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18:4‬ ‭

and before that

“And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭32:33‬ ‭

another effect of sin tbat we persist in and never repent of or won’t even confess is here

“Behold, the LORD's hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear: but your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

For your hands are defiled with blood, and your fingers with iniquity; your lips have spoken lies, your tongue hath muttered perverseness. Their feet run to evil, and they make haste to shed innocent blood: their thoughts are thoughts of iniquity; wasting and destruction are in their paths. The way of peace they know not; and there is no judgment in their goings: they have made them crooked paths: whosoever goeth therein shall not know peace.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭59:1-3, 7-8‬ ‭

sin corrupts whole societies and peoples of it’s allowed to go on and never is dealt with and stopped. But you can see how God is holding thier sins against them here ?

After jesus came and died for our sins and promised remission of sins in his name he doesnt t hold thier sins against us anymore thier gone and all the effect of having no remission is Gone , being afraid to approach and listen to his word is gone , not knowing God , Gone …..with our sins

and so as we live in Christ , we want to never sin , but we still do I believe if we’re honest sometimes and so we have repentance and confession of sins and a promise of Christ to cleanse us from all unrighteousness when we confess our sins . His atonement doesn’t need to happen anymore our repentance does

You know this is a great way to describe it well said. so the power of sin is untimately God not hearing you and hiding his face making us foreign to him and it corrups everyone around you in society and then ultimately death

 

[Pilgrimshope]

You know this is a great way to describe it well said. so the power of sin is untimately God not hearing you and hiding his face making us foreign to him and it corrups everyone around you in society and then ultimately death

Yeah the power of sin is death ultimately , for the individual sinner .

“Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

What the difference is now is this has happened

“For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So now the equation has changed for the souls that have sinned and we’re condemned to death for it . Because he fulfilled the death sentence part for thier sins and we then believe the gospel

And has promised remission of sins for those who believe in his name

“and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:47‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:43‬ ‭

“whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and so you can see how the Old Testament might say that anyone who sins will surely die , but then the New Testament says anyone who has sinned and repents and believes the gospel shall be saved …

 

[Blain]

Yeah the power of sin is death ultimately , for the individual sinner .

“Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

What the difference is now is this has happened

“For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So now the equation has changed for the souls that have sinned and we’re condemned to death for it . Because he fulfilled the death sentence part for thier sins and we then believe the gospel

And has promised remission of sins for those who believe in his name

“and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:47‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:43‬ ‭

“whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:25‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and so you can see how the Old Testament might say that anyone who sins will surely die , but then the New Testament says anyone who has sinned and repents and believes the gospel shall be saved …

Right but it isn't talking about physical death is it because everyone dies eventually it is talking about the second death isn't it?

 

[Magenta]

Right but it isn't talking about physical death is it because everyone dies eventually it is talking about the second death isn't it?

In Revelation 21:8 we read, the cowardly, the faithless, the polluted, the murderers, the fornicators, the sorcerers, the idolaters,
and all liars, their place will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death. So it is not just murderers.