God gave the law about Circumcision.

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Oct 31, 2024
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#1
GENESIS 17:10-13

10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.

11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.

12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.

13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,846
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#3
Galatians 5:1-6 NIV, emphasis addded:
1 It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery. 2 Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3 Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. 4 You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. 5 For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
62,259
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#4

Galatians 5:1

Galatians 5:4 and 6b ~ You who are trying to be justified by the law have been severed from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. All that matters is faith, expressed through love.
 
Oct 19, 2024
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#5
GENESIS 17:10-13

10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.

11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.

12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.

13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.
Paul had something to say about this topic:

TOP #24: The only circumcision that is salvific is that which is inward or of the heart and done by the Spirit. [RM 2:25-29] Paul says that physical circumcision according to a written code has value only if one obeys the law, meaning perfectly per RM 3:23.

TOP #25: All have sinned by breaking moral law but may be justified by God’s grace through faith in Christ’s redemption or atonement. [RM 3:9-26] The most familiar part of this passage is v. 23-24, “All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.”

TOP #26: Abraham is the spiritual father of all who have faith in God and Jesus. [RM 4:1-25]

TOP #27: Those who have been justified via faith in God and the Lord Jesus Christ (LJC) receive the Holy Spirit in their hearts (HS). [RM 5:1-5]
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
5,588
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Frankston, Victoria
christianlife.au
#6
GENESIS 17:10-13

10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.

11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.

12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.

13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.
What is your point? God gave all the law.
 
Oct 31, 2024
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#7
Galatians 5:1-6 NIV, emphasis addded:
1 It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery. 2 Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3 Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. 4 You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. 5 For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.
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By using own intellect to understand Galatians 5:1-6 it seems like our Lord Jesus who taught Paul (Galatians 1:11-12) contradicted God The Father Commandment in Gen 17:10-12.

It is just the same as if we will use our own intellect again to understand Matthew 13:34. Jesus gave another law
GALATIANS 13:34
34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

Also, there are verses in the book of Matthews that our Lord Jesus changed the Law.
MATTHEW 5:21-22
21 Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

MATTHEW 5:27-28
27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

MATTHEW 5:38-39
38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

MATTHEW 5:43-44
43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Yes, it is very clear in our own understanding that our Lord Jesus when he arrived he gave a new law to the Jews and he changed the Law in Old Testament.

But, if we ask our Lord Jesus if he really did that.
His answer is he did not give a new law and he did not changed the law.
Because according to him the law given by God The Father to the Prophets in the Old Testament were fulfilled by our Lord.
MATTHEW 5:17
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,846
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#8
… 17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil
Yes, exactly: the law is fulfilled. Its requirements have been satisfied. Because of that, Christians are not under the law.

Christians are not required to be circumcised because Jesus fulfilled the law, and for the same reason we are not required to pay tithes.

It really is that simple, but people want to complicate things.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
15,030
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113
#9
GENESIS 17:10-13

10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.

11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.

12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.

13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.
GENESIS 17:10-13

10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.

11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.

12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.

13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.
The old law you quoted is a foreshadow or poor reflection of the truth in Christ like a pattern beforehand . we in Christ have a circumcision to partake of but it’s not the foreskin of Israel’s old covenant Christianity has thier own circumcision

“in whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:11-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

but to become circumcised to the law of Moses in thier manor is a sign that you’ve agreed to keep the entire covenant law that was never given to anyone but Israel’s tribes

they had removed a small portion of flesh , in Christ our flesh is removed through the operation of baptism
 
Oct 31, 2024
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#10
Yes, exactly: the law is fulfilled. Its requirements have been satisfied. Because of that, Christians are not under the law.

Christians are not required to be circumcised because Jesus fulfilled the law, and for the same reason we are not required to pay tithes.

It really is that simple, but people want to complicate things.
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Jesus in his 2nd role as The Son of The Living God. he serves as a model;
Whatever Jesus did in his 2nd role as Son of The Living God we should do it too.
1 PETER 2:21
21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,846
13,977
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#11
Jesus in his 2nd role as The Son of The Living God. he serves as a model;
Whatever Jesus did in his 2nd role as Son of The Living God we should do it too.
1 PETER 2:21
21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
Firstly, where does the idea of ordinal roles of Jesus appear in the Bible?

Secondly, what does having Jesus as our example have to do with the law concerning circumcision being obsolete for Christians?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
62,259
31,236
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#12
Jesus in his 2nd role as The Son of The Living God. he serves as a model;
Whatever Jesus did in his 2nd role as Son of The Living God we should do it too.
1 PETER 2:21
21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
Are you going to invite us to your crucifixion?
 
Oct 31, 2024
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#13
Firstly, where does the idea of ordinal roles of Jesus appear in the Bible?

Secondly, what does having Jesus as our example have to do with the law concerning circumcision being obsolete for Christians?
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*This is the Real Jesus recognized by Simon Peter. he has 2 roles. Namely: JESUS AS THE CHRIST and THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD.
According to Jesus himself the recognition of Simon Peter came from the Father.
MATTHEW 16:16-17
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Jesus in his 2nd Role as The Son of The Living God, he is The Eldest among Son of God.
ROMANS 8:29
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

In Jesus 2nd Role as The Son of The Living God. Whatever Law of God he fulfilled, we must follow also.
 
Oct 31, 2024
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#14
Are you going to invite us to your crucifixion?
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Jesus in his 1st Role as The Christ, The Savior, The God of Abraham and Jacob whom they called The Father. He saved mankind when he died in the Cross.
This is the Role of The Father that we are not allowed to do it. Because God The Father is The Sole Savior.
ISAIAH 43:10-11
10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
11 I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour.
 
Mar 15, 2023
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#15
Jesus himself was circumcised on the eight day (see Luke 2:21) - We are to follow him.

Jesus did not abrogate the law, definitely not some - last book

Revelation 2:14
14 Nevertheless, I have a few things against you: There are some among you who hold to the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to entice the Israelites to sin so that they ate food sacrificed to idols and committed sexual immorality.

Revelation 2:20. Jesus faults the church at Thyatira for listening to a false Jezebel who “teaches my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed to idols.”
 
Jul 1, 2021
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#16
Jesus himself was circumcised on the eight day (see Luke 2:21) - We are to follow him.

Jesus did not abrogate the law, definitely not some - last book

Revelation 2:14
14 Nevertheless, I have a few things against you: There are some among you who hold to the teaching of Balaam, who taught Balak to entice the Israelites to sin so that they ate food sacrificed to idols and committed sexual immorality.

Revelation 2:20. Jesus faults the church at Thyatira for listening to a false Jezebel who “teaches my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed to idols.”
That is absolute insanity. Jesus was circumcised so we need to be circumcised?

Have you even read the New Testament? Try starting out with the book of Galatians, Paul has a lot to say about this.
If you are one of those anti-Paul people to your own destruction, how about James and Peter?

Acts 15:

And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.

When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.

And being brought on their way by the church, they passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy unto all the brethren.

And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them.

But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.

And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.

And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;

And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.

And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:

Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.

And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,

After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:

That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:

But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
 
Mar 15, 2023
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#17
Yeap its the usual argument of should we follow the law or not (basically, do whatever you want with no consequences)

Jesus never stated the old law is no longer required, far from it - Matt 5:17 - Do not think that I have come to abolish the law .........

1) Do you accept that Revelations clearly states that some of the law is still valid as this is the last book after Paul and others?

2) Matthew 23:23 - Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

3) coming back to Acts - Acts 21:20-26 The next day Paul took the men and purified himself along with them. Then he went to the temple to give notice of the date when the days of purification would end and the offering would be made for each of them. (clearly following some laws)
 
Jun 30, 2015
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#18
Yeap its the usual argument of should we follow the law or not (basically, do whatever you want with no consequences)
You hold to a foolish and ignorant dichotomy, and clearly don’t understand the influence of the indwelling Holy Spirit.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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#19
When was 8 days old it was all I could do was sneak out of the house, hitch a ride to the hospital, and plead with the doctor to circumcise me. But all I could think is...WWJD?