Understanding God’s election
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TOP #263: Believers (the elect) may commit apostasy. [HB 3:6-4:11, 6:4-6, 10:19-39] Apostates will never repent, and thus it must be the unpardonable blasphemy against the Holy Spirit referred to by Jesus in MT 12:31-32.
The elect may choose to repudiate their saving faith and go to hell, just as they were free to have (non-meritorious) saving faith by the grace of God and be bound for heaven if they had endured to the end.
God initiates; souls may cooperate until they die--or not.
The elect may choose to repudiate their saving faith and go to hell, just as they were free to have (non-meritorious) saving faith by the grace of God and be bound for heaven if they had endured to the end.
God initiates; souls may cooperate until they die--or not.
@rogerg
Also the Isaiah passage gives us to know that God is speaking about all the children of God being taught Isa 54:13
13 And all thy children shall be taught of the Lord; and great shall be the peace of thy children.
The teaching is a Covenant Blessing Jer 31:34
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Heb 8:10-11
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
Also the Isaiah passage gives us to know that God is speaking about all the children of God being taught Isa 54:13
13 And all thy children shall be taught of the Lord; and great shall be the peace of thy children.
The teaching is a Covenant Blessing Jer 31:34
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
Heb 8:10-11
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
Jhn 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him:
This is equivalent to saying, "Only those whom the Father is drawing at this time can come to Me."
And it is also equivalent to saying, "All that are coming to Me at this time must have been drawn by My Father."
And, "The only way anyone can come to Me at this time, is if the Father is drawing him."
The mistake in interpretation some are making here is to assume that "to come to Jesus" is a metaphor for "to believe in Jesus". Therefore they infer that 1. Only those whom the Father draws can come to Me.
is th same as 2. Only those whom the Father draws can believe on me.
3.Therefore, "All who come to Me, must believe on Me."
But John 6:44 does not say anything to imply that "believing on Jesus" equates to "coming to Jesus." "Coming to Jesus" is not mentioned in the verse.
No man can be a Navy Seal unless He passes the rigorous Seal training course.
Someone assumes that "driving past the Navy seal training course site" means the same thing as "passing the Navy Seal training course."
So, they infer that the only way anyone can become a Navy seal is to drive past the Navy Seal training facility.
This is the false equivalency fallacy, falsely equating two terms that are not the same.
Jhn 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
This is saying that all those that come to Me, I will raise at the last day.
We cannot infer that this means that only those that come to me, I will raise at the last day.
No one can come to this school unless they live in the same county, and I will teach them Math.
This means I will teach Math to all students who come to this school and live in this county.
Does this mean that I will teach Math only to students who come to this school and live in this county? No.
To assume it does, would be the negative inference fallacy.
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him:
This is equivalent to saying, "Only those whom the Father is drawing at this time can come to Me."
And it is also equivalent to saying, "All that are coming to Me at this time must have been drawn by My Father."
And, "The only way anyone can come to Me at this time, is if the Father is drawing him."
The mistake in interpretation some are making here is to assume that "to come to Jesus" is a metaphor for "to believe in Jesus". Therefore they infer that 1. Only those whom the Father draws can come to Me.
is th same as 2. Only those whom the Father draws can believe on me.
3.Therefore, "All who come to Me, must believe on Me."
But John 6:44 does not say anything to imply that "believing on Jesus" equates to "coming to Jesus." "Coming to Jesus" is not mentioned in the verse.
No man can be a Navy Seal unless He passes the rigorous Seal training course.
Someone assumes that "driving past the Navy seal training course site" means the same thing as "passing the Navy Seal training course."
So, they infer that the only way anyone can become a Navy seal is to drive past the Navy Seal training facility.
This is the false equivalency fallacy, falsely equating two terms that are not the same.
Jhn 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
This is saying that all those that come to Me, I will raise at the last day.
We cannot infer that this means that only those that come to me, I will raise at the last day.
No one can come to this school unless they live in the same county, and I will teach them Math.
This means I will teach Math to all students who come to this school and live in this county.
Does this mean that I will teach Math only to students who come to this school and live in this county? No.
To assume it does, would be the negative inference fallacy.
No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.
I suppose you are going to tell us now those who came to Jesus are raised to condemnation.
You are a piece of work, adding to and subtracting from Scripture as you do.
John 6:37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
I suppose you are going to tell us now those who came to Jesus are raised to condemnation.
You are a piece of work, adding to and subtracting from Scripture as you do.
John 6:37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.
Yes it does, when it comes to the Father God doing the teaching, so its written Jn 6:44-45
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
With God, teaching, hearing, and learning of Him are all one ! Job 36 22
Behold, God exalteth by his power: who teacheth like him?
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
With God, teaching, hearing, and learning of Him are all one ! Job 36 22
Behold, God exalteth by his power: who teacheth like him?
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It is said by the "great shall be the peace of thy children". Their peace shall be great because they learned which gives them understanding, and therefore, their peace will be great. It is one continuous thought within the verse.
[Isa 54:13 KJV] 13 And all thy children [shall be] taught of the LORD; and great [shall be] the peace of thy children.
[Isa 54:13 KJV] 13 And all thy children [shall be] taught of the LORD; and great [shall be] the peace of thy children.
