Why would God create someone knowing
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Omniscience includes knowledge of people’s thoughts (PS 94:11, MT 12:25) and the foreknowledge of events (ACTS 2:23, RM 8:29, 11:2, 1PT 1:2). Some people think that God even knows what a person will be/do before that person exists (JR 1:5).
If this view is correct (which I find incomprehensible), it must be maintained that God’s foreknowledge does not predetermine a person’s spiritual choice regarding the satisfaction of God’s requirement for salvation or else moral responsibility would be abrogated.
I find it simpler to think that God merely tweaks the river of history occasionally to keep if flowing in the direction He intends but allows the fish to swim as they wish. God allows eddies in the river of His plan of salvation.
If this view is correct (which I find incomprehensible), it must be maintained that God’s foreknowledge does not predetermine a person’s spiritual choice regarding the satisfaction of God’s requirement for salvation or else moral responsibility would be abrogated.
I find it simpler to think that God merely tweaks the river of history occasionally to keep if flowing in the direction He intends but allows the fish to swim as they wish. God allows eddies in the river of His plan of salvation.
My context from what I presented doesn't have to be related to TOJ/TOP. It solely relates to God choosing Moses and then convincing Moses. When we read the content it's rather obvious just being an Eternal Flame not consuming the bush nor the fact God explains that He is the Elohim of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and his own father swayed Moses. It was the staff becoming a snake and his hand turning leprosy and back that convinced him. But we still see Moses dragging his feet about the way he talks.
Moses literally presented numerous ways to avoid obeying God. Had God been impatient, Moses would have remained in the fields.
Ultimately, Moses gave into God's request. Moses, after God showed him enough to convince him allowed Moses to decide. Finally, Moses asked what is the name of God that I should tell the people who sent me. We see a lot of free will in the example of Moses.
Moses literally presented numerous ways to avoid obeying God. Had God been impatient, Moses would have remained in the fields.
Ultimately, Moses gave into God's request. Moses, after God showed him enough to convince him allowed Moses to decide. Finally, Moses asked what is the name of God that I should tell the people who sent me. We see a lot of free will in the example of Moses.
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I agree. Freedom would call for the need to be unconstrained by either bondage or servitude, which none of us are.
In hindsight, I did go on to explain how self-willed and God's purpose for allowing it, would have been a better turn of phrase than free will, a delusion which doesn't exist, as there can be no independence from a sovereign God.
In hindsight, I did go on to explain how self-willed and God's purpose for allowing it, would have been a better turn of phrase than free will, a delusion which doesn't exist, as there can be no independence from a sovereign God.
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Because at first you aren’t addicted you’re free of the addiction to begin with so it’s easier you can have it or not but soon your flesh developes a taste and craving . And the taste for the forbidden the craving for tbat object turns from an choice before tbat came along to now a bondage and constant thorn always wanting and needing the object of addiction
sin is the same way it very easily entangles a man like an addiction does .
like an addiction it first runs it’s course and in the end destroys
“but every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin:
and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.”
James 1:14-15 KJV
It’s a slow death we die because we won’t repent just as an addict of heroin slowly dies because they won’t stop putting deadly chemicals in tbier body
What changes is the need and desires of the persons mind and heart because thoer flesh is now shouting we need it we want it before the addiction it was just a curiousity it turns to a hook stuck on the person to pull them in that direction
The more familiar we become with sins the more comfortable we become in our flesh but later the much more desperate to become set free our spirit becomes. If you have no chains it’s easy but once your bound it’s hard
“Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,”
Hebrews 12:1 KJV
let us put down the syringe that so easily besets us
sin is the same way it very easily entangles a man like an addiction does .
like an addiction it first runs it’s course and in the end destroys
“but every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin:
and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.”
James 1:14-15 KJV
It’s a slow death we die because we won’t repent just as an addict of heroin slowly dies because they won’t stop putting deadly chemicals in tbier body
What changes is the need and desires of the persons mind and heart because thoer flesh is now shouting we need it we want it before the addiction it was just a curiousity it turns to a hook stuck on the person to pull them in that direction
The more familiar we become with sins the more comfortable we become in our flesh but later the much more desperate to become set free our spirit becomes. If you have no chains it’s easy but once your bound it’s hard
“Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,”
Hebrews 12:1 KJV
let us put down the syringe that so easily besets us
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It’s constantly there and gods always overcoming it with the people in the Bible that’s what this is all about we aren’t made to have a choice between good and evil this is the thing that makes a free Will , the opportunity to choose for ourselves good or evil was never meant to be part of our existance it’s the problem .
We are made to just listen to what God says to us personally and obey him trusting as a father not fearing as a slave we should trust the thing God said is right and act without needing to know the other option of evil . It creates a conflicted nature in us we want to know and follow zgod and live , but part of us also wants to indulge in sin and the forbidden
not through rocks but through the living son of God we’re meant to trust what he said rather than have the knowledge of good and evil and have to make a choice between the two because in us is both knowledge and desire for good and also evil
we weren’t supposed to have the knowledge of good and evil but we are made to accept what God said and operate upon it
We are made to just listen to what God says to us personally and obey him trusting as a father not fearing as a slave we should trust the thing God said is right and act without needing to know the other option of evil . It creates a conflicted nature in us we want to know and follow zgod and live , but part of us also wants to indulge in sin and the forbidden
not through rocks but through the living son of God we’re meant to trust what he said rather than have the knowledge of good and evil and have to make a choice between the two because in us is both knowledge and desire for good and also evil
we weren’t supposed to have the knowledge of good and evil but we are made to accept what God said and operate upon it
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It's impossible to understand how the divine, eternal Almighty God really thinks, however i think it's likely our home is just one of many projects he has on the go.
Don't know what others think but i think he probably does have some overarching project our home is part of, where he provides us all the information we need to make the good choices that would make his precious heart glad.
Know a lot of people will disagree with me but i do think the LORD has blessed us with some personal agency. He gave us everything we need with a cherry on top, i think it likely this project of his might be satisfying enough/to his glory enough, to let it play out. That's just guessing but hey!
Don't know what others think but i think he probably does have some overarching project our home is part of, where he provides us all the information we need to make the good choices that would make his precious heart glad.
Know a lot of people will disagree with me but i do think the LORD has blessed us with some personal agency. He gave us everything we need with a cherry on top, i think it likely this project of his might be satisfying enough/to his glory enough, to let it play out. That's just guessing but hey!
Well, although I agree with what you think this historical passage indicates regarding God's patience, IMO we should always look for NT confirmation of what we glean from the OT (as in the Key OT Teachings thread). In this case I find 2PT 3:9, "God is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish."
HAND :^)
HAND :^)
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God is God. All we know about the Father is made possible by the Son. I don't know the answer to your question but logic says "why not"?
John 14;7-9
7 If you have known me, you will know my Father too. And from now on you do know him and have seen him.”
8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father, and we will be content.” 9 Jesus replied, “Have I been with you for so long, and you have not known me, Philip? The person who has seen me has seen the Father! How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
John 14;7-9
7 If you have known me, you will know my Father too. And from now on you do know him and have seen him.”
8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father, and we will be content.” 9 Jesus replied, “Have I been with you for so long, and you have not known me, Philip? The person who has seen me has seen the Father! How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
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Omniscience does mean "all knowing". How can he be all knowing if there are things He doesn't know? Now, whether God the Son deliberately chooses to not know some things in order to complete a certain function (ie. create people), why not?
It goes to give an answer to the OP's question. Attributing a Clayton's omniscience to God is rather risky.
ps. a "clayton's" is something that pretends to be something but isn't.
It goes to give an answer to the OP's question. Attributing a Clayton's omniscience to God is rather risky.
ps. a "clayton's" is something that pretends to be something but isn't.
I think the "clayton" with regard to divine omniscience as including foreknowledge of as yet uncreated souls' choice whether to accept grace without determining such is analogous to God’s omnipotence, meaning that He can do everything except “disown Himself” or not be God (2TM 2:13)--NOT that God can perform logical absurdities, such as creating a rock too large for Him to move.
These two conundrums are incomprehensible, IMO.
These two conundrums are incomprehensible, IMO.
Because the overriding attribute of God is love.
Love is the foundation of everything that God does.
In perfect love God created us all.
God's plan from the beginning was that everyone would eat from the tree of eternal life.
If you wish to rebel against His perfect love then that is your choice.
In the end it's a battle between hate and love.
Love is the foundation of everything that God does.
In perfect love God created us all.
God's plan from the beginning was that everyone would eat from the tree of eternal life.
If you wish to rebel against His perfect love then that is your choice.
In the end it's a battle between hate and love.
Yes amen his mercies are renewed each morning and without his mercy we couldn’t survive
i contend he already knows we aren’t perfect and some of us are big jobs to repair and heal but his forebearance is amazing
“Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him.
And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them.”
Luke 15:1-2
“I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
Luke 5:32 KJV
“I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.””
Luke 13:5 NIV
thank God it’s as you said there
“The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.”
2 Peter 3:9 NIV
and that we have the gospel the lords words of promise as well
“Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful. “Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap.
For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.””
Luke 6:36-38 NIV
sadly some don’t really ever hear the gospel Jesus preached to teach us about God the Father and our new lives in him
““This, then, is how you should pray: “ ‘Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us today our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one. ’
For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.”
Matthew 6:9-15 NIV
In his doctrine he’s acknowledging he knows we sometimes fail and are imperfect so he’s given us the doctrine
“If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.”
1 John 1:9-10 NIV
i contend he already knows we aren’t perfect and some of us are big jobs to repair and heal but his forebearance is amazing
“Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him.
And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them.”
Luke 15:1-2
“I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.”
Luke 5:32 KJV
“I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.””
Luke 13:5 NIV
thank God it’s as you said there
“The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.”
2 Peter 3:9 NIV
and that we have the gospel the lords words of promise as well
“Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful. “Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap.
For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.””
Luke 6:36-38 NIV
sadly some don’t really ever hear the gospel Jesus preached to teach us about God the Father and our new lives in him
““This, then, is how you should pray: “ ‘Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us today our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one. ’
For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.”
Matthew 6:9-15 NIV
In his doctrine he’s acknowledging he knows we sometimes fail and are imperfect so he’s given us the doctrine
“If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word is not in us.”
1 John 1:9-10 NIV
It is not impossible.
For He has given us the Word of God (the mind/thinking of Christ) to be made able to understand.
First God must lead us into the needed knowledge of God's Word for understanding what seems impossible for us today,
to suddenly make sense when God's timing opens us up for insight.
All things are possible with God.
For He has given us the Word of God (the mind/thinking of Christ) to be made able to understand.
First God must lead us into the needed knowledge of God's Word for understanding what seems impossible for us today,
to suddenly make sense when God's timing opens us up for insight.
All things are possible with God.
