Believing on his name

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

If you think (abiding and walking ) will save you spiritually then I would disagree.

You said elsewhere that spiritual salvation is the birth from above. That's a one-and-done event. It doesn't keep happening. Salvation is the preservation of the body, soul and spirit in eternity, and that requires work on our part to accomplish

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Thessalonians 5:23​

 

[HeIsHere]

Amen! That salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works is not hard to understand. It's just hard for works-salvationists to ACCEPT. It's a shame that human pride will not allow works-salvationists to trust in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation, giving Him all the glory, honor and credit for salvation. Instead, works-salvationists boast in self - self promotion, self righteousness and self preservation. For such folks, their hands are full of their works and they will not let go in order to receive Christ through faith.

For such folks, believing is mere mental assent, repentance is moral self-reformation, confession is lip service and water baptism was just a bath. Repentance is actually a change of mind which "precedes" believing in Christ unto salvation (Acts 11:17,18; 20:21) and confessing with our mouth that Jesus is Lord and believing in our heart that God has raised Him from the dead are not two separate steps to salvation but are chronologically together. (Romans 10:9,10) The word of faith is in our mouth and heart together. (Romans 10:8) Water baptism "follows" salvation through believing in Him (Acts 10:43-47) believing the gospel/faith. (Acts 15:7-9)

The natural man just cannot understand. (1 Corinthians 2:11-14)

Yes, evangelicalism sliding back to Catholicism in real time.

I have noticed a lot of moral self-reformation trying to replace the Gospel.

I sometimes think that is why Jesus stated....
"Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it".
Hard to leave self behind.

 

[mailmandan]

It’s not a matter of understanding what you are saying; your doctrine does not align with the teachings of the Bible and I cannot accept your false doctrine.

I already proved from Scripture that my doctrine does align with the teachings of the Bible and I properly harmonize Scripture with Scripture before reaching my conclusion on doctrine. The Bible is not simply a text book that we come to understand solely through human intelligence. There is more to coming to believing the gospel/saving faith in Christ than merely paper, ink and human intelligence. (John 6:44, 65; 1 Corinthians 1:18-21; 2:11-14; 2 Corinthians 4:3,4; 1 Thessalonians 1:5)

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Yes, evangelicalism sliding back to Catholicism in real time.

I have noticed a lot of moral self-reformation trying to replace the Gospel.

I sometimes think that is why Jesus stated....
"Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it".
Hard to leave self behind.

You appear to be so harmed by the Catholic church that you can't distinguish between something God said to do and unbiblical sacraments and such that ungodly men say to do.

 

[Beckworth]

My 5 minutes was up before I could update and finish this.

Man is saved by faith that trusts in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) Repentance preceded faith (Acts 20:21) and confession confirmed faith. (Romans 10:8-10; 1 Corinthians 12:3) Repentance and confession are not works for salvation that follow salvation through faith,

yet water baptism does "follow" salvation through faith. (Acts 10:43-47) So, it's not faith only in the sense that you keep implying and in regard to works, James is talking about feeding and clothing the poor (James 2:15-16) and is not using your argument about repentance, confession and baptism.

I've been typing for 3 hours straight this morning on three different Christian forum sites. It's time for a coffee break.

There is NOT 1 scripture in the Bible that says, “that we are saved by faith ( that trusts) alone. Just the opposite. There IS one that says we are NOT saved by faith alone. There is not even 1 scripture that defines or qualifies faith as “Trust”. God has not qualified the word “faith” as meaning “trust” or “repentance” or any other definition. That is all “man made”. God knows we know what faith is and he did not feel a need to “QUALIFY” is as a CERTAIN KIND of faith, nor did He see a need to “define” it in some particular way. Only man who needs to find a way to support his false doctrine makes such distinctions and “quibbles” about “special” meanings. We can easily see through such vain attempts to justify a doctrine that originated with John Calvin 1500 years after Christ and the Bible was written.

Give us a scripture, just 1, where God defines faith as “trust” or says that it has a “special meaning” that makes it different from the faith of the demons in James 2. Your explanation trying to make a distinction between “types” of faith it “different definitions of faith” is not in the Bible. God did not make a distinction in the “faith only” doctrine that you hold to and the faith of demons. God did not attribute a “special meaning” to the faith of the chief rulers who BELIEVED ON JESUS in John 12:42. Your argument to that is pure speculation and supposition. You can’t explain it because you insist on believing in John Calvin’s doctrine of “faith only.” A MAN-made doctrine, not supported by God or His word.

Why would I believe that!?!? 2 John 9 testifies that anyone who does not abide in the doctrine of Christ DOES NOT HAVE GOD.

 

[mailmandan]

Yes, evangelicalism sliding back to Catholicism in real time.

I have noticed a lot of moral self-reformation trying to replace the Gospel.

I sometimes think that is why Jesus stated....
"Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it".
Hard to leave self behind.

I was born and raised in the Roman Catholic church and had temporarily spent some time in the church of Christ as well prior to my conversion. Moral self-reformation is not a substitute for regeneration. Either we are trusting 100% in Jesus Christ alone for salvation or else we are 100% lost.

It does not get more narrow than that and this is not difficult to understand for those who humble themselves but it is difficult to accept for those who continue to trust in themselves/in their own righteousness. Reminds me of the parable of the Pharisee and the tax collector. (Luke 18:9-14)

 

[HeIsHere]

There is NOT 1 scripture in the Bible that says, “that we are saved by faith ( that trusts) alone. Just the opposite. There IS one that says we are NOT saved by faith alone. There is not even 1 scripture that defines or qualifies faith as “Trust”. God has not qualified the word “faith” as meaning “trust” or “repentance” or any other definition. That is all “man made”. God knows we know what faith is and he did not feel a need to “QUALIFY” is as a CERTAIN KIND of faith, nor did He see a need to “define” it in some particular way. Only man who needs to find a way to support his false doctrine makes such distinctions and “quibbles” about “special” meanings. We can easily see through such vain attempts to justify a doctrine that originated with John Calvin 1500 years after Christ and the Bible was written.

Give us a scripture, just 1, where God defines faith as “trust” or says that it has a “special meaning” that makes it different from the faith of the demons in James 2. Your explanation trying to make a distinction between “types” of faith it “different definitions of faith” is not in the Bible. God did not make a distinction in the “faith only” doctrine that you hold to and the faith of demons. God did not attribute a “special meaning” to the faith of the chief rulers who BELIEVED ON JESUS in John 12:42. Your argument to that is pure speculation and supposition. You can’t explain it because you insist on believing in John Calvin’s doctrine of “faith only.” A MAN-made doctrine, not supported by God or His word.

Why would I believe that!?!? 2 John 9 testifies that anyone who does not abide in the doctrine of Christ DOES NOT HAVE GOD.

What do you think faith is? Not the modern day definition but how it was understood in the Jesus' time?

 

[HeIsHere]

I was born and raised in the Roman Catholic church and had temporarily spent some time in the church of Christ prior to my conversion. Moral self-reformation is not a substitute for regeneration. Either we are trusting 100% in Jesus Christ alone for salvation or else we are 100% lost. It does not get more narrow than that and that is not difficult to understand for those who humble themselves but it is difficult to accept for those who continue to wrestle with human pride.

Either we are trusting 100% in Jesus Christ alone for salvation or else we are 100% lost.

Yes, thank you ... exactly..... you have made the point perfectly and succinctly.

 

[mailmandan]

What do you think faith is? Not the modern day definition but how it was understood in the Jesus' time?

Folks in the church of Christ basically redefine faith to "include" works. For them it's salvation through faith "conjoined" with works. In their sermons they will even cite James 2:19 in which even the demons believe and tremble as if all belief is the same except for the lack of good works. These folks cannot grasp a deeper faith that trusts in Jesus Christ alone for salvation, which also explains why they have so much faith in "water and works."

 

[Magenta]

Matthew 7:17-18, Luke 6:4a and from John 15:4-5 ~ Every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. For each tree is known by its own fruit. Just as no branch can bear fruit by itself unless it remains in the vine, neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in Me. I am the vine and you are the branches. Apart from Me you can do nothing.

 

[HeIsHere]

These folks cannot grasp a deeper faith that trusts in Jesus Christ alone for salvation, which also explains why they have so much faith in "water and works."

This is just me ....but I tend to be of the mind, that one cannot fully grasp what one has not experienced.

 

[GWH]

Circumcision was the law. Any who did not do it were cut off from Israel and the promises to Abraham. No way for such to have been saved.

Paul spoke in terms of GRFS (MUST),

TOP #24: The only circumcision that is salvific is that which is inward or of the heart and done by the Spirit. [RM 2:25-29, COL 2:11-12] Paul said that physical circumcision according to a written code has value only if one obeys the law, meaning perfectly per RM 3:23. The second passage (TOP #203) indicates that water baptism replaced fleshly circumcision as the outward sign of faith in God/Jesus.

TOP #44: Although many Jews reject the Gospel/Christ, God’s covenant with Abraham did not fail, because the children of Abraham includes (spiritually circumcised) Gentiles. [RM 9:1-33, cf. TOP #24] Paul explained that the reason Israelites are not saved is because they ignored God’s purpose in election or POS involving mercy (v.11-15) on those having faith in Christ and instead pursued righteousness by works or obeying the law (v.30-33).

Paul also spoke of the OT law as God's requirement for being a member of Messiah's heritage (must),

TOP #37: The law served to convict souls of sin, but the Spirit frees them from condemnation. [RM 7:7-8:8] Such release was made possible by the sin offering of Jesus (8:3).

TOP #115: The law empowers sin, and sin results in death, but Christ conquers both. [1CR 15:55-57] As Paul said in RM 7: 7&11, “I would not have known what sin was except through the law… and sin seized the opportunity afforded by the law… and through the commandment put me to death.” (Cf. TOP #22, 23 & 25.)

TOP #131: The purpose of the law of Moses was to lead people to faith in Christ. [GL 3:22-24] This truth is akin to TOP #37.

TOP #132: Now that the Gospel has been revealed, the Mosaic law no longer keeps us prisoners. [GL 3:25] This truth is also taught in HB 7:18-10:1 by saying the old Mosaic law or covenant (not Abrahamic) has been superseded by the new covenant of Christ, the Gospel. Saving faith makes souls sons/children of God (TOP #38).

(BOTH - AND :^)

 

[Magenta]

This is just me ....but I tend to be of the mind, that one cannot fully grasp what one has not experienced.

True... and that is why you call God keeping His promise to reveal Himself, "gnosis," and belittle and mock it... and
even claim God is unfair because He does not reveal Himself in exactly the same way from one person to another.

 

[jacko]

Why not do a study to find out how people in the New Testament were saved? You can be sure that if you are saved the same way they were saved, you will have God’s approval and truly have salvation. The Bible is true, isn’t it? God does not lie, does He? Can’t we trust what the Bible teaches us;? what the Bible says?

Men, on the other hand can deceive you. God warns many times about false prophets, false teachers, and the commandments of men. He tells us to “Try” or “test” the different “spirits,” to see if they are from God. He says in Acts 17 that people should “Search the scriptures” to see if teachings are true.

(1) “Admit you are a sinner”—while the scriptures teach that we ALL are sinners, I don’t remember any scripture that commands us to admit that in order to be saved. If there is no scripture to prove this, then it must be a “commandment of men.”

(2) “Believe Jesus is Lord and Savior.”—this is true and there are many scriptures that teach this. And while this is true and taught in the Bible, James 2:24 tells us that salvation is NOT by “faith only”, it is NOT by faith alone. In All of the scriptures in the New Testament that teach we are to believe or have faith, they do not say faith “alone” or faith only” (except James 2:24). This means that there can also be OTHER REQUIREMENTS for salvation.

The question “WHAT MUST I DO TO BE SAVED?” Is asked twice in the New Testament. Once in Acts 2:37 by the Jews at Pentecost and also in Acts 16:29 by the Philippian jailer. Aren’t you curious to know what the answer is to that question answered by God’s apostles? I mean they can’t be wrong. They would not be lying. Their answer to this question would surely be from God and would be the TRUTH. Here is what Peter, God’s apostle said in Acts 2:38–“ REPENT AND BE BAPTIZED, in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of sins…”. And here is Paul’s answer to the jailer—“ BELIEVE ON THE LORD JESUS CHRIST and you will be saved…I see you have PART of God’s answer for salvation in your post. Faith is certainly necessary, but not faith alone. You have not done ALL God has commanded you to do to be saved, if you have not also obeyed what Peter said. “Repent and be baptized.” These two answers do not cancel out each other. It is not a choice—one or the other, like going through a buffet line and saying “I’ll have this but I don’t want that.” This is God you are dealing with and His word. No part of His word can be disobeyed or ignored and still reap salvation. Let me assure you that Acts 2:38 is correct by telling you that this also is what JESUS CHRIST says to do in order to be saved in Mark 16:16–“ He that believes and is baptized shall be saved.” That incorporates BOTH ANSWERS given by Peter and Paul. Do you see what God wants you to do? He wants you to obey ALL He has said about salvation.

“Confession” is good and is definitely commanded by Jesus in the Bible. Matt. 10:32 and Roman’s 10:10. But there is not a scripture in the New Testament that commands us to “confess to following Jesus.” God tells us what He wants us to confess. 1 John 4:15 GOD says, “Whoever CONFESSES THAT JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD, God abides in him.” We also have a God-approved example of a man making that exact confession just before he is baptized in Acts 8:37. It’s important that you make the RIGHT confession; the one that God wants you to make.

So how does GOD answer the question of “What must I do to be saved?

(1) BELIEVE - Acts 16:30
(2) REPENT - Acts 2:38
(3) CONFESS THAT JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD -
1 John 4:15 and Acts 8:37
(4) BE BAPTIZED - Acts 2:38, Mark 16:16,
1 Peter 3:21

How does this compare with:
(1) admit you are a sinner
(2) believe Jesus is Lord and Savior
(3) confess to following Him.
You’re done!
????

Which is GOD’s plan of salvation?

God said, “ There is a way that SEEMS RIGHT but it leads to destruction.” Be careful.; obey God, not men.

You’re making this way more complicated than it needs to be.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

This is just me ....but I tend to be of the mind, that one cannot fully grasp what one has not experienced.

It's just you. You're deluded to think you have something special

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Folks in the church of Christ basically redefine faith to "include" works. For them it's salvation through faith "conjoined" with works. In their sermons they will even cite James 2:19 in which even the demons believe and tremble as if all belief is the same except for the lack of good works. These folks cannot grasp a deeper faith that trusts in Jesus Christ alone for salvation, which also explains why they have so much faith in "water and works."

The Church of Christ are legalists

 

[Beckworth]

I already proved from Scripture that my doctrine does align with the teachings of the Bible and I properly harmonize Scripture with Scripture before reaching my conclusion on doctrine. The Bible is not simply a text book that we come to understand solely through human intelligence. There is more to coming to believing the gospel/saving faith in Christ than merely paper, ink and human intelligence. (John 6:44, 65; 1 Corinthians 1:18-21; 2:11-14; 2 Corinthians 4:3,4; 1 Thessalonians 1:5)

Sorry, but you have not proved anything except that you are a follower of a man, John Calvin, and believe a a false doctrine.

You cannot explain how people in John 12:42 believe on Him but are not saved. You based your answer on presumption and supposition. The fact that they would not confess him tells us they were not saved, unless you want to go on record now as believing confession is NOT NECESSARY. Which would have to be true if you believe you are saved by faith alone. But then, John 12 shows that confession is necessary because that was something they needed to do but wouldn’t. Where is the proof in that??

You’re making this way more complicated than it needs to be.

I’m only QUOTING what the scripture says and giving you book, chapter, and verse for my answer. I am only making it as complicated as God and the Bible make it. If the Bible says it, whether you think it is complicated or not makes no difference.

 

[Beckworth]

The Church of Christ are legalists

What do you think faith is? Not the modern day definition but how it was understood in the Jesus' time?

Thayer, Strongs, and the KJ Bible dictionary all define it the same way, with one word—“belief.” Jesus did not have to “explain” faith to anyone when He used it in the New Testament. In James 2 the word faith did not have different meanings that had to be explained before people could understand what James said. Faith only was exactly that — belief all by itself. It was the same kind of faith the demons have and is the same kind of faith anytime it is used by God. God does not use “faith” with different meanings. How could we know what God was talking about if He did that. He does not accompany the word “faith” every time it is used in the Bible with “explanations “ as to what kind of faith He means. It is just—faith”. And it means simply “belief.” Man is the one who argues that it has “special” meanings that make it somehow different in one place from another. Like trying to explain away the “faith” the demons have in James 2. Man HAS to do that in order to protect his man made doctrine of faith only. But God DOESN’t have to do it nor does He do it.

 

[Beckworth]

Folks in the church of Christ basically redefine faith to "include" works. For them it's salvation through faith "conjoined" with works. In their sermons they will even cite James 2:19 in which even the demons believe and tremble as if all belief is the same except for the lack of good works. These folks cannot grasp a deeper faith that trusts in Jesus Christ alone for salvation, which also explains why they have so much faith in "water and works."

Oh, do you mean like YOU RE-DEFINE “faith?” According to you God needed to provide “explanations” with the word faith so we could understand just how your faith only is different from the kind of faith the demons have. Faith, you say, means “trust”, and change of life ( conduct) none of which is defined that way by Thayer, Strongs, or the KJ Bible dictionary. According to you, Faith means different things in different verses, but God must not have known that, because He never 1 time felt it necessary to explain what was “included” in a persons faith that made it different from the demons or the people in John 12 who believed but were not saved.

 

[HeIsHere]

God does not use “faith” with different meanings

I agree faith is faith.

Faith as a word and concept is found in many writings of the time period.

Faith itself it not what saves, in the case of the Gospel it is in whom the faith is placed that saves.

The book of James is speaking about people whose faith was dead, as in not in use, James is simply telling his audience who are believers that a non-working faith cannot save our lives from the deadly consequences of sin.

One also has to be careful with the letters written by James because he is does respond to an interlocutor/objector.