Is the word “legalist” in the Bible; or is that a word used by men? People often revert to “name calling” when they can’t refute Bible teaching. No problem. I’ve been called worse.
Believing on his name
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Is the word “legalist” in the Bible; or is that a word used by men? People often revert to “name calling” when they can’t refute Bible teaching. No problem. I’ve been called worse.
Is the word “legalist” in the Bible; or is that a word used by men? People often revert to “name calling” when they can’t refute Bible teaching. No problem. I’ve been called worse.
Legalists are described in Revelation 2:1-6. Zealous for following rules, but who have released the foremost love.
Not the “description” which can be subjective, but the word. If By”rules” you mean COMMANDMENTS, ( I don’t believe they are called “rules” by God), then I hope I am guilty.
or did you not know that “…keeping the commandments of God is what matters.” 1 Cor. 7:19.
The conclusion of the whole matter is “ fear God and keep His commandments.” Ecc. 12:13 It’s not those who say Lord, Lord but those who DO HIS WILL that will go to heaven. Matthew 7:
I’ll gladly take my chances with the Bible.
Forbidding musical instruments is an example of man-made rules. Definitely not a commandment of God
“you are mistaken, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.” Matthew 22:29.
3 Praise him with the sounding of the trumpet,
praise him with the harp and lyre,
4 praise him with timbrel and dancing,
praise him with the strings and pipe,
5 praise him with the clash of cymbals,
praise him with resounding cymbals.
—Psalm 150:3-5
Written to and about the Jews under the Old Testament. This not only does not apply to “Christians” but it was written BEFORE the church of Christ was in existence; even before Christ was born into the world.
Are you a Jew? No? Then this is not meant for you and it certainly is not instruction for CHRISTIANS. and in no way does it apply to the church of Christ.
You need to “learn how to RIGHTLY divide the word of God.” 2 Tim. 2:15.
Galatians 5:4 and 6b ~ You who are trying to be justified by the law have been severed from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. All that matters is faith, expressed through love.
A truly weak rationalization. It's really inconceivable that anyone would think God would forbid musical instruments in worship. Thank you for confirming my impression that the Church of Christ denomination are nitpicking legalists.
So, you don't understand that faith involves trust, (yet you trust in works) and you also don't understand that Jesus Christ alone is the object of our faith in receiving salvation. (John 10:9; 14:6; Acts 4:12) So, who else is the door along with Jesus? Who else is the way, the truth and the life, along with Jesus? What other name under heaven is given to mankind by which we must be saved? JESUS CHRIST ALONE.
The Bible makes it clear in many passages of scripture that man is saved through belief/faith - "apart from additions or modifications." (John 1:12; 3:15,16,18,36; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43; 11:17; 13:39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18; Romans 1:16; 3:24-28; 4:5-6; 5:1-2; 10:4; 1 Corinthians 1:21; Galatians 2:16; 3:6-14, 26; Ephesians 2:8,9; Philippians 3:9; 2 Timothy 3:15; Hebrews 10:39; 1 John 5:13 etc..).
Now you don't need to add the word "alone" next to "belief/faith" in each of these passages of scripture in order to figure out that the words, "belief/faith" stand alone in connection with receiving eternal life/salvation. Hence, FAITH ALONE. Do these many passages of scripture say belief/faith "plus something else?" Plus, baptism? Plus, works? NO. So, then it's faith (rightly understood) in Jesus Christ alone. *Not to be confused with an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains "alone" - barren of works. (James 2:14-24)
God knows what faith is, but you don't. I never defined faith as repentance. I simply pointed out that repentance "precedes" faith. You don't seem to listen very well. You are so busy trying to erect a straw man and "parroting off" what your predecessors before you have taught that you don't carefully listen to what I am actually saying.
Hebrews 11:1 - Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. (KJV)
Hebrews 11:1 - Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. (NASB)
Faith is not salvation by works. (Ephesians 2:8,9)
Now as for faith involving trust, I proved you wrong below:
Strong's Lexicon
pistis: Faith, belief, trust, confidence, fidelity
Original Word: πίστις
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: pistis
Pronunciation: PIS-tis
Phonetic Spelling: (pis'-tis)
Definition: Faith, belief, trust, confidence, fidelity
Meaning: faith, belief, trust, confidence; fidelity, faithfulness.
Usage: In the New Testament, "pistis" primarily denotes a conviction or belief in the truth of something, often with the implication of trust and reliance. It is used to describe the faith that believers have in God and Jesus Christ, encompassing both intellectual assent and trustful commitment. "Pistis" is foundational to the Christian life, as it is through faith that believers are justified and live out their relationship with God.
Strong's Greek: 4102. πίστις (pistis) -- Faith, belief, trust, confidence, fidelity
Roman Catholics love to make this same erroneous argument. Blame everything on John Calvin.
I just showed you above where faith involves trust. It's not about special meanings. It's about faith that involves trust vs. faith that merely involves "mental assent" belief. In James 2:19, we see that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they do not believe in the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Do you believe the demons are saved? Their trust and reliance are in Satan (and not in Jesus) as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works. There is a difference between mere "mental assent" belief (as the demons have) and saving belief in Christ, which the demons do not have. Simple! You really need to stop fighting against the truth.
I have already told you numerous times that I don't teach salvation by "faith only" per James 2:24 which is not genuine faith but a bare profession of faith. (James 2:14) I teach salvation through faith in Jesus Christ alone. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) This means that I am trusting in Jesus Christ alone for salvation and not that I have a dead faith that produces no works. Those who have been saved by grace through faith have been made alive together with Christ, created in Christ Jesus unto good works. (Ephesians 2:5-10) Good works are the fruit, by product and demonstrative evidence of authentic faith, but not the essence of faith and also not the basis or means by which we obtain salvation. Let's see if you can wrap your head around that.
Your straw man arguments and false accusations are getting old. I really don't appreciate your slander. Now we have limited information on these chief rulers to know the extent of their belief, so it's your arguments that are speculation and supposition. Since you think that ALL belief is the same then you have the demons in James 2:19 saved. The Greek word "pisteuo" is the same Greek word for believe in James 2:19 and Acts 16:31. Imagine that. So, not all belief is the same. Elsewhere in Scripture, John has portrayed people who "believe" (at least to some extent) but are clearly not saved.
In John 2:23-25, in which their belief was superficial in nature and Jesus would not entrust/commit Himself to them. Also, in John 8:31-59, where the Jews who were said to have "believed in him" turn out to be slaves to sin, indifferent to the words of Jesus’, children of the devil, liars, accused Jesus of having a demon and were guilty of setting out to stone and kill the one they have professed to believe in. We can see at best, these Jews believed in Him (based on their own misconceptions and expectations) of Jesus, yet upon gaining further knowledge about Jesus through His words, we see they did not believe unto salvation and become children of God (John 1:12; 3:18) but were instead children of the devil. In James 2:19, we see that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" but they do not believe in/on the Lord Jesus Christ and are not saved. (Acts 16:31) This remains your Achilles heel.
In Matthew 16:16, we see that Peter confessed Christ, yet later, we see that Peter had a weak moment and refused to confess Christ during Jesus' arrest. He even denied knowing Jesus 3 times. We know that Peter was saved even though he had a weak moment. Your argument about the chief rulers having sufficient belief in Jesus (step 1 complete) but failing to confess Jesus (step 3 incomplete) so they won't be saved (based on failing to confess) is pure speculation and supposition.
In Matthew 10:32-33, the broader context of this passage relates to the fact that the Pharisees had continuously denied Jesus while the disciples spoke about Him everywhere they went. We may sum up His teaching this way: "Whoever confesses me before men (such as you disciples), I will confess him before my Father in heaven. But whoever denies me before men (like these Pharisees do on every occasion they get), I will deny him before my Father in heaven.
Those who confess Jesus are those who recognize Him as being the true Messiah and trust in Him as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation. Those who deny Jesus (and those who give mere lip service confession) but refuse to trust in Him alone for salvation place themselves beyond any possibility of salvation, since salvation is found only in Him. (John 3:5,16,18; 10:9; 14:6; Acts 4:12)
The word for "deny" is an aorist tense. This points to the fact that Jesus is not talking about a single instance of denial (as was the case with Peter, who actually denied Him three times - Luke 22:34), but is referring to life in its entirety. Hence, the person who throughout his life denies Christ (as was typically the case with the Pharisees and includes unbelievers who may even give mere "lip service confession" - Matthew 7:21-23 but lack saving faith in Christ) will be denied by Christ before the Father.
In regard to 2 John 9, those who transgress and do not abide in the doctrine of Christ and do not have God" (never did) and
those who abide in the doctrine of Christ and have both the Father and the Son.
If they were not saved then they did not have saving belief in Christ. In that case, their lack of confession demonstrated that the stage in the progress of their belief in Jesus fell short of being firmly rooted and established resulting in salvation. Confession is a confirmation of faith and not a work for salvation. A lack of confession in isolated situations as we saw with Peter when he denied Christ 3 times, was a weak moment out of fear, but that does not mean Peter did not have faith. He did not remain in denial and went on to boldly preach Christ out of faith.
Faith in Jesus Christ alone. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) Not faith in works. For those with genuine faith the word of faith is in their mouth and heart together. (Roans 10:8)
We have limited information here to know whether or not this was an isolated situation of failing to confess (as with Peter when he denied Jesus 3 times) or if this was a confirmation that the stage in the progress of belief in Jesus for these chief rulers fell short of saving belief in Jesus. The belief of demons certainly falls short of saving belief. (James 2:19)
Even the devil can quote scripture, and he has to Jesus, but the devil twists the scriptures. Untaught and unstable people twist the scriptures as well and to their own destruction. (2 peter 3:16)
Like when you referred to me as a Calvinist?
It amazes me how I have explained to you multiple times that I do not teach salvation by "faith only" per James 2:24 (empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains alone) - "barren of works." (James 2:14) I teach salvation through faith in Jesus Christ alone. The "alone" part means I am trusting in Jesus Christ alone for salvation (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) and not that my faith remains alone - "barren of works." You just can't get this through your head!
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Galatians 5:4 and 6b ~ You who are trying to be justified by the law have been severed from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. All that matters is faith, expressed through love.
Galatians 5:4 and 6b ~ You who are trying to be justified by the law have been severed from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. All that matters is faith, expressed through love.[/QUOTE]
If you read verses 1-4 you will see that Paul is talking about the law that contains “circumcision”. That was only the Old Testament law of the Jews. The law of Christ never required physical circumcision. So, yes, I agree that circumcision and the old Jewish law does not justify anyone and if we try to keep that law we will be severed from Christ.
But what that has to do with this post, I do not know.
Amen! When I was a teenager, I had temporarily attended the so called "church of Christ" and they taught me that ONLY "their" church is the "True Church" and they quoted Romans 16:16 in an effort to support their claim because it mentions the specific words, "churches of Christ. Such a silly claim! I guess those who attend the church of God denomination could also try to use these verses (Acts 20:28; 1 Corinthians 1:22; 10:32; 11:22 etc..) in an effort to teach they are the only true Church as well because those verses use the specific words, "church of God."
They also taught me that musical instruments are nowhere to be found in the New Testament during worship and are forbidden to be used during worship in church and result in worshipping God in vain. The church of Christ that I temporarily attended sang acapella ONLY during worship and practically condemned other churches that used musical instruments during worship.
Musical instruments when used with care, can enhance the singing of praise to the Lord. That was seen by the Christian church that split from the church of Christ. Musical instruments were obviously considered a help to praise in the Old Testament. It seems strange to say that something God thought was a blessing in the Old Testament and is now an evil in the New Testament church.
Since instrumental music has the Old Testament precedent of being approved of God ("musical instruments of God" 1 Chronicles 16:42), and there is no evidence that there was a time when this approval ceased, we have biblical authority for its validity.
We are authorized to use “psalms” in the NT (Ephesians 5:19; Colossians 3:16). Ephesians 5:19 says "..speaking to one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs.." and correspondingly Colossians 3:16 says to, "..admonish one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs." The word "psalm" in the Greek dictionary, definition (#5568): "A set piece of music, i.e. a sacred ode (accompanied with the voice, harp, or other instrument)." The root word of psalm means "to twitch, twang or pluck," such as pluck a string of a musical instrument."
Strong's Concordance
psalmos: a striking (of musical strings), a psalm
Original Word: ψαλμός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: psalmos
Phonetic Spelling: (psal-mos')
Short Definition: a psalm
Definition: a psalm, song of praise, the Hebrew book of Psalms.
HELPS Word-studies
5568 psalmós – a psalm ("Scripture set to music"). Originally, a psalm (5568 /psalmós) was sung and accompanied by a plucked musical instrument (typically a harp), especially the OT Psalms.
[The Psalms of the OT were often sung and were accompanied by sophisticated musical arrangements].
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from psalló
Definition
a striking (of musical strings), a psalm
NASB Translation
Psalm (1), psalm (1), Psalms (3), psalms (2).
The words "making melody" are used in Ephesians 5:19, but "how" this is done is found in Isaiah 23:16, and it is with a musical instrument:" Take an harp, go about the city, thou harlot that hast been forgotten; make sweet melody, sing many songs, that thou mayest be remembered."
Also, Amos 5:23 speaks of "the melody of thy viols," which is also reference to a musical instrument. So if "the Bible interprets itself," these passages show "how" to make melody – with musical instruments.
*If the church of Christ (or any other church) wants to leave out musical instruments in their worship, that is their prerogative. But I don't believe that it's right for them to judge and condemn everyone else who chooses to use musical instruments like David did and as the apostle Paul instructed. That is when it becomes legalism!
Your opinion of the church of Christ or its members is of little consequence and of no importance whatsoever. It’s only God’s opinion that matters. In that, we are doing quite well. It’s obvious that you can’t defend your position with “Bible” so resorting to name calling and criticism is no big surprise and totally expected. However, Jesus said when you are “ reproached for the name of Christ” you are blessed. So you are only doing me “good” not harm.
Musical instruments when used with care, can enhance the singing of praise to the Lord. That was seen by the Christian church that split from the church of Christ. Musical instruments were obviously considered a help to praise in the Old Testament. It seems strange to say that something God thought was a blessing in the Old Testament and is now an evil in the New Testament church.
Since instrumental music has the Old Testament precedent of being approved of God ("musical instruments of God" 1 Chronicles 16:42), and there is no evidence that there was a time when this approval ceased, we have biblical authority for its validity.
We are authorized to use “psalms” in the NT (Ephesians 5:19; Colossians 3:16). Ephesians 5:19 says "..speaking to one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs.." and correspondingly Colossians 3:16 says to, "..admonish one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs." The word "psalm" in the Greek dictionary, definition (#5568): "A set piece of music, i.e. a sacred ode (accompanied with the voice, harp, or other instrument)." The root word of psalm means "to twitch, twang or pluck," such as pluck a string of a musical instrument."
Strong's Concordance
psalmos: a striking (of musical strings), a psalm
Original Word: ψαλμός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: psalmos
Phonetic Spelling: (psal-mos')
Short Definition: a psalm
Definition: a psalm, song of praise, the Hebrew book of Psalms.
HELPS Word-studies
5568 psalmós – a psalm ("Scripture set to music"). Originally, a psalm (5568 /psalmós) was sung and accompanied by a plucked musical instrument (typically a harp), especially the OT Psalms.
[The Psalms of the OT were often sung and were accompanied by sophisticated musical arrangements].
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from psalló
Definition
a striking (of musical strings), a psalm
NASB Translation
Psalm (1), psalm (1), Psalms (3), psalms (2).
The words "making melody" are used in Ephesians 5:19, but "how" this is done is found in Isaiah 23:16, and it is with a musical instrument:" Take an harp, go about the city, thou harlot that hast been forgotten; make sweet melody, sing many songs, that thou mayest be remembered."
Also, Amos 5:23 speaks of "the melody of thy viols," which is also reference to a musical instrument. So if "the Bible interprets itself," these passages show "how" to make melody – with musical instruments.
*If the church of Christ (or any other church) wants to leave out musical instruments in their worship, that is their prerogative. But I don't believe that it's right for them to judge and condemn everyone else who chooses to use musical instruments like David did and as the apostle Paul instructed. That is when it becomes legalism![/QUOT
There are lots of things in the Old Testament law that was approved by God then that are not approved under the new law of Christ. An “eye for an eye” vengeance was approved under the Old Testament law but not under the new law of Christ. Matt. 5. Circumcision was an approved law for them, but not for us under the new law of Christ. God approved animal sacrifices for them, but not for us under the new law of Christ. In fact, the whole chapter of Matthew 5 is about God changing laws that Were approved in the Old Testament but not in the new law of Christ. the laws on Divorce is another example of something that he changed. I fail to understand how you find this “strange
There is nothing “strange” about that.
The Holy Spirit says to make melody IN YOUR HEART—not musical instruments. And whatever making melody means, it is to be done in the HEART.
On the contrary, there is much evidence that proves the old law that used musical instruments ceased. Just read the books of Hebrews and Galations. Hebrews 7 even states that the law was changed. I have posted many comments on CC about “rightly dividing the law of Christ” 2 Tim. 2:15, and the difference between the old law of the Jews and the New law of Christ for Christians. I refer you to those discussions if you want to debate this. You may cite all of the Old Testament laws and scriptures you like—but you are using OBSOLETE material as your authority as Hebrews 8:13 says. That law and those practices have “VANISHED AWAY.” it will do you no good. If that’s your authority, then you are WITHOUT authority for your practice.
Since instrumental music has the Old Testament precedent of being approved of God ("musical instruments of God" 1 Chronicles 16:42), and there is no evidence that there was a time when this approval ceased, we have biblical authority for its validity.
We are authorized to use “psalms” in the NT (Ephesians 5:19; Colossians 3:16). Ephesians 5:19 says "..speaking to one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs.." and correspondingly Colossians 3:16 says to, "..admonish one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs." The word "psalm" in the Greek dictionary, definition (#5568): "A set piece of music, i.e. a sacred ode (accompanied with the voice, harp, or other instrument)." The root word of psalm means "to twitch, twang or pluck," such as pluck a string of a musical instrument."
Strong's Concordance
psalmos: a striking (of musical strings), a psalm
Original Word: ψαλμός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: psalmos
Phonetic Spelling: (psal-mos')
Short Definition: a psalm
Definition: a psalm, song of praise, the Hebrew book of Psalms.
HELPS Word-studies
5568 psalmós – a psalm ("Scripture set to music"). Originally, a psalm (5568 /psalmós) was sung and accompanied by a plucked musical instrument (typically a harp), especially the OT Psalms.
[The Psalms of the OT were often sung and were accompanied by sophisticated musical arrangements].
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from psalló
Definition
a striking (of musical strings), a psalm
NASB Translation
Psalm (1), psalm (1), Psalms (3), psalms (2).
The words "making melody" are used in Ephesians 5:19, but "how" this is done is found in Isaiah 23:16, and it is with a musical instrument:" Take an harp, go about the city, thou harlot that hast been forgotten; make sweet melody, sing many songs, that thou mayest be remembered."
Also, Amos 5:23 speaks of "the melody of thy viols," which is also reference to a musical instrument. So if "the Bible interprets itself," these passages show "how" to make melody – with musical instruments.
*If the church of Christ (or any other church) wants to leave out musical instruments in their worship, that is their prerogative. But I don't believe that it's right for them to judge and condemn everyone else who chooses to use musical instruments like David did and as the apostle Paul instructed. That is when it becomes legalism
Some here well one .. so used by God.. walking with Him. with just two picture said it all. I thank you Father for that.
Yeah I should saw this one coming but what pulled me in haha so to speak was "believing on His name" Ohhh yes praise GOD glory to Jesus. as our forefathers/elder brothers said (Peter and John) "why look at us as if we did this by our own power. That name faith in that name healed this man". Praise GOD nothing has changed.
So saw it coming.. almost every time someone talks about salvation and how easy it is we get allot of personal belief. When Christ or God through Christ said John 3:16-17 there was no if ands or buts. No one telling them to remember what the Torah said well there was no Matt-Rev so.. wow how did anyone get saved by just believing only what Christ said? Today we break down every word and what it really meant....which is praise GOD awesome but even with in that not all can agree on what some words really mean.. that gets left out allot.
So just exactly. like our elder brother Peter said I received the gift of the Holy Spirit just by asking Luke 11 13. Have you received the Holy Spirit since you believed "do you want the Holy Spirit? they asked? Knew the name but no clue what it was. Did early like they did back then and received. Same with salvaiton just Baptist preacher talked about hell and burning. at 9 .. haha me always flipping him off (Forgve me lord) that next week had a dream about hell. I don't remember ever sharing it the short is I was in this fire.. it was all around and something evil satan? NO clue it just said "Ah ha I got you". So crying going up front and I still have the box they gave me 54 years ago "the fore spiritual laws".
I just asked Him into my heart and didn't change that day or the next or that next year yet.. what He started He finishes. That was not His way but anyone that comes to Him He will in no way cast out. With in that was the pull. Sorry are personal belief on salvation is not what GOD hold anyone accountable to. Anyone that calls on His name shall be saved .. because He's real. He knows they have never seen Him never heard His voice.. that simple choice is all He needs to make something new with us. Sorry but we all grow in the spirit differently. So knowing the word in side and out .. knowing accent Greek/Greek/Hebrew so forth .. you can still be babe in Christ.
We do not get a say in how one has to be saved... read John 3:16-17 read Rom 10:9-10. As sis showed us in pictures.. He is real.
Yeah I should saw this one coming but what pulled me in haha so to speak was "believing on His name" Ohhh yes praise GOD glory to Jesus. as our forefathers/elder brothers said (Peter and John) "why look at us as if we did this by our own power. That name faith in that name healed this man". Praise GOD nothing has changed.
So saw it coming.. almost every time someone talks about salvation and how easy it is we get allot of personal belief. When Christ or God through Christ said John 3:16-17 there was no if ands or buts. No one telling them to remember what the Torah said well there was no Matt-Rev so.. wow how did anyone get saved by just believing only what Christ said? Today we break down every word and what it really meant....which is praise GOD awesome but even with in that not all can agree on what some words really mean.. that gets left out allot.
So just exactly. like our elder brother Peter said I received the gift of the Holy Spirit just by asking Luke 11 13. Have you received the Holy Spirit since you believed "do you want the Holy Spirit? they asked? Knew the name but no clue what it was. Did early like they did back then and received. Same with salvaiton just Baptist preacher talked about hell and burning. at 9 .. haha me always flipping him off (Forgve me lord) that next week had a dream about hell. I don't remember ever sharing it the short is I was in this fire.. it was all around and something evil satan? NO clue it just said "Ah ha I got you". So crying going up front and I still have the box they gave me 54 years ago "the fore spiritual laws".
I just asked Him into my heart and didn't change that day or the next or that next year yet.. what He started He finishes. That was not His way but anyone that comes to Him He will in no way cast out. With in that was the pull. Sorry are personal belief on salvation is not what GOD hold anyone accountable to. Anyone that calls on His name shall be saved .. because He's real. He knows they have never seen Him never heard His voice.. that simple choice is all He needs to make something new with us. Sorry but we all grow in the spirit differently. So knowing the word in side and out .. knowing accent Greek/Greek/Hebrew so forth .. you can still be babe in Christ.
We do not get a say in how one has to be saved... read John 3:16-17 read Rom 10:9-10. As sis showed us in pictures.. He is real.