Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[Magenta]

It also shows the truth that dwelling on sinful thoughts leads to sinful actions. Think the related scripture
says something like when looking at the fruit, it became good to her eyes? Something like that.

When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for
gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it.

James 1:14-15; 1 John 2:16 Each one is tempted when by his own evil desires he is lured away and enticed. Then after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death. For all that is in the world- the desires of the flesh, the desires of the eyes, and the pride of life- is not from the Father but from the world. .

 

[SonJudgment]

It also shows the truth that dwelling on sinful thoughts leads to sinful actions. Think the related scripture says something like when looking at the fruit, it became good to her eyes? Something like that.

Well she didn't even really look at the fruit until the serpent called it to her attention with subtlty when he first suggested to her that she has freewill to eat from all the trees.

 

[LifelongLearner]

If that where the case i would not have bothered responding to your posts / your thoughts.. My objective is two sided.. Firstly To Help you.. And secondly to take a stand against false doctrine..

Now if you want to reject my attempts to help you and you are confident in your POV over you not having free will then my posts will only be about resisting false doctrine.. The doctrine that people have no free will is Calvinism and i will oppose calvinism because i believe it is false.. And yeah for the time being this forum allows people to express their opposition to calvinism.. It also allows people to post their support for calvinist doctrines.. I am cool with the forum allowing both responses..

I won't say for certain it wasn't helping me you had in mind, but think it unlikely. It would have been better if you settled for discussing our opinions in a friendly manner, rather than trying to force your opinion on me.

 

[Magenta]

Romans 16:16, Titus 3:3, John 8:34 ~ Do you not know that when you offer yourselves as obedient slaves, you are slaves to the one you obey, whether you are slaves to sin leading to death, or to obedience leading to righteousness? For at one time we too were foolish, disobedient, misled, and enslaved to all sorts of desires and pleasures. Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. A slave is not a permanent member of the family,
but a son belongs to it forever.”
Thank you for the inspiration! I hope you and yours are well .

 

[LifelongLearner]

Well she didn't even really look at the fruit until the serpent called it to her attention with subtlty when he first suggested to her that she has freewill to eat from all the trees.

Thanks SJ but thought it unnecessary as people here know? Not being facetious, just making a point about dwelling on sinful actions leading to actual deeds.

 

[Adstar]

Do you really think the subject of free will in Christian circles has to do with what colour of socks you choose to
wear or what you decide to eat for lunch?

I was using those points as examples / as analogies to HELP others to come to understand that we do have free will.. of course i know what the theological ramifications of the free will debate within Christianity is..

That being that if the calvinist there is no free will is correct.. Then NO one can have any free will to either accept the Way of Salvation or Reject the way of salvation.. That God created humans with no ability to embrace His will or Reject his will.. That God creates one human being who will be forced to accept His will and be saved and He creates other human beings who are barred from accepting His will, that God creates people for no other purpose then to burn in the eternal lake of fire to somehow show off His power and control..

If people want to believe this is the will of God then they can stand before God at the last judgement and try to explain to Him their justification is making Him out to be some kind of twisted psychopath who created people with zero opportunity / hope..

As per the OP, even those options are restricted when viewed properly...

Restrictions does not mean the elimination of Free Will.. Possible consequences does not take away the ability of people to make a chose.. The prospect of eternity in torment in the Lake of Fire does not prevent people deciding to reject the Way of salvation.. People reject the gift of the Way of salvation every day in this world..

And that would be, what options the unregenerated person has, as a slave to sin and lover of darkness.

In relation to salvation NO OPTION.. But as i have already stated that's why the Holy Spirit calls many.. But again if the Holy Spirits calling was irresistible according to calvinism then all who where called would bve chosen.. And anyone not called would be damned to eternal torment simply because God chose not to call them..

 

[Adstar]

I agree that man must make this decision. However, since the Holy Spirit was involved - the decision come from a new heart! This would never happen without grace from a loving God. Therefore, it is a gift.

Of course salvation is a gift.. and the actual working/moving of the Holy Spirit is a gif of love.. But in the end i can offer a person a gift but to have the gift They need to actually accept the gift.. God does not shove the gift into a persons hands and forcing them to hold on to it.. He convinces and convicts people and they decide to believe Him and have Faith in His Way of salvation by their own will, or they either think the Way is foolishness or think the way of salvation is evil and they reject it..

 

[SonJudgment]

Thanks SJ but thought it unnecessary as people here know? Not being facetious, just making a point about dwelling on sinful actions leading to actual deeds.

It could but it also might not. Thoughts are just thoughts, they come and they go. Some people overthink things too much, and some people should have paused and took more thought before they acted.

 

[Magenta]

That being that if the calvinist there is no free will is correct.. Then NO one can have
any free will to either accept the Way of Salvation or Reject the way of salvation..

That is just one of the many places people err... the enabled person is ENABLED.

That would be the spiritual man. NOT the natural man. The natural man is hostile in his mind toward God.

Gosh. You would think nobody ever read such a statement in Scripture. It is universal.

 

[Adstar]

I won't say for certain it wasn't helping me you had in mind, but think it unlikely. """It would have been better if you settled for discussing our opinions in a friendly manner, rather than trying to force your opinion on me."""

My replies have focused on delivering the thoughts that i have as clearly as i can and opposing those doctrines that i believe are wrong.. It has NEVER been a personal attack on anyone involved in this thread.. I have absolutely no ill intent or feelings towards you or anyone else i respond to in this thread.. I am focused on the definitions and doctrines..

I think you are falling into the trap of taking things are personal, instead of simply dealing with the points being brought forward..

As for ""forcing my opinion"" I cannot force my beliefs on ANYONE.. You cannot force your opinion on anyone.. Why because we both have the free willed ability to believe as we believe.. Yeah just another point supporting that we both have free will .

I think there is a problem with people who seem unable to engage in a discussion without interpreting difference of opinion as a personal attack from the person who disagrees with them.. It's a human fault that i try my best to avoid.. Have i ever fallen into having an unjustified persecution complex? No doubt i have on occasions.. But we should do all we can to resist such misleading emotional reactions..

 

[studentoftheword]

Sinfulness is a Condition – but Sin is a Choice!
https://peterhorrobin.com/2011/09/sinfulness-is-a-condition-but-sin-is-a-choice/


https://www.bibletools.org/index.cf...w/RTD/cgg/ID/20555/We-Make-Choice-Sin-Not.htm
What the Bible says about We Make Choice to Sin or Not
(From Forerunner Commentary)

Mark 7:20-23

In the Judgment, we cannot say, “The Devil made me do it” or “The world was so corrupt, I didn't have a chance.” Despite outside influences, each of us makes the choice to sin or not. Our choices reveal what is in our hearts, and too often we choose these wicked activities and others beside. We cannot foist the blame onto others because our sins come from within.

Richard T. Ritenbaugh

 

[Adstar]

That is just one of the many places people err... the enabled person is ENABLED.

Yes we have been enabled by the Holy Spirit to be able to make the choice of salvlation.. And we have made the right choice sister

 

[Magenta]

Yes we have been enabled by the Holy Spirit to be able to make the choice of salvlation.. And we have made the right choice sister

Amen. So all this oh, we can choose to eat ice cream or frozen yogurt, therefore the will of the natural man is free,
is a ridiculous sort of argument, and completely misses what the dialogue is about in the first place.
Many ascribe to the natural man what only the spiritual man can do. It is quite an egregious oversight.

 

[studentoftheword]

Read all for yourselves ---I just posted this part

https://www.gotquestions.org/go-and-sin-no-more.html
Why did Jesus tell people to “go and sin no more” if sinlessness is impossible?


In saying, “Go and sin no more,” Jesus was not speaking of sinless perfection. He was warning against a return to sinful lifestyle choices. His words both extended mercy and demanded holiness. Jesus was always the perfect balance of “grace and truth” (John 1:14). With forgiveness comes the expectation that we will not continue in the same path of rebelliousness. Those who know God’s love will naturally want to obey Him (John 14:15).

 

[LifelongLearner]

It could but it also might not. Thoughts are just thoughts, they come and they go. Some people overthink things too much, and some people should have paused and took more thought before they acted.

Wow! Something i can fully agree with, that's good. Like i said, civilised debate/discussion floats my boat, i LOATHE the attempted gotcha stuff there's been so much of today.

This part is an edit, forgot to mention i have read a scripture which says not to dwell on sinful thoughts as they can lead to sinful actions. Which i think is true, one of you probably knows the one i mean, not good at remembering where particular scriptures are located yet.

 

[SonJudgment]

Wow! Something i can fully agree with, that's good. Like i said, civilised debate/discussion floats my boat, i LOATHE the attempted gotcha stuff there's been so much of today.

Don't let it bother you, it is the destiny of all topics about freewill lol.

 

[LifelongLearner]

Don't let it bother you, it is the destiny of all topics about freewill lol.

Cheers for saying, i'd better get used to stuff like that then.

 

[LifelongLearner]

Will do the through the night meal for my beautiful little cat soon and get some sleep. Time for one more quick game of chess.

 

[sawdust]

Sorry but your comment reads like so many wishful soundbites to me, there's nothing there i agree with.

Are you a Universalist?

 

[sawdust]

Free will is the capability to fulfill a choice, choosing is the act of making one.

Free will is the ability to make a determination without undue influence from external forces. Power is the ability to fulfill that determination. God fulfills His will because He is all powerful, not because his volition is free. We, on the other hand, do not have the power to fulfill our own desires but we have been given the freedom to make our own determinations regarding ourselves, especially in relation to our response to the Lord.