The Teachings of Paul (TOP)

[GWH]

TOP #66: Governments or rulers that are not tyrannical toward rightdoers are ordained by God to punish wrongdoers and should be obeyed. [RM 13:1-5, TIT 3:1] Those who stop reading the Romans passage at verse two might misinterpret what it means. The reason for obedience should not only be fear of punishment but also because it is morally right.

TOP #67: Pay taxes to support good governors. [RM 13:6-7] Jesus taught this in MT 22:18-21.

TOP #68: God’s moral laws may be summed up by the command to love one another. [RM 13:8-10] Jesus taught in MT 22:37-38 that the greatest or primary commandment is to love God as Lord. TOP #138 calls its manifestations the fruit of the Spirit.

TOP #69: Stop sinning and become like Jesus. [RM 13:12-14] This TOP is equivalent to #68, which underlie other variations on this theme, such as #57-67.

TOP #70: Do not judge believers on the basis of secondary disputable doctrines. [RM 14:1-12] An example is whether or not it is right to eat meat. Another is whether the Sabbath is more holy than other days of the week (cf. CL 2:16). This TOP is akin to #204.

 

[PAC-fit]

This TOP is akin to #204.

Another thread, sub-post or some such?

 

[GWH]

Another thread, sub-post or some such?

TOP #204: Observing the Sabbath or other laws not reaffirmed in the NT is optional. [COL 2:16-17 & 21-23, cf. RM 14, TOP #70] Such laws are optional because they are not part of the eternal moral code, but even observing those is not the way to obtain salvation and the HS.

(It is further down the list on my website: <truthseekersfellowship.com> :^)

 

[JaumeJ]

The primary intent in the this thread is to compile a comprehensive survey of the teachings of Paul (TOP) rather than to conduct an exhaustive discussion of each one. It begins by examining the TOP in the book of Acts and then follows the order of the epistles. Some of Paul’s statements seem meant for that historical occasion rather than for the purpose of teaching a doctrinal or moral truth (e.g., ACTS 13:10-11 & 22:1-21), so they are not mentioned. Minimal commentary may be made, hoping that it is helpful.

TOP #1: God chose Israel for the purpose of providing the Savior Jesus, who was crucified but raised from the dead in fulfillment of prophecy, and through whom the good news regarding forgiveness of sins by faith in Him is proclaimed. [ACTS 13:16-39]

When the Children of Israel were in the wilderness, they were disobedient, and by their disobedience salvation was gained by the nations.

I do read Pul, but my only Authority, when it comes down to it, is Jesus Yeshua. It seems most intra-dissension stems from the Epistles, ergo, Jesus Yeshua gives us peace.

Note: Paul is possibly an apostle by the meaning of the word but he does not number of the Twelve,; the would be Mattias fulfilling the prophecy that the traitor's place would be decided by lot. Lot was not determined by Yahweh.

 

[JaumeJ]

Sorry, the custom of Israelis to cast lots was their manner of putting the response in the Hand of Yahweh, yes it was.

 

[GWH]

When the Children of Israel were in the wilderness, they were disobedient, and by their disobedience salvation was gained by the nations.

I do read Pul, but my only Authority, when it comes down to it, is Jesus Yeshua. It seems most intra-dissension stems from the Epistles, ergo, Jesus Yeshua gives us peace.

Note: Paul is possibly an apostle by the meaning of the word but he does not number of the Twelve,; the would be Mattias fulfilling the prophecy that the traitor's place would be decided by lot. Lot was not determined by Yahweh.

Note: You most likely would never have heard of Jesus if Paul had not spread the Gospel and worked with two of the gospel writers, Mark and Luke, and written epistles before they wrote the gospels--but yes, Jesus is Lord, and Jesus recruited Paul. (Even John set up shop in Ephesus, which Paul had evangelized, and Matthew expanded Mark's material.)

Jesus only had to deal with a couple of problem disciples (Peter and Judas) in Galilee and Jerusalem, but Paul had hundreds of headaches from Jerusalem to Rome--so cut him some slack! :^)

 

[JaumeJ]

Note: You most likely would never have heard of Jesus if Paul had not spread the Gospel and worked with two of the gospel writers, Mark and Luke, and written epistles before they wrote the gospels--but yes, Jesus is Lord, and Jesus recruited Paul. (Even John set up shop in Ephesus, which Paul had evangelized, and Matthew expanded Mark's material.)

Jesus only had to deal with a couple of problem disciples (Peter and Judas) in Galilee and Jerusalem, but Paul had hundreds of headaches from Jerusalem to Rome--so cut him some slack! :^)

You did not read my post with understanding.. God bless you, as I wrote Paul is not one of the Twelve, yet he is an apostle by definition.

 

[GWH]

You did not read my post with understanding.. God bless you, as I wrote Paul is not one of the Twelve, yet he is an apostle by definition.

Yes, and the name "Paul" means small or little, which Paul defined as meaning "least" of the apostles (per 1CR 15:9) although he was most important.

 

[Needevidence]

The primary intent in the this thread is to compile a comprehensive survey of the teachings of Paul (TOP) rather than to conduct an exhaustive discussion of each one. It begins by examining the TOP in the book of Acts and then follows the order of the epistles. Some of Paul’s statements seem meant for that historical occasion rather than for the purpose of teaching a doctrinal or moral truth (e.g., ACTS 13:10-11 & 22:1-21), so they are not mentioned. Minimal commentary may be made, hoping that it is helpful.

TOP #1: God chose Israel for the purpose of providing the Savior Jesus, who was crucified but raised from the dead in fulfillment of prophecy, and through whom the good news regarding forgiveness of sins by faith in Him is proclaimed. [ACTS 13:16-39]

'fulfilment of prophecy' - I presume you would be talking about OT - would be helpful insight to quote the important OT passages you allude to?

This I presume would be talking about the same thing - 1 Cor 15:4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures,

 

[GWH]

'fulfilment of prophecy' - I presume you would be talking about OT - would be helpful insight to quote the important OT passages you allude to?

This I presume would be talking about the same thing - 1 Cor 15:4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures,

Okay, I provide these in the Kerygma thread (Lesson 2 on website):

The Old Testament (OT) indicates that God chose the Jewish culture for the purpose of providing Messiah, through whom the world would be blessed or saved (GN 22:18, IS 42:6, 49:6, JL 2:28& 32, MIC 4:2-3, ZPH 3:8-9, ZCH 2:11, 14:9&16).

And this on the Apologetics thread (Lesson 1 on website):

The NT hope for heaven is based on evidence in support of Jesus’ claim to be Messiah/Christ, which includes: the prophecy or foreshadowing of His life (in various OT scriptures, including IS 53 and PS 22, and by the sacrificial system), the purpose of His death (as explained in the NT, such as HB 7:18-10:18), and the probability or credibility of His resurrection (in history as recorded by the last chapters of the Gospels and RM 1:3-4).

Re 1CR 15:4: Yes, that is akin to Acts 13:16-39, so I will add that verse to TOP #1 (Lesson 4 on website). Thanks!

 

[Needevidence]

Okay, I provide these in the Kerygma thread (Lesson 2 on website):

The Old Testament (OT) indicates that God chose the Jewish culture for the purpose of providing Messiah, through whom the world would be blessed or saved (GN 22:18, IS 42:6, 49:6, JL 2:28& 32, MIC 4:2-3, ZPH 3:8-9, ZCH 2:11, 14:9&16).

And this on the Apologetics thread (Lesson 1 on website):

The NT hope for heaven is based on evidence in support of Jesus’ claim to be Messiah/Christ, which includes: the prophecy or foreshadowing of His life (in various OT scriptures, including IS 53 and PS 22, and by the sacrificial system), the purpose of His death (as explained in the NT, such as HB 7:18-10:18), and the probability or credibility of His resurrection (in history as recorded by the last chapters of the Gospels and RM 1:3-4).

Re 1CR 15:4: Yes, that is akin to Acts 13:16-39, so I will add that verse to TOP #1 (Lesson 4 on website). Thanks!

I’ve tried to look - but not sure I found the right post - yes Jesus from lineage Abraham, David etc... How would you counter an argument raised that there is no Hebrew word ‘pierce’ as ‘Kaari’ means ‘like a lion’ hence translate as - Ps 22:16 "For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have enclosed me: like a lion my hands and my feet."

 

[GWH]

I’ve tried to look - but not sure I found the right post - yes Jesus from lineage Abraham, David etc... How would you counter an argument raised that there is no Hebrew word ‘pierce’ as ‘Kaari’ means ‘like a lion’ hence translate as - Ps 22:16 "For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have enclosed me: like a lion my hands and my feet."

I would counter that "pierce", piercing meat, being pierced by a sword, etc. was common in Hebrew culture, so there must be a word for it and translators need to look harder. (I mean, lions don't bind/wash/admire/ignore (etc.) hands and feet! :^)

 

[Needevidence]

I would counter that "pierce", piercing meat, being pierced by a sword, etc. was common in Hebrew culture, so there must be a word for it and translators need to look harder. (I mean, lions don't bind/wash/admire/ignore (etc.) hands and feet! :^)

Yes arguable - but the same word is translated as 'lion' in other passages –

Isaiah 38: 13 I reckoned till morning, that, as a lion, so will he break all my bones: from day even to night wilt thou make an end of me.

Psalms 22:21 reads
Save me from the mouth of the lion! You have rescued me from the horns of the wild oxen!

 

[GWH]

Yes arguable - but the same word is translated as 'lion' in other passages –

Isaiah 38: 13 I reckoned till morning, that, as a lion, so will he break all my bones: from day even to night wilt thou make an end of me.

Psalms 22:21 reads
Save me from the mouth of the lion! You have rescued me from the horns of the wild oxen!

English has many words that have more than one meaning, so I bet Hebrew does also.

 

[Needevidence]

English has many words that have more than one meaning, so I bet Hebrew does also.

Not sure about that and I rather not just guess, these things are too important - but please let me know if you find one!

 

[GWH]

Not sure about that and I rather not just guess, these things are too important - but please let me know if you find one!

Okay. MT Like a lion instead of They pierced certainly makes no sense: "Like a lion my hands and feet?"

 

[Needevidence]

Okay. MT Like a lion instead of They pierced certainly makes no sense: "Like a lion my hands and feet?"

Psalm 22:17 (Hebrew text) כִּ֥י סְבָב֗וּנִי כְּלָ֫בִ֥ים עֲדַ֣ת מְ֭רֵעִים הִקִּיפ֑וּנִי כָּ֝אֲרִ֗י יָדַ֥י וְרַגְלָֽי׃

Masoretic Text כָּ֝אֲרִ֗י kā-’ă-rî,

P22:17 17 For dogs have encompassed me; a company of evil-doers have inclosed me; like a lion, they are at my hands and my feet.

 

[GWH]

Psalm 22:17 (Hebrew text) כִּ֥י סְבָב֗וּנִי כְּלָ֫בִ֥ים עֲדַ֣ת מְ֭רֵעִים הִקִּיפ֑וּנִי כָּ֝אֲרִ֗י יָדַ֥י וְרַגְלָֽי׃

Masoretic Text כָּ֝אֲרִ֗י kā-’ă-rî,

P22:17 17 For dogs have encompassed me; a company of evil-doers have inclosed me; like a lion, they are at my hands and my feet.

Thanks but it still doesn’t make much sense to me.

 

[GWH]

TOP #66: Governments or rulers that are not tyrannical toward rightdoers are ordained by God to punish wrongdoers and should be obeyed. [RM 13:1-5, TIT 3:1] Those who stop reading the Romans passage at verse two might misinterpret what it means. The reason for obedience should not only be fear of punishment but also because it is morally right.

TOP #67: Pay taxes to support good governors. [RM 13:6-7] Jesus taught this in MT 22:18-21.

TOP #68: God’s moral laws may be summed up by the command to love one another. [RM 13:8-10] Jesus taught in MT 22:37-38 that the greatest or primary commandment is to love God as Lord. TOP #138 calls its manifestations the fruit of the Spirit.

TOP #69: Stop sinning and become like Jesus. [RM 13:12-14] This TOP is equivalent to #68, which underlie other variations on this theme, such as #57-67.

TOP #70: Do not judge believers on the basis of secondary disputable doctrines. [RM 14:1-12] An example is whether or not it is right to eat meat. Another is whether the Sabbath is more holy than other days of the week (cf. CL 2:16). This TOP is akin to #204.

Continuing:

TOP #71: Try not to offend the moral views or conscience of a fellow believer. [RM 14:13-15:3]

TOP #72: Scripture was written to teach us to persevere in the hope of salvation. [RM 15:4-5a] Paul states this truth more fully in 2TM 3:14-17.

TOP #73: May God give believers a spirit of unity. [RM 15:5b-7] The opposite spirit of divisiveness is demonic and condemned in 16:17-18 and TIT 3:9-11. Jesus prayed for oneness in JN 17:20-23.

TOP #74: Gentiles are included in God’s plan of salvation. [RM 15:8-12] This truth has been alluded to in TOP #9 & 23, and it is called a mystery in 16:25 (elaborated in Ephesians 2).

TOP #75: Saving faith is akin to hope provided by the Holy Spirit. [RM 15:13] God’s requirement for salvation is faith/hope rather than sight or assurance (per 2CR 5:7), because miracles such as Paul’s experience with Christ on the road to Damascus (ACTS 9:1-9) are not normative.

 

[Sipsey]

Yes arguable - but the same word is translated as 'lion' in other passages –

Isaiah 38: 13 I reckoned till morning, that, as a lion, so will he break all my bones: from day even to night wilt thou make an end of me.

Psalms 22:21 reads
Save me from the mouth of the lion! You have rescued me from the horns of the wild oxen!

738. אֲרִי 'ariy, אַרְיֵה 'aryēh: I. A masculine noun meaning lion. The word refers to an animal (Jdg 14:5,18; 1Sa 17:34,36; 2Sa 23:20). Figuratively, it describes Israel's rise to a powerful nation (Nu 23:24; 24:9) and Israel's destroyers Assyria and Babylon (Je 50:17). Jerusalem's kings are depicted as destructive lions (Zep 3:3). The strength of lions was celebrated in songs and poetry (2Sa 1:23; Pr 22:13).

Many times, context determines the nuanced meaning of a translated word. That’s the case for Ps. 22:21-III. A masculine noun depicting one pierced. The word describes the piercing of the psalmist's hands and feet, a prophetic assertion also applied to Christ (Ps 22:16 [17], KJV, NKJV, NASB, NIV).