Is Open Theism Heresy?

[CS1]

No prob with that, He laid it down. So, you can't quite accept He did in fact that emptying?

again, emptying Jesus was stepping out of Glory to become as man. God became man he never stopped being God

 

[CS1]

If John can say that Christians have an anointing and know all things, and that God knows all things, then "knows all things" does not seem to mean what classical omniscience insists it must. To claim that it means something different in one case because it is being applied to God in that case, is special pleading.

I have no issue with the word of God. I may disagree with some persons parsing of the Word of God. I may understand the Word of God to be saying something different from what you see. I can justify my understanding from cthe original languages and context, without question-begging. Those defending classical omniscience tend to question-beg and special-plead in their arguments.

"But we are talking about GOD, not someone who holds to open theism" is special pleading

John did not say we can know all things that is not true. John said in chapter 14 that the Spirit would lead us into all truth in Christ. He would bring to our remembrance all Jesus said it is in the context of God's word we will know.

The Holy Spirit will not speak of Himself, but of Me, Jesus said.

 

[posthuman]

No weaknesses? Your denying Him of the fact of his weaknesses if you maintain He had none, for some of them are declared openly, ''but emptied Himself, having taken the form of a servant, having been made in the likeness of men.''(2Cr 12:9) How is the strength to do that NOT ''made perfect'' in that weakness. Not to mention that it is His own doing to ''search the hearts'' Your 'know all things' (1John 3:20) is therefore subject to just such an action.

meekness isn't weakness.

 

[John146]

Repentance was always an option. Don't take my word for it. Take Jonah's word for it. He knew it, and that is why he initially fled from God's call.

Jon 4:1
But it displeased Jonah exceedingly, and he was very angry.
Jon 4:2
And he prayed unto the LORD, and said, I pray thee, O LORD, was not this my saying, when I was yet in my country? Therefore I fled before unto Tarshish: for I knew that thou art a gracious God, and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repentest thee of the evil.

Jonah knew that if he went and preached destruction, there would be a chance the people would believe God. And if they believed God, they would cry out and repent. “Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not?”

Jonah knew that if Nineveh repented, God would repent and not destroy them because he is gracious and merciful.

 

[keepingthingsreal]

Non-sequitur.

It is not a non-sequitur at all. You basically said that God knows certain things some days, but not all days, so my question and comment were spot on.

Anyhow, you can continue arguing against God's foreknowledge all that you want to. The irony here is that God foreknew that you would. Whatever floats (sinks) your boat.

 

[CS1]

Jonah knew that if he went and preached destruction, there would be a chance the people would believe God. And if they believed God, they would cry out and repent. “Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not?”

Jonah knew that if Nineveh repented, God would repent and not destroy them because he is gracious and merciful.

Hey, who sent him? And if Jobah knew they would repent and believed they should be destroyed and not deserving of repentance, why did God make him do it? If God did not know, they would repent.

 

[PaulThomson]

Those early verses pertain to the Son. I was talking about God the Father. Go ahead. List some of his weaknesses.

God says that the weakness of God is stronger than the strength of man.

1Co 1:25
Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

God is self-aware and humble enough to acknowledge He has weaknesses and to recognises His own weaknesses. That God does this does not mean He cannot be the ever-existing Creator. "God" does not mean "the omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient One." "God" means "the most powerful, most wise, ever-existing Creator". His exact attributes and abilities are probably beyond our ability to define.

 

[PaulThomson]

It is not a non-sequitur at all. You basically said that God knows certain things some days, but not all days, so my question and comment were spot on.

Anyhow, you can continue arguing against God's foreknowledge all that you want to. The irony here is that God foreknew that you would. Whatever floats (sinks) your boat.

That's not what I said at all. I said that the words used by God do not need to include a complete knowledge of the distant future.

 

[John146]

Hey, who sent him? And if Jobah knew they would repent and believed they should be destroyed and not deserving of repentance, why did God make him do it? If God did not know, they would repent.

All in light of Genesis 3:15. There’s a lot to explain. Nineveh was Israel’s enemy and set out for violence. Satan was seeking to devour the seed. God was going to step in and defend the seed line of Christ. When Nineveh repented of their violence, God repented. He did not need to destroy them.

 

[posthuman]

God says that the weakness of God is stronger than the strength of man.

1Co 1:25
Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

God is self-aware and humble enough to acknowledge He has weaknesses and to recognises His own weaknesses. That God does this does not mean He cannot be the ever-existing Creator. "God" does not mean "the omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient One." "God" means "the most powerful, most wise, ever-existing Creator". His exact attributes and abilities are probably beyond our ability to define.

Psalms 18:30​

As for God, His way is perfect​

i notice that this does not say, 'imperfect'

 

[keepingthingsreal]

God says that the weakness of God is stronger than the strength of man.

1Co 1:25
Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

God is self-aware and humble enough to acknowledge He has weaknesses and to recognises His own weaknesses. That God does this does not mean He cannot be the ever-existing Creator. "God" does not mean "the omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient One." "God" means "the most powerful, most wise, ever-existing Creator". His exact attributes and abilities are probably beyond our ability to define.

1Co 1:23
But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
1Co 1:24
But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
1Co 1:25
Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

The weakness here pertains to what Christ accomplished on the cross and how it was perceived by men. This by no means is even suggesting that God the Father has weaknesses.

Anyhow, you need a lot of help, and I hope that you find it through Christ.

 

[Dino246]

But we have what God said. That I trust. Adding to scripture to fit a theology is not good Bible study.

I haven't added anything to Scripture. Interpreting Scripture with a narrow mind and coming to a dumb conclusion is not good Bible study.

 

[Magenta]

I haven't added anything to Scripture. Interpreting Scripture with a narrow mind and coming to a dumb conclusion is not good Bible study.

I kind of had to laugh and think to myself, I ought to save that saying of John's, because it was not that very
long ago when in another thread he was basically equating his opinion with what was actually written.
And then there is the KJ onlyism...

 

[PaulThomson]

"Special pleading" is a logical fallacy that occurs when someone makes an exception to a rule or argument without justifying why that exception is necessary.


FYI, I provided the word of GOD your issue is with that

Essentially, it's when someone argues that a case should be treated differently without offering valid reasons for why it should be, often to defend a position that’s hard to justify.

You may disagree, but one was provided, and Scripture was given. You have not provided any scripture to refute my understanding; therefore, your argument is weak.


For example, if someone says, "I know the rule is that no one can be late, but I should be allowed to be late because I had a bad day," they’re committing special pleading

sounds like your argument


You are trying to make an exception for yourself without offering a logical reason why Open Theism should be treated differently from what the text provides in Jonah

In short, you are applying double standards without proper justification.

What you wrote was:
CS1 said:
"But we are talking about GOD, not someone who holds to open theism. In the Divine Nature of God, he is omniscience
the context to this Attribute is Omni" means "all" and "science" refers to knowledge, so "omniscience" literally translates to "all-knowing."

Fully and completely without Limitations. Human rationality cannot demolish GOD nature."

Of that post you say.
"You may disagree, but one was provided, and Scripture was given. You have not provided any scripture to refute my understanding; therefore, your argument is weak."

But you gave no scripture in that previous post. Which scripture and post are you alluding to?

"An exception should be made for God because He is God and not human" is not a justified exception.

 

[PaulThomson]

1Co 1:23
But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
1Co 1:24
But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
1Co 1:25
Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

The weakness here pertains to what Christ accomplished on the cross and how it was perceived by men. This by no means is even suggesting that God the Father has weaknesses.

Anyhow, you need a lot of help, and I hope that you find it through Christ.

I agree the context points to the gospel as being God's foolishness in human reckoning. And submitting to crucifixion as being God's weakness in human reckoning.

 

[Believer08]

@PaulThomson, did you put me on your ignore list?

 

[Adstar]

It might help people here to answer this question if you first provide a good working definition of what open theism is.

Yep this point is a good one..

 

[Believer08]

Yep this point is a good one..

It might be, but it also might be that not all open theists share the same definition.

 

[Adstar]

It might be, but it also might be that not all open theists share the same definition.

And that's the main reason why you want to get the questioner to define what they believe Open Theism is.. That way you can then start responding to and dealing with their particular definition.. If other people want to introduce other definitions of Open Theism then they are free to do so... Some times a clear definition that everyone agrees upon cannot be reached.. A good example of that is in the recent discussion on this site about 'Free Will" We could not come to an agreed definition of what free will is in that thread.. But at lest we knew we where dealing with a lack of consensus on the topic..

 

[Believer08]

And that's the main reason why you want to get the questioner to define what they believe Open Theism is.. That way you can then start responding to and dealing with their particular definition.. If other people want to introduce other definitions of Open Theism then they are free to do so... Some times a clear definition that everyone agrees upon cannot be reached.. A good example of that is in the recent discussion on this site about 'Free Will" We could not come to an agreed definition of what free will is in that thread.. But at lest we knew we where dealing with a lack of consensus on the topic..

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