The Holy Spirit and Salvation !

[brightfame52]

Jn 16:7

7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

The word expedient also conveys the meaning of [appropriate for a purpose]. The Lord Jesus Christ is giving His disciples [The Church] to know the importance of the need of the comforter, which is the Holy Spirit, to come and to assist in their commission of evangelism, not only would He aid them, but He is needed for the gathering in of the rest of the Church, the people Christ died for.

The Holy Spirit was responsible to apply the saving benefits to all Christ died for, the Church, His Body. He came to regenerate all of God's elect as it was according to The Everlasting Covenant of which Christ is the Surety.

Isa 59:21

As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever.

The coming of the Spirit to regenerate is a covenant promise [Ezk 36:26-27] and blood purchased, He works by means of the Father and the Son [Jn 14:26], as this is realized we give Glory To God Triune for the Salvation of a sinner, and Thank Them for the saving Operations of the Spirit.

The Holy Spirit works from the Father's decree 2 Thess 2:13

13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

And the Son's redemption Gal 4:5

To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

Rom 8:15

For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

And so He is sent to make effective what was counseled in the Everlasting Covenant for the experimental salvation of God's people that Christ died for.

To all the Father elected, all whom Christ died, the Spirit is given to them as the Spirit of promise. The Holy Spirit is the bond of union between the elect members and Christ their Head, He unites us to Christ experimentally because we have the Same Spirit He has, that is the Holy Spirit in the Head is in the members, so He works like effects for the same, if He quickens the Head as here:

Rom 8:11

But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

1 Pet 3:18

For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

He will also quicken the Members..

Thats why each dead spiritually elect or chosen in Christ Eph 1:4 will be quickened while dead in trespasses and sins Eph 2:1,4,5

1And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

4But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved )

This is a work of the Spirit in Salvation, why it was expedient that Christ go away that He may come and begin His Saving, quickening Ministry, at this time He would mostly work in behalf of the apostles to prepare the elect to receive their word..

 

[brightfame52]

Faith is a Fruit of the Spirit !


Gal 5:22

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

And this word Faith is also Faithfulness, so those born of Him persevere, remain faithful in the Faith see Heb 10:39

Now the Holy Spirit imparts Faith to the Covenant Heirs. Yes Faith is essential to salvation, the bible makes that clear, but the error of today is that its a condition for getting saved. It must be understood that Christ redemptive work purchased, bought the workings of the Holy Spirit for all those He died for and redeemed by His blood.

Christ death accomplished more than just satisfying God's Legal demands against the elect, leaving them to perform Faith and Repentance [both spiritual acts]. Christ also must purchase [in His redemption] these blessings for them, because the Natural Man [dead in sin and a slave to sin] is completely void of these Godly Graces. That Faith is in the order of salvation is seen in such verses as Eph 2:8; Acts 16:31; and Rom 1:16, for God gives Faith in the effecting of subjective salvation 2 Thess 2:13


13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Believing, Faith is a fruit of the sanctifying work of the Spirit. But again, the fatal error in religion today is saying that faith or believing is a condition for salvation we must meet, for every condition for bestowing salvation on the chosen has been met by Christ and through Him by The Spirit.

 

[GWH]

Faith is a Fruit of the Spirit !


Gal 5:22

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

And this word Faith is also Faithfulness, so those born of Him persevere, remain faithful in the Faith see Heb 10:39

Now the Holy Spirit imparts Faith to the Covenant Heirs. Yes Faith is essential to salvation, the bible makes that clear, but the error of today is that its a condition for getting saved. It must be understood that Christ redemptive work purchased, bought the workings of the Holy Spirit for all those He died for and redeemed by His blood.

Christ death accomplished more than just satisfying God's Legal demands against the elect, leaving them to perform Faith and Repentance [both spiritual acts]. Christ also must purchase [in His redemption] these blessings for them, because the Natural Man [dead in sin and a slave to sin] is completely void of these Godly Graces. That Faith is in the order of salvation is seen in such verses as Eph 2:8; Acts 16:31; and Rom 1:16, for God gives Faith in the effecting of subjective salvation 2 Thess 2:13


13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Believing, Faith is a fruit of the sanctifying work of the Spirit. But again, the fatal error in religion today is saying that faith or believing is a condition for salvation we must meet, for every condition for bestowing salvation on the chosen has been met by Christ and through Him by The Spirit.

I believe your error is failure to realize the following:

The Gospel kerygma or GRFS can be stated in various ways, which may cause confusion. Some statements (e.g. ACTS 16:31, quoted previously, & EPH 2:8-9) are in terms of believing right, and others (e.g. MT 7:21, “only he who does the will of my Father will enter heaven”, cf. GL 6:7-9 & EPH 2:10) are in terms of behaving right. This prompts the question: Is salvation obtained by believing God’s words or by doing God’s works? The answer is indicated by John 6:29: “The work of God is to believe in the one [Messiah/Christ] He has sent.” As Jesus stated (in JN 14:6): “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”

The mind of Jesus is truth incarnate (JN 1:14), and all truth manifests the Spirit of Christ or God (1JN 5:6). The work of God (GRFS) is to seek and believe the truth, and part of the truth is that no one comes to know God as Father except through faith in God’s truth embodied as God the Son. If a moralist truthseeker (on the basis of general revelation) is taught about God (perhaps via the OT or Qur’an), then he/she may choose to believe in God or become a theist. If theists are taught the Gospel (NT), then they may choose to believe/accept Jesus as Christ. In both cases salvation is a gift from God received by faith “from first to last” (RM 1:17).

I refer to teachings that are secondary or subsequent to learning GRFS by another Greek word, didache, which means teaching. The didache may be very important and requisite for becoming spiritually mature, but it is not most important or necessary to know/believe in order to be saved. The distinction between kerygma/saving faith and didache/working faith was made by Jesus when He commissioned His original twelve disciples minus Judas (MT 28:19-20). This “Great Commission” speaks of both types of information. The kerygma is indicated by verse 19, in which Jesus says, “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations”.

A Christian disciple is a learner or one who believes the good news about God’s offer of eternal life to all who accept Jesus as Christ, the Lord incarnate. The didache is implicit in verse 20, in which Jesus continues by saying “teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.” This speaks of the information a disciple needs to know and believe after conversion in order to grow in Christ-likeness regarding how to live the law of love. It is the “all truth” that is taught by the Spirit referred to in John 16:13. Again, it is very important but not necessary for salvation. Witness the thief on the cross in Luke 23:39-43, who had no opportunity to learn the didache after his conversion; although, like Paul (according to Acts 22:3) and most adults, some didachaic truth is learned prior to knowing the kerygma.

The distinction between kerygma and didache can be seen also in 2 Timothy 3:15-17. The scriptures “which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus” refers to the Gospel or kerygma. The scriptural teaching that is useful for “training in righteousness, so that the man [or woman per GL 3:28] of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work” refers to the didache. The apostle Paul also employs the difference between kerygma and didache in 1 Corinthians 3:10-15. The “foundation… which is Jesus Christ” is the kerygmatic teaching regarding salvation. Paul alludes to the didache when he says that one should be careful how he/she builds upon this foundation.

The distinction between kerygma and didache involves a difference in content and purpose. The kerygma proclaims GRFS, which calls for repentance and acceptance of Jesus as Lord, which is an all or nothing decision that occurs at one moment in time (the begining of sanctification). The didache teaches God’s will regarding how those who have been saved should live in order to be a good witness for Christ, which involves learning more of God’s Word throughout one’s lifetime (the process of sanctification). A passage teaching this truth is Colossians 2:6-7: “Just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord [kerygma], continue to live in him, rooted and built up in him, strengthened in the faith as you were taught [didache].”

 

[brightfame52]

I believe your error is failure to realize the following:

The Gospel kerygma or GRFS can be stated in various ways, which may cause confusion. Some statements (e.g. ACTS 16:31, quoted previously, & EPH 2:8-9) are in terms of believing right, and others (e.g. MT 7:21, “only he who does the will of my Father will enter heaven”, cf. GL 6:7-9 & EPH 2:10) are in terms of behaving right. This prompts the question: Is salvation obtained by believing God’s words or by doing God’s works? The answer is indicated by John 6:29: “The work of God is to believe in the one [Messiah/Christ] He has sent.” As Jesus stated (in JN 14:6): “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”

The mind of Jesus is truth incarnate (JN 1:14), and all truth manifests the Spirit of Christ or God (1JN 5:6). The work of God (GRFS) is to seek and believe the truth, and part of the truth is that no one comes to know God as Father except through faith in God’s truth embodied as God the Son. If a moralist truthseeker (on the basis of general revelation) is taught about God (perhaps via the OT or Qur’an), then he/she may choose to believe in God or become a theist. If theists are taught the Gospel (NT), then they may choose to believe/accept Jesus as Christ. In both cases salvation is a gift from God received by faith “from first to last” (RM 1:17).

I refer to teachings that are secondary or subsequent to learning GRFS by another Greek word, didache, which means teaching. The didache may be very important and requisite for becoming spiritually mature, but it is not most important or necessary to know/believe in order to be saved. The distinction between kerygma/saving faith and didache/working faith was made by Jesus when He commissioned His original twelve disciples minus Judas (MT 28:19-20). This “Great Commission” speaks of both types of information. The kerygma is indicated by verse 19, in which Jesus says, “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations”.

A Christian disciple is a learner or one who believes the good news about God’s offer of eternal life to all who accept Jesus as Christ, the Lord incarnate. The didache is implicit in verse 20, in which Jesus continues by saying “teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.” This speaks of the information a disciple needs to know and believe after conversion in order to grow in Christ-likeness regarding how to live the law of love. It is the “all truth” that is taught by the Spirit referred to in John 16:13. Again, it is very important but not necessary for salvation. Witness the thief on the cross in Luke 23:39-43, who had no opportunity to learn the didache after his conversion; although, like Paul (according to Acts 22:3) and most adults, some didachaic truth is learned prior to knowing the kerygma.

The distinction between kerygma and didache can be seen also in 2 Timothy 3:15-17. The scriptures “which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus” refers to the Gospel or kerygma. The scriptural teaching that is useful for “training in righteousness, so that the man [or woman per GL 3:28] of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work” refers to the didache. The apostle Paul also employs the difference between kerygma and didache in 1 Corinthians 3:10-15. The “foundation… which is Jesus Christ” is the kerygmatic teaching regarding salvation. Paul alludes to the didache when he says that one should be careful how he/she builds upon this foundation.

The distinction between kerygma and didache involves a difference in content and purpose. The kerygma proclaims GRFS, which calls for repentance and acceptance of Jesus as Lord, which is an all or nothing decision that occurs at one moment in time (the begining of sanctification). The didache teaches God’s will regarding how those who have been saved should live in order to be a good witness for Christ, which involves learning more of God’s Word throughout one’s lifetime (the process of sanctification). A passage teaching this truth is Colossians 2:6-7: “Just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord [kerygma], continue to live in him, rooted and built up in him, strengthened in the faith as you were taught [didache].”

You all over the place making no sense to me

 

[Jimbone]

I believe your error is failure to realize the following:

The Gospel kerygma or GRFS can be stated in various ways, which may cause confusion. Some statements (e.g. ACTS 16:31, quoted previously, & EPH 2:8-9) are in terms of believing right, and others (e.g. MT 7:21, “only he who does the will of my Father will enter heaven”, cf. GL 6:7-9 & EPH 2:10) are in terms of behaving right. This prompts the question: Is salvation obtained by believing God’s words or by doing God’s works? The answer is indicated by John 6:29: “The work of God is to believe in the one [Messiah/Christ] He has sent.” As Jesus stated (in JN 14:6): “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”

The mind of Jesus is truth incarnate (JN 1:14), and all truth manifests the Spirit of Christ or God (1JN 5:6). The work of God (GRFS) is to seek and believe the truth, and part of the truth is that no one comes to know God as Father except through faith in God’s truth embodied as God the Son. If a moralist truthseeker (on the basis of general revelation) is taught about God (perhaps via the OT or Qur’an), then he/she may choose to believe in God or become a theist. If theists are taught the Gospel (NT), then they may choose to believe/accept Jesus as Christ. In both cases salvation is a gift from God received by faith “from first to last” (RM 1:17).

I refer to teachings that are secondary or subsequent to learning GRFS by another Greek word, didache, which means teaching. The didache may be very important and requisite for becoming spiritually mature, but it is not most important or necessary to know/believe in order to be saved. The distinction between kerygma/saving faith and didache/working faith was made by Jesus when He commissioned His original twelve disciples minus Judas (MT 28:19-20). This “Great Commission” speaks of both types of information. The kerygma is indicated by verse 19, in which Jesus says, “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations”.

A Christian disciple is a learner or one who believes the good news about God’s offer of eternal life to all who accept Jesus as Christ, the Lord incarnate. The didache is implicit in verse 20, in which Jesus continues by saying “teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.” This speaks of the information a disciple needs to know and believe after conversion in order to grow in Christ-likeness regarding how to live the law of love. It is the “all truth” that is taught by the Spirit referred to in John 16:13. Again, it is very important but not necessary for salvation. Witness the thief on the cross in Luke 23:39-43, who had no opportunity to learn the didache after his conversion; although, like Paul (according to Acts 22:3) and most adults, some didachaic truth is learned prior to knowing the kerygma.

The distinction between kerygma and didache can be seen also in 2 Timothy 3:15-17. The scriptures “which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus” refers to the Gospel or kerygma. The scriptural teaching that is useful for “training in righteousness, so that the man [or woman per GL 3:28] of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work” refers to the didache. The apostle Paul also employs the difference between kerygma and didache in 1 Corinthians 3:10-15. The “foundation… which is Jesus Christ” is the kerygmatic teaching regarding salvation. Paul alludes to the didache when he says that one should be careful how he/she builds upon this foundation.

The distinction between kerygma and didache involves a difference in content and purpose. The kerygma proclaims GRFS, which calls for repentance and acceptance of Jesus as Lord, which is an all or nothing decision that occurs at one moment in time (the begining of sanctification). The didache teaches God’s will regarding how those who have been saved should live in order to be a good witness for Christ, which involves learning more of God’s Word throughout one’s lifetime (the process of sanctification). A passage teaching this truth is Colossians 2:6-7: “Just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord [kerygma], continue to live in him, rooted and built up in him, strengthened in the faith as you were taught [didache].”

To be honest all I could make of this was that you don't believe His Spirit plays a role and studying the word is the only real way to be guided? I'm not 100% sure this is what you meant because of the way you write and present it, but I can tell you you're error is sidestepping God for faith in your own understanding. When we are born again our "real life" spirit is resurrected for the first time. From birth we have a dead spirit, when God grants us repentance and through Jesus taking our punishment, the full weight of Gods righteous wrath against sin was poured on His head, so that God could not only justly forgive these sins, but also apply, by His grace, Jesus righteousness to us, making us a clean temple His Spirit could now live in, now reconciled to ours. All by His grace, all by His power, all for His glory. Amen. This is an actual real thing that takes place on earth, for real. This is the only way we can be pleasing to God and how no matter how "good" the work the lost do is, it's still like filthy rags to God. To make little of the role and power of His Spirit makes no sense to those of us who do KNOW it.
Have I misunderstood your point? Do you understand what I'm saying here? (look I'm not trying to be insulting here, but I'd really appreciate it if you could just answer me like I'm dumb. Like this comment I'm replying to is hard for me to follow. I'm not even sure my reply deals with what you were actually saying so if you could just be clear, straight forward, and direct it would be helpful to me)

 

[GWH]

You all over the place making no sense to me

Sorry. Let us try taking what I said one paragraph at a time, beginning with:

The Gospel kerygma or GRFS can be stated in various ways, which may cause confusion.
Some statements (e.g. ACTS 16:31, quoted previously, & EPH 2:8-9) are in terms of believing right, and
others (e.g. MT 7:21, “only he who does the will of my Father will enter heaven”, cf. GL 6:7-9 & EPH 2:10) are in terms of behaving right.

This prompts the question: Is salvation obtained by believing God’s words or by doing God’s works?
The answer is indicated by John 6:29: “The work of God is to believe in the one [Messiah/Christ] He has sent.”
As Jesus stated (in JN 14:6): “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”

 

[GWH]

To be honest all I could make of this was that you don't believe His Spirit plays a role and studying the word is the only real way to be guided? I'm not 100% sure this is what you meant because of the way you write and present it, but I can tell you you're error is sidestepping God for faith in your own understanding. When we are born again our "real life" spirit is resurrected for the first time. From birth we have a dead spirit, when God grants us repentance and through Jesus taking our punishment, the full weight of Gods righteous wrath against sin was poured on His head, so that God could not only justly forgive these sins, but also apply, by His grace, Jesus righteousness to us, making us a clean temple His Spirit could now live in, now reconciled to ours. All by His grace, all by His power, all for His glory. Amen. This is an actual real thing that takes place on earth, for real. This is the only way we can be pleasing to God and how no matter how "good" the work the lost do is, it's still like filthy rags to God. To make little of the role and power of His Spirit makes no sense to those of us who do KNOW it.
Have I misunderstood your point? Do you understand what I'm saying here? (look I'm not trying to be insulting here, but I'd really appreciate it if you could just answer me like I'm dumb. Like this comment I'm replying to is hard for me to follow. I'm not even sure my reply deals with what you were actually saying so if you could just be clear, straight forward, and direct it would be helpful to me)

Like I told brightfame, I am sorry that my meaning is unclear. If you want to join us in critiquing what I said one paragraph at a time, please do so. Otherwise, I will respond to your post thusly:

1. I do believe His Spirit plays a role and studying the word is the only real way to be guided. This is why I try not to be sinfully proud that my initials are GW and why I named my son Paul.

2. I admit that my own understanding may have errors, and I continually amend or update my website as I learn. At this time my main study is enumerating the teachings of Paul, which I am posting on that thread.

3. When we are born again, we receive eternal life and the Holy Spirit, although we will still need to experience death and then be resurrected.

4. Yes, Jesus took our punishment and the full weight of God's righteous wrath against sin was poured on His head, so that God could not only justly forgive these sins, but also apply, by His grace, Jesus' righteousness to us. This is called imputed righteousness. Then begins the lifelong process of learning God's word beyond the Gospel so that we may grow spiritually toward the goal of actual righteousness that we will attain in heaven. This is the only way we can be pleasing to God.

5. The lost may imitate "good" work, but it is like filthy rags because they do not glorify the God who is Good and who determines what is good.

6. I hope this helps to clarify your misunderstanding of my points. I really appreciate having constructive conversations with y'all, because I view myself as perhaps the lead learner here on CC.

 

[brightfame52]

Sorry. Let us try taking what I said one paragraph at a time, beginning with:

The Gospel kerygma or GRFS can be stated in various ways, which may cause confusion.
Some statements (e.g. ACTS 16:31, quoted previously, & EPH 2:8-9) are in terms of believing right, and
others (e.g. MT 7:21, “only he who does the will of my Father will enter heaven”, cf. GL 6:7-9 & EPH 2:10) are in terms of behaving right.

This prompts the question: Is salvation obtained by believing God’s words or by doing God’s works?
The answer is indicated by John 6:29: “The work of God is to believe in the one [Messiah/Christ] He has sent.”
As Jesus stated (in JN 14:6): “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”

This thread is about the Holy Spirits role in Salvation

 

[brightfame52]

The Holy Spirit imparts or gives Faith !

Faith is the connection between the soul and Christ, which connection is made by the Holy Spirit by means of regeneration and the effectual call. The various steps of the outworking of God's Eternal Purpose are seen in Rom 8:29-30, with the application of redemption beginning with the effectual call of the Spirit, by which the elect are brought from a state of nature into a state of Grace, or from darkness into light, or is passed from death unto life. The Two biggest falsehoods in religion today regarding salvation by Faith, is to teach that fallen, spiritually dead sinner is capable of it, that it is an act of mans freewill, and this delusion has slayed its millions. A Dead man cannot believe, for to believe in Christ as to salvation is the result and fruit of life having been communicated to the soul, see Jn 6:44; Eph 1:19 which is accomplished by the Holy Ghosts regeneration; It should be noted that Jn 1:12 is explained by Jn 1:13 and Jn 3:15-16 are preceded by Jn 3:3-7, so those being born again to believe 1 Jn 5:1. Another error is separating the Spirits communication of Faith from the direct results of Christ cross work. Why do we believe and walk by Faith? Because we are made righteous by the obedience of one Rom 5:19.

 

[brightfame52]

Jesus told His disciples this Jn 16:7

Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

The Word expedient is the greek word sympherō and means:


to bear or bring together

2) to bear together or at the same time

a) to carry with others

b) to collect or contribute in order to help

c) to help, be profitable, be expedient

Now this profitable or advantage was for them in their evangelistic campaign, as they set out to carry the gospel to all nations. His [The Spirit] companionship was needed for it to be a success and Glorifying to God. He would not only be a blessing to them personally, but would also be a blessing to those to whom they were sent to bring glad tidings, for He was sent to perform conversion work. This was a continuation of the effects and blessings of Christ Finished work of the Cross.

In His [The Spirit] Mission, He would do the following in extending the Kingdom of God in the world Jn 16:8-11

8And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

9Of sin, because they believe not on me;

10Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

11Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

This word reprove it means to:

to convict, refute, confute

generally with a suggestion of shame of the person convicted

to chasten, to punish


Its the same word used in Rev 3:19

19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

Note: If Jesus Christ Loves one, He Chastens ! So if He loved all the World without exception, then He would be obligated to Chasten them, and If He Chastens them, then they must have been Sons according to Heb 12:6, so if this is True, and Christ Loved all men without exception, then all are Sons without exception, which promotes Universalism, which is a lie.

So He [The Spirit] is going to do a effectual work for the World He will be dealing with.

This is His conversion work unto the world of the Elect of God, He will convict them of it of sin, righteousness and judgment.

 

[GWH]

This thread is about the Holy Spirits role in Salvation

Okay, if you don't want to understand via the paragraph by paragraph method, try the way I employed with Jimbone:

1. I do believe His Spirit plays a role and studying the word is the only real way to be guided. This is why I try not to be sinfully proud that my initials are GW and why I named my son Paul.

2. I admit that my own understanding may have errors, and I continually amend or update my website as I learn. At this time my main study is enumerating the teachings of Paul, which I am posting on that thread.

3. When we are born again, we receive eternal life and the Holy Spirit, although we will still need to experience death and then be resurrected.

4. Yes, Jesus took our punishment and the full weight of God's righteous wrath against sin was poured on His head, so that God could not only justly forgive these sins, but also apply, by His grace, Jesus' righteousness to us. This is called imputed righteousness. Then begins the lifelong process of learning God's word beyond the Gospel so that we may grow spiritually toward the goal of actual righteousness that we will attain in heaven. This is the only way we can be pleasing to God.

5. The lost may imitate "good" work, but it is like filthy rags because they do not glorify the God who is Good and who determines what is good.

6. I hope this helps to clarify your misunderstanding of my points. I really appreciate having constructive conversations with y'all, because I view myself as perhaps the lead learner here on CC.

 

[brightfame52]

Now how is it that the Holy Spirit will convince the world of sin ? First of all who is the world here that the Spirit will focus own ? It certainly is not the world that Jesus says this about Jn 17:9

9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

Its that world of them that God hath given Him ! Remember Jn 6:39

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

This is the World of God's redeeming Love Jn 3:16, the world of His Church which He gave Himself for as Eph 5:25

25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

A world comprised of both jew and gentile. Remember to whom Jesus was speaking to at this time, jewish disciples, so Jesus was informing them that the Holy Spirit whom He was sending to further His work of the Cross, would not just be to jews, but to peoples of the gentiles or throughout the world. Yes God had a Chosen People in the heathen nations that He was going to Justify by Faith Gal 3:8

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

So the Holy Spirit was needed in fulfillment of that purpose as well Gal 3:14

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

So its that world that the Holy Spirit is coming to convince them of sin, because they believe not on Him as of yet.

 

[brightfame52]

And when He shall come He shall, not attempt to, but He shall reprove the world,not just jews, but the world of sin, because they believe not on me ! His [The Holy Spirit] work rectifies that problem, it solves it completely.

So what sin is it that the Holy Spirit will convince this world of ? The Sin of unbelief and the opposition to the True Gospel, and their sin of self righteousness, and trusting in their own works and religious efforts [dead works] to make themselves acceptable before God. Many believe that sin here means things like immorality, drunkenness and stealing and etc. Men however do not need convincing of such things, natural conscience will do that Rom 2:14-15


14For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another )

But unbelief because of self righteousness is a sin that mere human conscience does not convince us of its evil nature before God. In fact natural conscience gives us self approbation before God when the very opposite is true. Remember the prayer of the pharisee ? Notice Lk 18:11-14

This pharisee did not realize he was an evil wicked man before God, and nothing short of a Sovereign Work of the Holy Spirit would ever convict this man of sin, his sinfulness before God.

Read Isa 64:6 one version says :

"and all our righteous deeds are like a polluted garment".esv

You see, we men by nature cannot even begin to understand this truth, that our righteous behaviour when commending us to God, is disgusting to Him. Why is this? Because its a slap in the face of God to all what He gave His Son the Lord Jesus Christ to accomplish for the sins of His People, and the righteousness that He alone provides for God's People. Its the Only righteousness known to God that He approves of, and Glorifies Him. It is written of Christ Isa 42:21

21 The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it Honorable. 1

 

[brightfame52]

Of righteousness !

So the Holy Spirits role unto the World of the Elect, for whom Christ died, is to convince that world of sin, mainly the sin of unbelief, because by nature they believe not on Christ, but are self sufficient in their own self righteousness.

Next , 10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

Yes, its all about Christ righteousness before God, thats why He was sent to die for God's People 2 Cor 5:

21For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

You see, by nature, we go about to establish our own righteousness as the jews did Rom 10:

2For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

3For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

You see if men are to attain righteousness by their own efforts, then why should Christ die ? And so thats why the Holy Spirit is come into the world to teach the standards of True righteousness, as Christ had done when He was in the world see Matt 5:17ff.

So when and following the Holy Spirit's work of convincing the elect sinner of their own unrighteousness in themselves, He reveals to them [Through the Gospel Rom 1:17] Christ as their righteousness. You see, they must first however be taught of God their own self righteousness which is implied here Jn 6:

45It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

Note: The Spirit's work can also be The learning of the Father, since the Father is First cause, and He [The Spirit] is sent by the Father in the Name of the Son Jn 14:26.

Now , The Gospel Truths of Christ being made sin for us, a elect people, in order that the righteousness of God we be made in Him. This Gospel comes to us in Power, revealing the righteousness of God to us Rom 1:


16For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Notice that this righteousness is revealed. The greek word is apokalyptō which means:


to uncover, lay open what has been veiled or covered up

a) disclose, make bare

2) to make known, make manifest, disclose what before was unknown

A righteousness that we did not know we had is disclosed to us through the Gospel, its made known by the Power of the Holy Spirit.

Its the same word paul uses in 1 Cor 2 :7,10

7 But we speak [Preach] the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

So its the Spirit that reveals this Righteousness we have because of Christ, of which we knew nothing of, if we are of the elect So its a revealing, something that has to be made known.

When Jesus said of the Spirit, that He shall Glorify Me Jn 16:14

14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.


He takes of Christ righteousness, which He worked out for His People, and shews [Make it known] to them..

And Christ is Glorified When once a self righteous sinner, trusting in their own efforts and works, is now caused to rest in His righteousness for them.

Now understand what's happened here, the sinner has been shown that Christ has already been made their righteousness, and their Faith, which is by the Grace of the Holy Spirit, receives and rests and Trust in the gospel of their salvation see Eph 1:13, but they Trust in what has been revealed, so Faith or believing is not the cause of this righteousness, but Faith reveals that it [righteousness] is ours and effects the believing or the Trusting..

Hence Paul says as well as all True believers Phil 3:9

9And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Thank the Blessed Spirit for making this Righteousness known to God's Elect

 

[GWH]

Of righteousness !

So the Holy Spirits role unto the World of the Elect, for whom Christ died, is to convince that world of sin, mainly the sin of unbelief, because by nature they believe not on Christ, but are self sufficient in their own self righteousness.

Next , 10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

Yes, its all about Christ righteousness before God, thats why He was sent to die for God's People 2 Cor 5:

21For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

You see, by nature, we go about to establish our own righteousness as the jews did Rom 10:

2For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

3For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

You see if men are to attain righteousness by their own efforts, then why should Christ die ? And so thats why the Holy Spirit is come into the world to teach the standards of True righteousness, as Christ had done when He was in the world see Matt 5:17ff.

So when and following the Holy Spirit's work of convincing the elect sinner of their own unrighteousness in themselves, He reveals to them [Through the Gospel Rom 1:17] Christ as their righteousness. You see, they must first however be taught of God their own self righteousness which is implied here Jn 6:

45It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

Note: The Spirit's work can also be The learning of the Father, since the Father is First cause, and He [The Spirit] is sent by the Father in the Name of the Son Jn 14:26.

Now , The Gospel Truths of Christ being made sin for us, a elect people, in order that the righteousness of God we be made in Him. This Gospel comes to us in Power, revealing the righteousness of God to us Rom 1:


16For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Notice that this righteousness is revealed. The greek word is apokalyptō which means:


to uncover, lay open what has been veiled or covered up

a) disclose, make bare

2) to make known, make manifest, disclose what before was unknown

A righteousness that we did not know we had is disclosed to us through the Gospel, its made known by the Power of the Holy Spirit.

Its the same word paul uses in 1 Cor 2 :7,10

7 But we speak [Preach] the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

So its the Spirit that reveals this Righteousness we have because of Christ, of which we knew nothing of, if we are of the elect So its a revealing, something that has to be made known.

When Jesus said of the Spirit, that He shall Glorify Me Jn 16:14

14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.


He takes of Christ righteousness, which He worked out for His People, and shews [Make it known] to them..

And Christ is Glorified When once a self righteous sinner, trusting in their own efforts and works, is now caused to rest in His righteousness for them.

Now understand what's happened here, the sinner has been shown that Christ has already been made their righteousness, and their Faith, which is by the Grace of the Holy Spirit, receives and rests and Trust in the gospel of their salvation see Eph 1:13, but they Trust in what has been revealed, so Faith or believing is not the cause of this righteousness, but Faith reveals that it [righteousness] is ours and effects the believing or the Trusting..

Hence Paul says as well as all True believers Phil 3:9

9And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Thank the Blessed Spirit for making this Righteousness known to God's Elect

I agree with what you have posted, but I just want to add that I understand communicating is tricky, so that it is difficult to state a whole truth and nothing but the truth in one succinct post--or even in a few long ones!

And this is true of Scripture, which treats topics piecemeal: some here, some there, but I try to bypass as much verbiage as possible regarding the topic of election and sovereignty by saying that the crucial choice regarding what to believe about free will is between universalism and blasphemy (attributing unrighteous hate to God). I err on the side of believing GW teaches that God is omniloving (1TM2:3-4, JN 3:16, etc.), but souls may reject rather than reflect His love/grace.

IOW, Jesus, Paul and John define divine righteousness most succinctly as love for all (MT 5:44&48, 22:37-40, 1TM 2:3-4, 1JN 4:8).

 

[brightfame52]

I agree with what you have posted, but I just want to add that I understand communicating is tricky, so that it is difficult to state a whole truth and nothing but the truth in one succinct post--or even in a few long ones!

And this is true of Scripture, which treats topics piecemeal: some here, some there, but I try to bypass as much verbiage as possible regarding the topic of election and sovereignty by saying that the crucial choice regarding what to believe about free will is between universalism and blasphemy (attributing unrighteous hate to God). I err on the side of believing GW teaches that God is omniloving (1TM2:3-4, JN 3:16, etc.), but souls may reject rather than reflect His love/grace.

IOW, Jesus, Paul and John define divine righteousness most succinctly as love for all (MT 5:44&48, 22:37-40, 1TM 2:3-4, 1JN 4:8).

You lost me, so what do you understand me saying in the post ?

 

[brightfame52]

Of Judgment !

Jn 16:8-10

8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;

10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

What is it the Holy Spirit in Salvation applied teaches the redeemed church of Judgment, because of the Prince of this world, who is satan is judged.

Satan the god of this world was Judged and defeated at the Cross, Christ destroyed him who had the power of death Heb 2:14

14Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

This was His Judgment, and the tyranny he held over the gentile world in regards to the True God was rendered inoperative by the Cross. Thats why it says He shall bring Judgment to the Gentiles. Isa 42:1

Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

Repeated here Matt 12:18

Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.

The Knowledge of salvation being now revealed to the Gentile world is an effect of satan being Judged and defeated at the cross. Satan was also bound for a thousand years, again, so that he couldn't as he once did, deceive the nations, or the gentiles Rev 20:3

And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

This knowledge was especially needed for the first true ministers of the gospel, the Twelve as they were to go into the nations and disciple Christ Sheep. Now knowing that the Spirit has come, satan Judged, they could expect success in the gentile world with the Gospel of Christ.

 

[brightfame52]

St Jn 16:8-10

When the Holy Ghost comes to the elect sinner, that sinner having had been redeemed[purchased] by the blood of Christ, He comes in Power[1 Thess 1:5] and convinces that one or ones of all that Christ has accomplished by His Faithful obedience to the Cross Phil 2:8

8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

as our surety. When He [The Holy Spirit] reveals Christ in us [ St Jn 16:14] we are taught of God [ Jn 6:45], that our sins have been sufficiently dealt with Ps 103:10,12

10 He hath not dealt with us after our sins; nor rewarded us according to our iniquities.

12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us. Note: This is Covenant Knowledge.

That Righteousness has been everlastingly established by Christ obedience Dan 9:24


24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

And that Judgment or Justice has been appeased by Christ blood, and Satan has been Judged, that his head has been bruised.

 

[brightfame52]

The Holy Spirit reveals to us our Salvation !

People do not realize it today, but being saved is matter of it being revealed to us. Its nothing that we do to get saved, but what God through Christ has done to His People, and this is and or will be revealed [testified] unto to all the Heirs of Salvation in God's due time by the work of the Holy Spirit.

Paul writes to the Corinthians 1 Cor 2:7-12

7But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery [The Gospel], even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

This word prepared, is the same word Jesus uses in Matt 25:34

34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

God the Holy Spirit reveals unto the Heirs of the Kingdom, that they have been Chosen in Christ from the foundation to be recipients of this Blessed Kingdom ! God sends them this Revelation by the Gospel of the Kingdom. Thats what Paul is saying here to the Corinthians.

10But God hath revealed[made known] them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

The Spirit makes it known to us our Salvation in Christ, our being Joint Heirs with Him Rom 8:16-17

11For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

12Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

Which things the Gospel reveals, God gives us of His Spirit first [New Birth] in order that we might Know the things [ Forgiveness, Redemption, Justification, Righteousness and etc] freely given [not offered] to us [The called] of God !

I do not believe there is a more clearer statement that declares New Birth before Faith.

Paul writes to Timothy in 1 Tim 2:4-6

4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

6Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

The All here for whom Christ gave Himself a ransom for, will have it Testified unto them by the Spirit of God 1 Cor 2

The word Testified is the greek word martyrion and means:

testimony

Its the Testimony of God 1 Cor 2:1

1And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.

Its the Testimony of the Gospel 2 Tim 1:8

8Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;

This Testimony is confirmed in the called of Christ 1 Cor 1:6

6Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:

This is the Work of the Holy Spirit to confirm in each Heir of Salvation, Gods witness to them through the Gospel that they have been given the Kingdom Matt 25:34, He reveals it to them, makes it known, and Hence, thats having our Salvation revealed unto us, otherwise we would not have known, and there was nothing in and of ourselves we could have done to inherit the Eternal Kingdom.

 

[GWH]

You lost me, so what do you understand me saying in the post ?

What do YOU understand yourself saying?