The problem of the statement of “never saved to begin with”
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Amen
“I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away:
and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.”
John 15:1-6 KJV
It’s not that the branches were never in him they didn’t abide in him and bear fruit so they were taken away by God removed and burned up because they didn’t bear the fruits
“For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
but that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.”
Hebrews 6:7-8 KJV
The earth that bears the herbs meet for the one who planted and is tending it receives blessing. But the earth that produces no fruits only briars and thorns it’s near to cursing and its end is to be scorched.
“I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away:
and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.”
John 15:1-6 KJV
It’s not that the branches were never in him they didn’t abide in him and bear fruit so they were taken away by God removed and burned up because they didn’t bear the fruits
“For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
but that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.”
Hebrews 6:7-8 KJV
The earth that bears the herbs meet for the one who planted and is tending it receives blessing. But the earth that produces no fruits only briars and thorns it’s near to cursing and its end is to be scorched.
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Perhaps this’ll help:
It’s not our works of righteousness that saves us (Titus 3:5). It’s the righteousness commandments/works of God that do (Ps. 119:172, Rom. 1:16, 1 Cor. 15:1-4, Acts 17:30, Rom. 10:9-10, Acts 2:21, Col. 2:12, Acts 2:38, Jms 2:24). It is faith in Christ that does by the power of the gospel (Rom. 3:22, Phil. 3:9, Rom. 1:16).
The works of Christ that save us is His death, burial, resurrection, and what He has commanded us to do—which those are God given commandments to be saved by His grace. The term “works” is sometimes the equivalent of “obedience.” Elsewhere, Jesus promised victory to those who “keep my works,” i.e., the works (commands) prescribed by him (Rev. 2:26)
Take God's grace out of the equation, for just a minute. Now, how much would faith save or avail?
Now, take away faith, have only God's grace. Would anyone be saved without a faith that obeys/works?
We are to “continue in the grace of God” (Acts 13:43). Not “continue in sin” (Rom. 6:1).
Continuing in His grace would be to “continue in the faith” (Acts 14:22; Col. 1:23).
Grace has the answers for salvation when one ask what must we/I do? What do you want me to do? (Acts 2:37-28; Acts 16:30ff; Acts 9:6). Grace tells us what we must do to enter the kingdom of heaven (Matt. 7:21).
I believe God’s grace/goodness makes the unworthy, worthy. We are told to walk worthy (Eph. 4:1; Col. 1:10; 2 Thess. 2:12; cf. Rev. 3:4), and God’s grace helps us to do that.
Every command God gave is by His grace. They are rooted in His grace. The Bible is filled with grace from cover to cover. They are grace-given commands, teachings, etc etc.
Paul says “remembering without ceasing your work of faith..” 1 Thess. 1:3
Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent. (Jn 6:29)
There are differing kinds of works which so many people downright refuse to accept.
But none of these are our own works that we devised or came up with. God lovingly gave those works/commands for us. They are of God, because He gave us them. As we obey them, we are allowing Him to work in us (Phil. 2:13), as they are His works/commands that He lovingly and graciously gave mankind to have salvation.
Humble surrender to God's will as revealed in His word shows total dependence on God and not on oneself. A faith that works is one that is centered on doing the will of God.
It’s not our works of righteousness that saves us (Titus 3:5). It’s the righteousness commandments/works of God that do (Ps. 119:172, Rom. 1:16, 1 Cor. 15:1-4, Acts 17:30, Rom. 10:9-10, Acts 2:21, Col. 2:12, Acts 2:38, Jms 2:24). It is faith in Christ that does by the power of the gospel (Rom. 3:22, Phil. 3:9, Rom. 1:16).
The works of Christ that save us is His death, burial, resurrection, and what He has commanded us to do—which those are God given commandments to be saved by His grace. The term “works” is sometimes the equivalent of “obedience.” Elsewhere, Jesus promised victory to those who “keep my works,” i.e., the works (commands) prescribed by him (Rev. 2:26)
Take God's grace out of the equation, for just a minute. Now, how much would faith save or avail?
Now, take away faith, have only God's grace. Would anyone be saved without a faith that obeys/works?
We are to “continue in the grace of God” (Acts 13:43). Not “continue in sin” (Rom. 6:1).
Continuing in His grace would be to “continue in the faith” (Acts 14:22; Col. 1:23).
Grace has the answers for salvation when one ask what must we/I do? What do you want me to do? (Acts 2:37-28; Acts 16:30ff; Acts 9:6). Grace tells us what we must do to enter the kingdom of heaven (Matt. 7:21).
I believe God’s grace/goodness makes the unworthy, worthy. We are told to walk worthy (Eph. 4:1; Col. 1:10; 2 Thess. 2:12; cf. Rev. 3:4), and God’s grace helps us to do that.
Every command God gave is by His grace. They are rooted in His grace. The Bible is filled with grace from cover to cover. They are grace-given commands, teachings, etc etc.
Paul says “remembering without ceasing your work of faith..” 1 Thess. 1:3
Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent. (Jn 6:29)
There are differing kinds of works which so many people downright refuse to accept.
But none of these are our own works that we devised or came up with. God lovingly gave those works/commands for us. They are of God, because He gave us them. As we obey them, we are allowing Him to work in us (Phil. 2:13), as they are His works/commands that He lovingly and graciously gave mankind to have salvation.
Humble surrender to God's will as revealed in His word shows total dependence on God and not on oneself. A faith that works is one that is centered on doing the will of God.
False victories by any other name are still false victories. Your lack of any desire to hear what everyone else say who doesn't agree with you, and who even showed to you point blank from the scriptures how wrong you are...yes, this thread accomplished its task in showing that you had no intention of changing away from what you believed.
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We all can see the horrid confusions that result from basic failure to rightly divide the word of truth.
The confusing cacophony from the toxic mixture of what was TO Israel and what was TO the body of Christ, this thread shows the result.
That some can't seem to figure out Paul being separated out from the other eleven as THE apostle to the Gentiles, who preached the Gospel the Lord intended to be directed TO the Gentiles and Jews alike who were not going to be saved under the Kingdom Gospel put on hold, the resulting division is indeed sad.
MM
The confusing cacophony from the toxic mixture of what was TO Israel and what was TO the body of Christ, this thread shows the result.
That some can't seem to figure out Paul being separated out from the other eleven as THE apostle to the Gentiles, who preached the Gospel the Lord intended to be directed TO the Gentiles and Jews alike who were not going to be saved under the Kingdom Gospel put on hold, the resulting division is indeed sad.
MM
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