Is Open Theism Heresy?
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I read and explain the Bible from an open theist perspective. So, what you are getting from me is an open theist perspective. No appeals to authority (which are logical fallacies) other than the Bible and Hebrew and Greek Grammar.
There is no monolithic Open Theistic position, any more than there is a monolithic Calvinist or Protestant position. I enjoy discussing my ideas about what the Bible say and those of others live, and testing them for rigour in the crucible of intense scrutiny. Would you really rather divert discussion here away from discussing what the Bible is saying to us, and move it to debating about what so-called experts A, B and C wrote about various theological schemas? Why would any Christian want to leave what the Bible as authority is actually saying, and discussing what each one here interprets the Bible as actually saying, and instead debate about what mainly dead men and some living men have said about their favourite Bible schemas?
There is no monolithic Open Theistic position, any more than there is a monolithic Calvinist or Protestant position. I enjoy discussing my ideas about what the Bible say and those of others live, and testing them for rigour in the crucible of intense scrutiny. Would you really rather divert discussion here away from discussing what the Bible is saying to us, and move it to debating about what so-called experts A, B and C wrote about various theological schemas? Why would any Christian want to leave what the Bible as authority is actually saying, and discussing what each one here interprets the Bible as actually saying, and instead debate about what mainly dead men and some living men have said about their favourite Bible schemas?
I would say that everything God speaks in scripture was spoken in good faith and was true at the time He spoke it. So when He said that Nineveh would be destroyed in 40 days, that was his Trumpian opening gambit: "If you Ninevites continue on your present course you will certainly be destroyed in three days. I will unleash hell on you." That was their present destiny.
However, God is rational and relational and loving and prefers mercy over judgment, so if the Ninevites change course sufficiently for the better, He is willing to reward that and change their destiny. So, in the earlier present, when God said it, it was true. But later in a different present, it is no longer true, even though it was true. The new truth in this new now, is that He will not destroy Nineveh, if they continue in the new path of repentance.
However, God is rational and relational and loving and prefers mercy over judgment, so if the Ninevites change course sufficiently for the better, He is willing to reward that and change their destiny. So, in the earlier present, when God said it, it was true. But later in a different present, it is no longer true, even though it was true. The new truth in this new now, is that He will not destroy Nineveh, if they continue in the new path of repentance.
My source is the Bible. I came to an open theist perspective from reading the Bible, and then I found out that others had come to that perspective too from reading the Bible, and described their different perspective as Open Theism. So, I discovered AFTER reaching my perspective independently, that I was an Open theist. That's how I arrived at most of my theological perspectives. I read the Bible for myself, and discussed it with others and arrived at a personal perspective which I later discovered had a name.
The Bible is my teacher and the source of my present beliefs. My beliefs do develop, and sometime radically change, as I become more familiar with the entire body of scripture.
The Bible is my teacher and the source of my present beliefs. My beliefs do develop, and sometime radically change, as I become more familiar with the entire body of scripture.
Exo 32:7 And the LORD said unto Moses, Go, get thee down; for thy people, which thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves:
Exo 32:8 They have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them: they have made them a molten calf, and have worshipped it, and have sacrificed thereunto, and said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which have brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.
Exo 32:9 And the LORD said unto Moses, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people:
Exo 32:10 Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation.
Deu 9:12 And the LORD said unto me, Arise, get thee down quickly from hence; for thy people which thou hast brought forth out of Egypt have corrupted themselves; they are quickly turned aside out of the way which I commanded them; they have made them a molten image.
Deu 9:13 Furthermore the LORD spake unto me, saying, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people:
Deu 9:14 Let me alone, that I may destroy them, and blot out their name from under heaven: and I will make of thee a nation mightier and greater than they.
Psa 106:21
They forgat God their saviour, which had done great things in Egypt;
Psa 106:22Wondrous works in the land of Ham, and terrible things by the Red sea.
Psa 106:23 Therefore he said that he would destroy them, had not Moses his chosen stood before him in the breach, to turn away his wrath, lest he should destroy them.
These are God's words to Moses. God was intending to destroy Israel and keep Moses. Moses interacted with God and God changed His mind and God chose a different path and spared Israel. These texts show clearly that the future of the earth is a collaboration between God and the men God put in charge of the earth. They show God interacts with men and adapts His plans, based on how men respond to His prophecies. I am unwilling to impose an ideology onto scripture which claims it says the exact opposite of what it states plainly.
Exo 32:8 They have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them: they have made them a molten calf, and have worshipped it, and have sacrificed thereunto, and said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which have brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.
Exo 32:9 And the LORD said unto Moses, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people:
Exo 32:10 Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation.
Deu 9:12 And the LORD said unto me, Arise, get thee down quickly from hence; for thy people which thou hast brought forth out of Egypt have corrupted themselves; they are quickly turned aside out of the way which I commanded them; they have made them a molten image.
Deu 9:13 Furthermore the LORD spake unto me, saying, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people:
Deu 9:14 Let me alone, that I may destroy them, and blot out their name from under heaven: and I will make of thee a nation mightier and greater than they.
Psa 106:21
They forgat God their saviour, which had done great things in Egypt;
Psa 106:22Wondrous works in the land of Ham, and terrible things by the Red sea.
Psa 106:23 Therefore he said that he would destroy them, had not Moses his chosen stood before him in the breach, to turn away his wrath, lest he should destroy them.
These are God's words to Moses. God was intending to destroy Israel and keep Moses. Moses interacted with God and God changed His mind and God chose a different path and spared Israel. These texts show clearly that the future of the earth is a collaboration between God and the men God put in charge of the earth. They show God interacts with men and adapts His plans, based on how men respond to His prophecies. I am unwilling to impose an ideology onto scripture which claims it says the exact opposite of what it states plainly.
Open theism is not a denomination of Christianity. It is a perspective one derives from scripture when one lets it speak for itself without having to fit it into some presupposed systematic theology. I personally do not know of any author I would consider as "authoritative" regarding what an Open Theist must believe on everything scriptural. But then again, I do not consider any man authoritative on what some ism entails. All teachers make many mistakes. So why would I elevate any particular man to be the authoritative mouthpiece for my perspectives on scripture. I can, however, convey my understanding authoritatively as being mine.
a testimony of Christ, to which He witnessed in Genesis 3:15 and Exodus 12:13 to name only two clear witnesses, and which has already been established was His purpose before time began.
furthermore it is not prophecy here, it is the witness and testimony The Son, who from before time God purposed to be our Mediator and the propitiation for sin.
this absolutely does not prove your crazy claim that prophecy depends on human will.
furthermore it is not prophecy here, it is the witness and testimony The Son, who from before time God purposed to be our Mediator and the propitiation for sin.
this absolutely does not prove your crazy claim that prophecy depends on human will.
The term "open theism" was introduced in 1980 with theologian Richard Rice's book The Openness of God: The Relationship of Divine Foreknowledge and Human Free Will. The broader articulation of open theism was given in 1994, when five essays were published by evangelical scholars (including Rice) under the title The Openness of God.