Systematic Bible Study
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I depend on the NIV translators, who use an "eclectic" text, based on the latest editions of the Nestle-Aland/United Bible Societies' Greek New Testament, and who made their choices among the "variant" readings, but "kai" is okay with me as long as we are aware that in the Bible it is often used as an equal sign rather than as a plus sign.
While EPH 1:1b in the NIV, “To the saints in Ephesus, the faithful in Christ Jesus”, works just fine with the meaning of faithful defining saints, I guess the TR/GNT, "To the saints in Ephesus and the faithful in Christ Jesus" [in other Asia Minor churches] works fine, too, since it is very likely that the letter was meant to be circulated (cf. ACTS 19:1 & 20:31).
While EPH 1:1b in the NIV, “To the saints in Ephesus, the faithful in Christ Jesus”, works just fine with the meaning of faithful defining saints, I guess the TR/GNT, "To the saints in Ephesus and the faithful in Christ Jesus" [in other Asia Minor churches] works fine, too, since it is very likely that the letter was meant to be circulated (cf. ACTS 19:1 & 20:31).
Sinaiticus and Alexandrinus, although allegedly two of the oldest MSS, are also two of the most corrupted, defaced, emended MSS that contradict one another, with words being rubbed out and overwritten multiple times. They most probably survived so long because no one ever bothered to take them out to read them due to their appalling quality. MSS of comparable age were worn out with use. Personally. I would not bother with Bible versions based primarily on those two manuscripts.
Yes, and first I will put the two translations in parallel:
“Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.” (NIV)
"Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ." ( ? )
In EPH 1:2 Paul saluted the Ephesians by saying, “Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.”
Grace means gift, and in a Christian salutation means God’s blessing.
Peace means the cessation of war, which in this context refers to fellowship with God,
as in RM 5:1, “Since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand.”
This is why Paul wrote in 1TM 2:5, “There is one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus.”
Describing God as Father implies the Sonship of Jesus through whom saints may call God “our Father” (cf. MT 6:9).
Thus, in RM 8:29 Paul called Jesus “the firstborn among many brothers”.
Calling Jesus “Lord” implies his deity as the Son. HB 1:2-3a says, “In these last days God has spoken to us by His Son… the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of His being, sustaining all things by his powerful word”, which reflects JN 1:1-3&14, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God… through him all things were made… The Word became flesh and lived for awhile among us; We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son…”.
Calling Jesus “Christ” in Greek is the word for “Messiah” in Hebrew, meaning the Anointed One, referring to the One God anointed or chose to provide the possibility of salvation for humanity by the sacrifice of Himself on the cross (RM 3:25, HB 9:26&10:14, 1JN 2:2). This is the Gospel or good news that Jesus referred to in LK 4:18, quoting IS 61:1, “The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to preach the good news to the poor.”
Over...
“Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.” (NIV)
"Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ." ( ? )
In EPH 1:2 Paul saluted the Ephesians by saying, “Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.”
Grace means gift, and in a Christian salutation means God’s blessing.
Peace means the cessation of war, which in this context refers to fellowship with God,
as in RM 5:1, “Since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand.”
This is why Paul wrote in 1TM 2:5, “There is one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus.”
Describing God as Father implies the Sonship of Jesus through whom saints may call God “our Father” (cf. MT 6:9).
Thus, in RM 8:29 Paul called Jesus “the firstborn among many brothers”.
Calling Jesus “Lord” implies his deity as the Son. HB 1:2-3a says, “In these last days God has spoken to us by His Son… the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of His being, sustaining all things by his powerful word”, which reflects JN 1:1-3&14, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God… through him all things were made… The Word became flesh and lived for awhile among us; We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son…”.
Calling Jesus “Christ” in Greek is the word for “Messiah” in Hebrew, meaning the Anointed One, referring to the One God anointed or chose to provide the possibility of salvation for humanity by the sacrifice of Himself on the cross (RM 3:25, HB 9:26&10:14, 1JN 2:2). This is the Gospel or good news that Jesus referred to in LK 4:18, quoting IS 61:1, “The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to preach the good news to the poor.”
Over...
I pulled the book on Ephesians by my favorite commentator William Barclay down from my library shelf to refresh my memory about what he said regarding its interpretation, and I noted that his comments pull from verses later in the letter, such as citing 3:1 to learn that it was written while Paul was in prison and noting that 55 verses are almost the same as in the epistle to the Colossians.
However, I would prefer that we address such issues as we encounter them by reading from the beginning, and referring to 1:1 Barclay says that none of the best early manuscripts have the words "in Ephesus", which supports the view that this was a circular missive.
However, I would prefer that we address such issues as we encounter them by reading from the beginning, and referring to 1:1 Barclay says that none of the best early manuscripts have the words "in Ephesus", which supports the view that this was a circular missive.
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The second translation you marked with (?) is mine directly from the Greek. apo/from + genitive "God" + genitive "our" + genitive "Father" + and/kai + anarthrous genitive singular "a Lord" + genitive "Jesus" + genitive "Christ": indicating the all the genitives are being governed by apo/from.
I would define grace as unmerited favour, rather than gift. It is being offered something one would not have a legitimate right to have on the basis that one one deserves it.
I would consider peace as encompassing more than just the cessation of war. It would include more than detente. It would include both a cessation of war and the thriving that comes with replacing halted hostilities with a relationship of friendship rather than mere tolerance.
I would define grace as unmerited favour, rather than gift. It is being offered something one would not have a legitimate right to have on the basis that one one deserves it.
I would consider peace as encompassing more than just the cessation of war. It would include more than detente. It would include both a cessation of war and the thriving that comes with replacing halted hostilities with a relationship of friendship rather than mere tolerance.
Okay, but which Greek text?
(Gotta love that genitive :^)
I agree that grace is unmerited, but I don't favor "favour" above "gift" when referring to the "offered something".
Not sure you understand that I also consider "peace" as meaning more than cessation of war, namely fellowship with God
as in RM 5:1, “Since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand.”
(Gotta love that genitive :^)
I agree that grace is unmerited, but I don't favor "favour" above "gift" when referring to the "offered something".
Not sure you understand that I also consider "peace" as meaning more than cessation of war, namely fellowship with God
as in RM 5:1, “Since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand.”
I trust the Received Text the most.
I do understand that now, because now you have told me. It wasn't obvious from your previous posts. But that's how communication works. A gradual piecing together through trial and error or what to say and what perspective is being conveyed.
I will post some questions soon re your use of "a free gift" for grace in the Understanding God's Election" thread. and here as well.
I do understand that now, because now you have told me. It wasn't obvious from your previous posts. But that's how communication works. A gradual piecing together through trial and error or what to say and what perspective is being conveyed.
I will post some questions soon re your use of "a free gift" for grace in the Understanding God's Election" thread. and here as well.
What do you mean by "a free gift"? Where does scripture describe grace as a free gift? Is every instance in the Bible of grace/unmerited favour also a free gift ?
If I go to buy a new fridge which costs $1200 retail, and the dealer sees I am finding it hard to part with my cash and offers to sell it to me at the wholesale price, as a favour to me, which part of that deal is unmerited favour ? Which part of the deal is a free gift ?
Does some transaction no longer involve unmerited favour, if both participants are required to contribute something to make the deal happen ?
I'm trying to think of examples in scripture where grace was more like the fridge purchase at an underserved discount, rather than a completely free gift. And other examples where the gift was absolutely free, rather than undeservedly generous. Maybe posters can suggest examples of either.
If I go to buy a new fridge which costs $1200 retail, and the dealer sees I am finding it hard to part with my cash and offers to sell it to me at the wholesale price, as a favour to me, which part of that deal is unmerited favour ? Which part of the deal is a free gift ?
Does some transaction no longer involve unmerited favour, if both participants are required to contribute something to make the deal happen ?
I'm trying to think of examples in scripture where grace was more like the fridge purchase at an underserved discount, rather than a completely free gift. And other examples where the gift was absolutely free, rather than undeservedly generous. Maybe posters can suggest examples of either.
