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I am saying the 1/4 and 1/3 are in the first half before the antichrist sits in the Temple IMO
Pre-Trib Objections
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I am saying the 1/4 and 1/3 are in the first half before the antichrist sits in the Temple IMO
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These IMO are all unrighteous gentiles (nations) that survive the Tribulation and help those who are fleeing the antichrist with nothing.
because they are in the 1000 year reign of Christ they are judged by works only. !/3 of the jews who survive are given a free pass to the Kingdom. All enter the Kingdom with flesh and blood to repopulate the earth.
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It is impossible for the sheep to be jews
Zech 14:16 Then every one that survives of all the nations ( gentiles ) that have come against Jerusalem shall go up year after year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of booths
Ok, so given that, and considering the claims that some make in that the first half is not God's wrath...that just makes no sense. Granted, the second half is indeed more horrible, but when more than half die in the first half... No. The idea that the first half is all natural because of it not being a measure of God's wrath, that simply is irrational when it is the horsemen released by Christ that start the massive death that this planet has not seen since the flood.
MM
Are you seriously going there? I never said that people are literally sheep, including the Jewish people. What are you getting at with this?
MM
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Sorry-didnt want to offend you.
If you were saying that Israel are the sheep from the Sheep/Goat judgement then we are in disagreement
Never would say jewish people are considered sheep!!!!!!!!!!!!
But the sheep/goats are people from the gentiles
I am going to drop out of this posting as none understand what I am saying.
But I would like to share what was given to me.
Today is the New Moon, In 7 months time the Tribulation will begin in September on Feast Trumpets
and counting 1335 days to the rapture/resurrection on Pentecost ( Rev 14:14 )
Shalom
But I would like to share what was given to me.
Today is the New Moon, In 7 months time the Tribulation will begin in September on Feast Trumpets
and counting 1335 days to the rapture/resurrection on Pentecost ( Rev 14:14 )
Shalom
I think I have heard you say this before specifically about the feast of trumpets
Let us find the answer in scripture:
Matthew 25:32-33
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
All the surviving people of the nations who survive up to His second coming are those who will be divided up AS the sheep and goats. The goats are those who take the mark of the beast upon them, and who aided the beast and/or rejected Christ and/or His Everlasting Gospel, also spoken of in Revelation.
So, the repopulation of the Kingdom nations, apart from faithful and remnant Israel, will be the peoples of the nations who believed the Everlasting Gospel, or placed their faith in Christ to persevere unto the end while not taking the mark of the beast upon themselves.
Does that answer your question?
We know that more than half the world's population will die in just the first half of the tribulation that post-tribbers claim is not God's "wrath"...as if that at all has any credible standing in the face of the evidence to the contrary.
It is absolutely true that the vials will indeed be the greater measure of His wrath, but, then, wrath is wrath, be it in whatever measures it is poured out.
If I spike the party punch with only half the bottle of Everclear, the substance in the bottle is alcoholic. The punch, although still mostly punch, is ALSO an alcoholic drink, although not as strong as what's in the bottle.
It is true, therefore, that the Lord's "great wrath" is poured out in the second half from the vials, but the seals release pestilence, war and death on a scale not ever seen before since the flood, with the second half being a measure of His wrath greater than any the world has ever seen. Imagine that...the second half is what has never been seen on this earth, even with the killing of ALL the world's populations in the flood, save eight.
Whackos like Steve Anderson, who demand that the vials are the ONLY expression of God's true wrath, simply on the basis of labels, they preach that nonsense at the exclusion of so much evidence to the contrary to their base claim, and their cultic followings sit there nodding in unison without even one critical thought applied to what they are hearing compared to what's written in the very word of God. That's like him claiming the punch is not an alcoholic drink since the Everclear in the bottle is the only alcohol in the room... How moronic...
Him and his followers never talk about the math that reveals the magnitude of death and destruction with the release of just the four horsemen at the very beginning in Revelation 6. They are blind and indifferent to the trumpets and the destruction they bring upon the whole world, which is precisely the outcome Satan wants for professing believers he attacks with falsehoods.
Revelation, as early as chapter 6, makes mention of the wrath of the Lamb having come to the earth; Lamb, which is a purely Jewish reference to Messiah. Not once did Paul teach the Gentiles to refer to Christ as the "Lamb" or the "son of man." Those are references and naming conventions that are germane to the Jews alone, but trash doctrines like replacement theology has Gentiles ignorantly addressing Him as such out of pure ignorance. Replacement theology garbage has its followers ignoring such declarations as these:
Matthew 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
He commanded His disciples to go ONLY to Israel with the Kingdom Gospel, and not even to the mixed breed Samaritans, who were a mixture of Jewish and Gentile blood.
Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Sorry about going into this tangent, but it does strike at the heart of the foolishness that drives some to the idea that the Lord is going to allow the tortuous death and destruction to His own body, which was only ONCE tortured and killed for all, and will not ever be exposed to that shame a second time. Moses, who struck the rock a second time, that cost him his entry into the promised land he so wanted to see. The second trike upon His body will never happen, and those who want to remain here during the tribulation are not members of His body.
If they think that claiming the body of Christ is not similar to His earthly body that was crucified, they will need to explain how the physical, then, can be made more real and of greater importance than the spiritual. Spiritually, WE are His body, and to allow His own wrath upon His own spiritual body...no. That is pure foolishness!
MM
Oh, come on! You asked me a question, and I answered it in post #49. Please don't run off without at least engaging us who are conversational rather than to treat us all like we are in the same measure of character as those who refuse to consider the evidence.
MM
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Pretty crystal clear I am a date setter
We too far apart MM to continue a discussion
Being an Israeli, of Ashkenazi descent, I have always been far apart from most others who do not have the same background and experiences as I.
MM
Yet - these very words unmistakably show that you have confused the 'physical' with the 'spiritual'.
The Lord was also laughed at, insulted, ridiculed, humiliated, beaten, and spat upon.
Has anyone who is a member of the body of Christ today experienced any of these things?
Many Christians are beheaded or tortured and killed in various ways today because of their faith.
Did the Lord allow the physical torture of many of His body for hundreds of years during the Dark Ages?
Was it the wrath of God? Or, can you bring yourself to believe that the devil could possibly also have wrath?
You need to stop focusing so highly on the bark of one tree and back up so that you can see the whole forest.
Just exactly where do you draw the line for a "special" group of Christians who you imagine should/will not experience 'tribulation'?
I do not know of anyone who "wants" to "remain" for a 'tribulation' period.
You should be careful to not make false-accusations against others simply because they see something differently.
If the 'pre-trib' view were true - and, [even if] someone were to actually "want to remain" for a coming tribulation period - they would still be raptured with the rest...
Anyone who thinks otherwise does not understand God, His ways, or/and His Word. Instead, they are thinking with the 'wisdom' of men.
Not even going to go here - except to say that your 'background and experiences' have "robbed" you of the truth...
Remember what Jesus said: No man knoweth the day or the hour.
32 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 33 Be on guard! Be alert[e]! You do not know when that time will come. 34 It’s like a man going away: He leaves his house and puts his servants in charge, each with their assigned task, and tells the one at the door to keep watch.
35 “Therefore keep watch because you do not know when the owner of the house will come back—whether in the evening, or at midnight, or when the rooster crows, or at dawn. 36 If he comes suddenly, do not let him find you sleeping. 37 What I say to you, I say to everyone: ‘Watch!’”
Seems like Im watching people who havent a clue and probably so. Do you really believe Jesus didn't know? Do you know why on the night Jesus was arrested He came 3 times to tell his disciples to WATCH?
35 “Therefore keep watch because you do not know when the owner of the house will come back—whether in the evening, or at midnight, or when the rooster crows, or at dawn. 36 If he comes suddenly, do not let him find you sleeping. 37 What I say to you, I say to everyone: ‘Watch!’”
Seems like Im watching people who havent a clue and probably so. Do you really believe Jesus didn't know? Do you know why on the night Jesus was arrested He came 3 times to tell his disciples to WATCH?
Not even going to go here - except to say that your 'background and experiences' have "robbed" you of the truth...
Well, let's just say that it robbed me of your bent and twist upon the scriptures.
How about, "My dad can beat up your dad..."?
Ok, next...
MM
I am convinced that my Father will one day show you that I have not "bent" or "twisted" the scriptures.
Believe as you wish - it is your God-given right. And, I would defend that right even if we disagree.
Hi MM. I think the Lord's second coming in a cloud is in Revelation 18:1 where He illuminates the earth with his glory and then tells his people to "Come out!" (18:4) and then they rejoice together (18:20; 19:1-7), then the saints receive their white garments, and then they follow Jesus in white horses (Rev. 19:14). There is no contradition.