The problem of the statement of “never saved to begin with”

[bluejean_bible]

Jesus said God would not revoke salvation; not that believers could not repudiate their salvation. (MT 10:22)

I suggest Matthew 10:22 does not say we can do that. I read it as giving us assurance to never lose sight of the fact that as we hold on through trials and travails eternal life in Christ awaits.

Salvation isn't tenuous. Of all that the father Gives him, he shall lose none. No one shall ever snatch them from my hand. I shall never cast them out.

Those are absolutes.
I don't think it spiritually healthy for us to think we're kinda saved as long as we don't slip up. Or lose faith.

Jesus assures us,he will never lose faith in us.

 

[bluejean_bible]

I would suggest you read the Parables of the Unforgiving Servant and the Prodigal Son.
Both teach the heart of God on these issues.

The unforgiving servant lost the forgiveness that was freely given to him by the grace of the Master (God).
The prodigal son lost the benefits freely given to him by being a living son to the Father (God).

The Master did not lose the servant and the Father did not lose the son.

They both left on their own.

You're forgetting the prodigal son returned to the father. The father rejoiced and welcomed him with open arms and celebrated. While that son's brother was upset the prodigal returned and his father received him with an open and glad heart.

The unforgiving servant parable teaches us that forgiveness should be in like proportion to the amount forgiven.

 

[Lamar]

You're forgetting the prodigal son returned to the father. The father rejoiced and welcomed him with open arms and celebrated. While that son's brother was upset the prodigal returned and his father received him with an open and glad heart.

The unforgiving servant parable teaches us that forgiveness should be in like proportion to the amount forgiven.

???

What you wrote has no bearing on my post.

The servant still had his forgiveness revoked.
The son was still without his benefits until he acted properly toward his father.

You are simply grasping at straws.

I suspect you know this.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

alright, let's get to the top & bottom of this: do you believe a saved Christian can lose salvation?

he must not be very saved then if they can lose salvation

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

So believer08 said I was making accusations with no scripture and he put me on ignore. There’s a difference between accusations and opinions. The context of my post was solid opinionated. Funny how I knew hed find a way not to answer the two questions that I was trying to prove something with. How convenient. Good move though. ( you didn’t have the slightest clue did you?)

he puts anyone who does not agree with him on ignore. He is not hear to discuss with anyone. just to preach his doctrine.. and he evidently does not like to have anyone say something against him, I guess it bothers him?

Just continue to expose him

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I have a hard time grasping the idea that people actually believe that God lets us choose who’s going to hang out at his place with him for eternity. Yeah, there’s going to be all kinds of glory for him in that scenario!!!

He is glorified.

Because he also let everyone chose who would not hang out with him, Yet he died for them. Meaning they have no one to blame but themselves and no one can speak a word about Jesus

 

[HeIsHere]

I understand the argument. But you'll have to explain Scripture you use and keep reminding me of the meaning of terminology like "spiritual salvation" and why you use it.

You'll also have to explain why you insert allegations like "by one's own effort" after I've explained Phil2:12-13 several times to show the exact opposite and how God is the key to our ability to accomplish our Salvation as He commands us to work to do.

We are saved from "something" correct?

And the "something" can vary correct?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

You don't know the difference between quote and surmise, do you?

Be honest, people are watching.

Belief plus nothing else means solely

surmise is not found in john 3. so have no idea what your talking about (No evidence is mentioned or required in John 3. or in Moses day. when they looked at the serpent..

Yes, lets be honest..

with the word. and each other.

 

[Lamar]

The obedience of Jesus was not sufficient?

Really?
This is your answer?
Obtuse much?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

apostasy
1
: an act of refusing to continue to follow, obey, or recognize a religious faith
2
: abandonment of a previous loyalty : defection

What part of this definition do you disagree with?

I will take the biblical defenition thank you.

again, people fall away from the truth. they can not fall away from God.

maybe you need to realise this.. why puff yourself up?

 

[HeIsHere]

I will take the biblical defenition thank you.

again, people fall away from the truth. they can not fall away from God.

maybe you need to realise this.. why puff yourself up?

Agree 100%
That is exactly to what all the warnings are connected...falling away from the truth, but not their status as justified.

 

[Lamar]

he must not be very saved then if they can lose salvation

"very saved"???

Why don't you just let your yes be yes and your no be no?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Make it agree with itself???

The Bible does not contradict

amen,yet your interpretations do cause the word to contradict itself.

. and we do not need to "make it agree with itself".

Yes you do. If your interpretation causes the word to contradict. you have to adjust your interpretation to make the word agree..

Your choice of words is telling.

Your pride is even more telling

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

It is either 100% a free gift which is irrevocable or it is achieving/accomplishing salvation by one's own effort.

Agree, it is completely dichotomous by God's design, one or the other, one is complete success, the other is doomed to failure.

sadly,

as we see from the left and their thinking today. when you think you are right, and your pride is deep. No facts or truth will change your thinking

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I understand the argument. But you'll have to explain Scripture you use and keep reminding me of the meaning of terminology like "spiritual salvation" and why you use it.

You'll also have to explain why you insert allegations like "by one's own effort" after I've explained Phil2:12-13 several times to show the exact opposite and how God is the key to our ability to accomplish our Salvation as He commands us to work to do.

The wage of sin is death

the gift of God is life

You will have to explain how we are made alive by our works..

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Once again, no one has made this claim.

You are attempting to muddy the water with your "achieve salvation" strawman.

No one is claiming to earn salvation.

How you can look in a mirror and claim this, just boggles my mind

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I would suggest you read the Parables of the Unforgiving Servant and the Prodigal Son.
Both teach the heart of God on these issues.

The unforgiving servant lost the forgiveness that was freely given to him by the grace of the Master (God).
The prodigal son lost the benefits freely given to him by being a living son to the Father (God).

The Master did not lose the servant and the Father did not lose the son.

They both left on their own.

so they failed to earn their salvation.

understood

 

[HeIsHere]

sadly,

as we see from the left and their thinking today. when you think you are right, and your pride is deep. No facts or truth will change your thinking

Is there something they may not want to face, that is what I ponder when people add in obedience, abiding or assert a losable salvation.
Just something that crosses my mind.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Really?
This is your answer?
Obtuse much?

Well thats prety much what you are saying.

how else should we respond?

is it Jesus work

or is it jesus work plus our work?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Is there something they may not want to face, that is what I ponder when people add in obedience, abiding or assert a losable salvation.
Just something that crosses my mind.

yet they claim they are not trying to earn something