The Yoke of Christ?

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Jul 3, 2015
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#41

Mark 12 verse 30 ~ Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.
 
Oct 11, 2023
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#42
Jesus didn't teach the law
In Matthew 4:15-23, Christ began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and God's law was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel of the Kingdom, which is in accordance with Jesus being sent in fulfillment of the promise to bless us by turning us from our wickedness. Christ also set a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to God's law and as his followers we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22) and that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way that he walked (1 John 2:6). In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so the way to believe in what Jesus spent his ministry teaching by word and by example and in what he accomplished through the cross is by repenting and becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's law (Acts 21:20) while the position that we aren't under the Law of God and have no obligation to refrain from doing what it reveals to be wickedness is in direct opposition to what Jesus was sent to accomplish.

and I never saw any other law other than the one that we died to what other law is there?
Again, in Romans 7:21-8:2, Paul referred to the law of sin, the Law of God, the law of his mind, the law of sin and death, and the Law of the Spirit. Likewise, in Romans 3:27, Paul contrasted a law of works with a law of faith, in Galatians 3:10-12, he contrasted "works of the law" with the Book of the Law, and in Romans 3:31, he said that our faith upholds the Law of God in contrast with saying that "works of the law" are not of faith, so that phrase does not refer to the Law of God. Some of these categories are different ways of referring to the same thing, but Paul can't be correctly understood by assuming that he was always referring to the Law of God.

precisely Jesus gave the commandments to follow as far as the law goes those who try to follow the law according to ot way teach that we are still to follow it in that way but Jesus didn't teach that.

I don't know the other law that @Soyeong is talking about maybe they can enlighten me when they respond
Everything commanded in the Law of God is either in regard to how to love God or our neighbor, which is why Jesus said in Matthew 22:36-40 that those are the greatest two commandments and that all of the other commandments hang on them, so the position that we should obey the greatest two commandments is also the position that we should obey the commandments that hang on them. For example, if we love God and our neighbor, then we won't commit adultery, theft, murder, idolatry, rape, favoritism, kidnapping, and so forth for the rest of God's law. The greatest two commandment are much easier said than done, so thankfully God graciously gave us the rest of His commandments in order to flesh out what it looks like to correctly obey them. So someone who was correctly living in obedience to the greatest two commandments would be indistinguishable from from who was correctly living in obedience to the rest of God's commandments because they would both be following the same example that Jesus set for us to follow.
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
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#43
.
Matt 11:28 . . Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden

Now the thing is: the Jews, even in Jesus' day, associated with God by means of the
covenant that Moses' people entered into with God per Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers,
and Deuteronomy which was a load under which the people labored because the
covenant rewards compliance with blessings, while at the same time penalizes non
compliance with curses, e.g. Lev 26:3-38, Deut 27:15-26, and Deut 28:1-69.

So then, the people could never relax because Moses' law-- with its
requirements and its consequences --is constantly hanging over their heads
like a sword of Damocles, suspended by a slender thread easily severed by
the slightest infraction.

Matt 11:29 . . you will find rest for your souls.

The routine seventh day sabbath required by the covenant that Moses'
people entered into with God per Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and
Deuteronomy provides rest for one's body, but not for one's soul because
that requires an act of God whereas the routine sabbath any man can do.

Matt 11:30 . . For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Jesus is the mediator of a new covenant wherein are no curses listed for non
compliance like those listed in Moses' covenant.
_
 
Oct 11, 2023
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#44
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Matt 11:28 . . Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden

Now the thing is: the Jews, even in Jesus' day, associated with God by means of the
covenant that Moses' people entered into with God per Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers,
and Deuteronomy which was a load under which the people labored because the
covenant rewards compliance with blessings, while at the same time penalizes non
compliance with curses, e.g. Lev 26:3-38, Deut 27:15-26, and Deut 28:1-69.


So then, the people could never relax because Moses' law-- with its
requirements and its consequences --is constantly hanging over their heads
like a sword of Damocles, suspended by a slender thread easily severed by
the slightest infraction.


Matt 11:29 . . you will find rest for your souls.

The routine seventh day sabbath required by the covenant that Moses'
people entered into with God per Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and
Deuteronomy provides rest for one's body, but not for one's soul because
that requires an act of God whereas the routine sabbath any man can do.


Matt 11:30 . . For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Jesus is the mediator of a new covenant wherein are no curses listed for non
compliance like those listed in Moses' covenant.
_
Jesus set a sinless example for us to learn from of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law, and in Matthew 11:28-30, he was inviting people to come to him for rest and to learn from him, not inviting people to come to him for rest instead of learning from him. Moreover, by Jesus saying that we would find rest for our souls, he was referencing Jeremiah 6:16-19, where the Mosaic Law is referred to as the good way where we will find rest for our souls, but people don't want to walk in it.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
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#45
If you had the choice between taking the yoke of the law, a harsh and severe task master, upon yourself or taking His, gentle and lowly in heart, yoke upon you?

The only useful thing that taking the former upon yourself really does is lead you to the latter.

Jeremiah 6 is spoken within the context of "Your burnt offerings are not acceptable; your sacrifices do not please Me (v. 20b)."

I gather these must not have been offered with a gentle and lowly heart but pridefully and either brutally or at the least unkindly (look up antonyms for 'gentle' for a fitting word).
 
Oct 11, 2023
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#46
If you had the choice between taking the yoke of the law, a harsh and severe task master, upon yourself or taking His, gentle and lowly in heart, yoke upon you?

The only useful thing that taking the former upon yourself really does is lead you to the latter.
The view that you have of the law matches the view that you have of the Lawgiver for giving it. For example, wise laws come from a wise God and unrighteous laws don't come from a righteous God. The Psalms express an extremely positive view of obeying God's law, such as with David repeatedly saying that he loved it and delighted in obeying it, which certainly matched his view of the Lawgiver, so if we consider the Psalms to be Scripture and to therefore express a correct view of obeying God's law, then we will also delight in obeying it, which incompatible with viewing it as being a harsh and severe task master. For example, in Psalms 1:1-2, blessed are those who delight in the Law of God and meditate on it day and night, so we can't believe in the truth of these words as Scripture while not allowing them to shape our view of obeying it. If you have such as poor view of the law that you consider it to be a harsh and severe task master, then you also have an equally poor view of God for giving it, which is also incompatible with that Jesus is gentile and lowly in heart. In other words, it is contradictory to consider God's word to be a harsh and severe task master while considering God's word made flesh to be gentle and lowly in heart. God's word leads us to God's word made flesh because it is His instructions for how to know him.

Jeremiah 6 is spoken within the context of "Your burnt offerings are not acceptable; your sacrifices do not please Me (v. 20b)."

I gather these must not have been offered with a gentle and lowly heart but pridefully and either brutally or at the least unkindly (look up antonyms for 'gentle' for a fitting word).
That was said because they weren't walking in obedience to God's law, which is the good way where we will find rest for our souls. It's the same issue as Isaiah 1:11-20.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
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#47
The view that you have of the law matches the view that you have of the Lawgiver for giving it
Your perception is highly suspect from the beginning, so I really don't see any sense in continuing any deeper into your reasoning.
 
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#48
Your perception is highly suspect from the beginning, so I really don't see any sense in continuing any deeper into your reasoning.
I gave examples of how that is true, such as with a wise God being a giver of wise laws. Please explain why it is not contradictory to think that the law is a harsh and severe task masker while also thinking that the Lawgiver is not.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
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#49
I gave examples of how that is true, such as with a wise God being a giver of wise laws. Please explain why it is not contradictory to think that the law is a harsh and severe task masker while also thinking that the Lawgiver is not.
Galatians 3:23-25
...For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come from the law. 22But the Scripture pronounces all things confined by sin, so that by faith in Jesus Christ the promise might be given to those who believe.
23Before this faith came, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. 24So the law became our guardian to lead us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25Now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

If the master appoints a slave as a guardian to his sons, how does the master's character equate to the character of the slave?
 
Oct 11, 2023
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#50
Galatians 3:23-25
...For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come from the law. 22But the Scripture pronounces all things confined by sin, so that by faith in Jesus Christ the promise might be given to those who believe.
23Before this faith came, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. 24So the law became our guardian to lead us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25Now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

If the master appoints a slave as a guardian to his sons, how does the master's character equate to the character of the slave?
A guardian is a protector, not a harsh and severe task master. For example, a child needs a guardian to help them cross a busy street until they can be trusted to safely cross it on their own, but it would be incorrect for the child to think that no longer needing to be under a guardian means that they are permitted to go play in a busy street. The reason why God's law leads us to Christ is not so that we can then reject everything that he taught and be permitted to go back to being doers of what it reveals to be wickedness, but rather it leads us to Christ because it was given to teach us how to know him. Christ was sent in fulfillment of the promise to bless us by turning us from our wickedness (Acts 3:25-26).

The character of the instructions that someone gives reflect their character, but you are inserting a 3rd party. wIn any case, an agent of a master represents them and is acting in their name.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
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#51
A guardian is a protector, not a harsh and severe task master. For example, a child needs a guardian to help them cross a busy street until they can be trusted to safely cross it on their own, but it would be incorrect for the child to think that no longer needing to be under a guardian means that they are permitted to go play in a busy street. The reason why God's law leads us to Christ is not so that we can then reject everything that he taught and be permitted to go back to being doers of what it reveals to be wickedness, but rather it leads us to Christ because it was given to teach us how to know him. Christ was sent in fulfillment of the promise to bless us by turning us from our wickedness (Acts 3:25-26).

The character of the instructions that someone gives reflect their character, but you are inserting a 3rd party. wIn any case, an agent of a master represents them and is acting in their name.
In this case, the law, invariably and without exception, results in death. There is no hope for us in it but a sure expectation of it. Is it no wonder it leads to ('leading to' another implies an leading 'away from' the other) the only other option there is for life? The only way to life is made available, by grace through faith, in Christ.
 
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#52
In this case, the law, invariably and without exception, results in death. There is no hope for us in it but a sure expectation of it.
Rather, the Bible repeatedly states that obeying God's law leads to life while it is refusing to submit to it that leads to death. For example, in Romans 10:5-8, Paul referred to Deuteronomy 30 as the word of faith that we proclaim in regard to proclaiming that God's law is not too difficult for us to obey and that obedience to it brings life and a blessing while disobedience brings death and a curse, so choose life! In Deuteronomy 32:46-47, God's law is our very life. In Proverbs 3:18, it is a Tree of Life for all who take hold of it. In Proverbs 6:23, for the commandment is a lamp and the teaching a light, and the reproofs of discipline are the way of life. In Revelation 22:14, those who kept God's commandments are given the right to eat from the Tree of Life. In Hebrews 5:9, Jesus has become a source of eternal salvation for those who obey Him. In Matthew 19:17, Jesus said that the way to enter eternal life is by obeying God's commandments. In Luke 10:25-28, Jesus affirmed that the way to inherit eternal life is by obeying the greatest two commandments. In Romans 2:6-7, those who persist in doing good will be given eternal life. In Romans 6:19-23, we are no longer to present ourselves as slaves to impurity, lawlessness, and sin but are now to present ourselves as slaves to God and to righteousness leading to sanctification, and the goal of sanctification is eternal life in Christ, which is the gift of God, so being a doer of God's law is His gift of eternal life.

[/quote]Is it no wonder it leads to ('leading to' another implies an leading 'away from' the other) the only other option there is for life? The only way to life is made available, by grace through faith, in Christ.[/QUOTE]
A student does not move on to algebra by disregarding everything that they were taught about addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division, but rather their new teacher builds upon what they were previously taught. God's word straightforwardly leads us to God's word made flesh, who embodied God's word by setting a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to it. Jesus did not come with the message to stop repenting because we are not permitted to be doers of what God's law reveals to wickedness now that he has come, but just the opposite. In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith in Christ. It is contradictory to think that we should have faith in God's word made flesh, but not in God's word.
 
Jul 28, 2017
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#53
I gave examples of how that is true, such as with a wise God being a giver of wise laws. Please explain why it is not contradictory to think that the law is a harsh and severe task masker while also thinking that the Lawgiver is not.
If good fruit comes from a good tree and a good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, and a evil trees produces evil fruit and cannot bring forth good fruit. Then if it is written And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
It is even written, ""..out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil."

If the law of truth is that there is only one middle point of any quantifiable area, then two trees could not occupy the same center space at the same time. Then either you believe that the law was that man could freely of every tree of the garden, or you don't.

Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.
Matt 12:33
 
Oct 24, 2012
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#54
everything you say is true, but we feel what we feel right? I try and tell my soul... I am good, the Lord is my Shepard and I lack nothing. But my natural mind is a servant to the flesh. My flesh and my spirit battle...
yes, that is true taught to us in our first birth of flesh nature, we do that, scared in fear to be loved and accepted. We grow up wanting to be loved. was loved in those first nine months in mom. Totally dependent on Mom to eat for us, live for us, die for us, We knew not how, we do know though
Then the first birth happens and we are in the cold of this world first born in. You have kids
time to just make a stand in your choice God loves you as Mom did in those first nine months before you were born here on earth yourself
teach kids Inner-dependancy on God Father and Son, stick with them, no matter what, that is what Father does.
Independency is a mistake made by first birth natured people, even though trying to do good, can't, no one
That is why Father sent Son to die only once in people's stead, he did that willingly on that cross once for us all to stand in trust to Daddy, Father, PaPa in no matter what
Can I, you and others do that, settle that within self? That be between God and you each personally
Feelings do not leave, they need to be seen and revealed by God to each, then feelings get put in their proper place and do not lead anymore as well as did on their way out when stand in trust to God above self and anyone else.
Yet still continue to try to worry and stress anyone that will listen and not let it pass in the how why and should ?'s. of our first born flesh.
Hebrews 4 a great chapter on rest and yet one, anyone still work. Learning how to whistle while you work, whether or not you like the work you do or not
Josep h in Genesis jailed I think for 13 years illegally, a long while and Joseph did not quit belief to God, I bet wanted to by feelings (thoughts), yet chose to not let them run his life as Cane did in killing his brother Abel
taking all thought captive to the obedience of Christ!
How did he do it? by Faith breaking that down
Forever
Able
In
the
Heavens

Forwarding
All
Issues
To
Heaven

Settle it in you Luke 21:14-15 in love not anger over anything anymore, that is renewing the mind of self to God himself in the lead over the first born you. You being willing over the trying you have been in and can't do it as you see the truth in that, happening to you as in Romans 7 states to you too.
Romans 12 is about renewing the mind, to see from Father's view through Son to you. Do you think you will see truth over error? As we both continue to grow up in maturity eating the truth of the word of God for us all in love to us all?
I see it happening in me and happening in many and I thank God all in all for it all, whether another sees it or not, I trust God to get whatever is needed to get through to us all in God's perfect timing, not mine or anyone else
As you have been learning. an d will continue =, me too thank you for your prayers also, I prayed and stand in trust to Daddy, the Father of the risen Son Jesus in English
 
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#55
If good fruit comes from a good tree and a good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, and a evil trees produces evil fruit and cannot bring forth good fruit. Then if it is written And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
It is even written, ""..out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil."

If the law of truth is that there is only one middle point of any quantifiable area, then two trees could not occupy the same center space at the same time. Then either you believe that the law was that man could freely of every tree of the garden, or you don't.

Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.
Matt 12:33
The Garden might not have just one center point depending upon its shape, but the Bible is not a scientific textbook, so it is not suggesting that Adam did anything the math to calculate the exact center point of the Garden. If someone said that they were in the middle of reading a book, then it would be incorrect to assume that they were saying that they have done the math to calculate the exact center of the book, there is only one word at that spot, and that the word that they are on. The word can also be understood to refer to a place of prominence or to what Eve was focused on.
 
May 28, 2018
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#56
Jesus set a sinless example for us

Jesus' sinless perfection was due to his unique heredity.

1John 3:9 . . No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed
abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.


Born-again Christians are not children of God by means of heredity, rather,
they are in His family circle by means of creation & adoption; so I think we
may safely assume they will never be sinless in this life.


1John 1:8-10 . . If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and
the truth is not in us. . . If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a
liar, and His word is not in us.
_
 
Sep 2, 2020
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#57
We are told in Matthew 11:28-30 that we are to put on the yoke of Christ. What does this imply? Does the Father put this yoke on us or do we?
Is the wearing of this yoke a work or an outward symbol of an inward grace?
What else does he say in the statement ? What I mean to say is Reading or hearing more of a statement helps to understand it better

All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Come unto me,( you come to me ) all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.( and I’ll give you this )

Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: ( you take this upon yourself )

and ye shall find rest unto your souls.( this is what you’ll find )

For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭11:27-30‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is,

and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; ( our action )

and all these things shall be added unto you.”( the result )
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭6:33‬ ‭

as we listen to Jesus preach the gospel of the kingdom , we are learning about God our Heavenly Father through him the Son

“neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. “

“Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:6-9‬ ‭

“And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This was never taught before Jesus

“After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: but if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭6:9-10, 12-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

But it’s Gods true word there for all to hear and respond to one way or another The result will come from whether it’s accepted and believed or rejected and cast aside

But if you look at what Jesus taught his disciples or all the people who believed in him as the messiah and followed after him listened to his sermons and believed what he taught about God the father and showed regarding himself the son ect

even people afterwards that never actually met Jesus became his disciples through the apostles witness of his ministry for no stance the gospel according to Matthew or the gospel according to mark or John or even luke who supplies the most eye witness accounts of Jesus actions upon earth

We have to actually reach out to God because we believe we act …..he’s waiting for us all to do it he acted in the gospel now it’s our call

“and hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;


that they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: for in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭17:26-28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We should hear meaning listen to carefully gods word and seek after him through what we are learning that’s the yoke of Christ to hear and accept his words and then apply them to life as your a ke to learn and apply them …..
 
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#58
I agree that we won’t become perfect in this life, but our goal should nevertheless be to follow the perfect example that Jesus set for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Torah, which is what he was inviting us to learn from in Matthew 11:28-30, and which is the good way where we will find rest for our souls in Jeremiah 6:16-19.

Being born again is about directing our lives towards being in God’s likeness through being a doer of His character traits, which is why those who are not doers of righteous works in obedience to the Torah are not children of God (1 John 3:4-10).
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
6,034
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#59
I agree that we won’t become perfect in this life, but our goal should nevertheless be to follow
the perfect example that Jesus set for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Torah,

Christians do not associate with the supreme being by means of the
covenant that Moses' people agreed upon with God per Exodus, Leviticus,
Numbers, and Deuteronomy, We associate with the supreme being by
means of a different covenant. Torah Christians have a seriously convoluted
concept of the new way that Christ set in motion for himself and for his
followers via his crucifixion and resurrection.
_
 
Apr 29, 2012
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#60


Hello Gideon300, @Lamar, et al, I agree that it was typical to yoke a pair of oxen together, a mature "leader/teacher" and an immature "follower/learner", for a number of important reasons (as you mentioned above).

I've loved this passage (Matthew 11:28-30) from the very first time that I read it as a believer (as I suppose most do), and I've always pictured the Lord as the Plowman holding the reins. I've come to believe something else however (for the most part anyway), that our "taking ~HIS~ yoke upon us and ~learning~ from Him" means that He isn't the Plowman holding the reins, but the leader/teacher who we are yoked together with instead.

Thoughts?

God bless you!!

~Deuteronomy (David)
Matthew 11
28 “Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and YOU WILL FIND REST FOR YOUR SOULS.
30 For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”
I agree with what you and Gideon have said. I'd like to add that the yoke for oxen was made of wood and could be broken through rebellion - not a good idea. Also please note that the 'yoke of bondage' was made of iron. not even self will could break out of that one.