The double-standards of the preterist and why I left that system

[Pilgrimshope]

I just simply view the verse differently. Jesus talks about looking at the fig tree and seeing it blossom, reading the signs, and then says this generation shall not pass. Meaning the generation that witnesses these signs.

No matter how you try to interpret it, Jesus did NOT return in AD70. The elect were NOT gathered in AD70.

It’s alright that we disagree on not here to argue endlessly .

But technically you are the one interpreting

for instance I quoted this verse in the same sermon as the lord said it

“Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:34‬ ‭KJV‬‬

abut then you responded to it with this

“I just simply view the verse differently.”

and went on to interpret what would fit your argument . Then lol said I was interpreting things to fit mine ? ….I was just reading the whole statement and saying that you would have to remove that statement to make it fit no offense or anything

 

[SirSolaScriptura]

For me the Preterist point of view falls apart in that Jesus is not reigning physically in Jerusalem right now, nor has He returned yet. Because if that were so, we would have been Caught Up (Matthew 24:31).

 

[TMS]

Honestly research the subject to see that there are but three grand Schemes of Apocalyptic Interpretation that can be considered.
The 1st is that of the Praeterists; it relates most prophesy to the Jewish nation and old Roman Empire … originally propounded by the Jesuit Alcasar, and then adopted by Grotius … by Professor Moses Stuart in the United States of America, and by disciples in the German School in England …

“The 2nd is the Futurist Scheme; making the whole of the Apocalyptic Prophecy, (excepting perhaps the primary Vision and Letters to the Seven Churches,) to relate to things now future. first set forth by the Jesuit [Francisco] Ribera, at the end of the 16th century; and which in its main principle has been urged alike by Dr. S.R. Maitland, Mr. Burgh, the Oxford Tractator on Antichrist, and others, in our own times and era, not without considerable success …

The 3rd is called the Protestant continuous Historic Scheme of Interpretation; that which regards the Apocalypse as a prefiguration in detail of the chief events affecting the Church and Christendom, whether secular or ecclesiastical, from St. John’s time to the consummation: – a Scheme which, in regard of its particular application of the symbols of Babylon and the Beast to Papal Rome and Popedom, was early embraced by the Waldenses, Wickliffites, and Hussites; then adopted with fuller light by the chief [Protestant] reformers, German, Swiss, French and English, of the 16th century; and transmitted downwards, even to the present time.

1) The Preterist School sees most of the prophecies being fulfilled in the past in the events surrounding the destruction of Jerusalem and the pagan Roman Empire;
2) The Futurist School sees most of the prophecies in Revelation – from chapter 4 onward – as applying to events yet future; and
3) The Historicist School sees the book of Revelation as largely predictive of actual events to occur throughout the history of Christianity from the time of John until the return of Jesus Christ.

The Historicist School contained the viewpoint of almost all Protestant Reformers from the Reformation into the 19th century. History clearly shows that both the Preterist and Futurist schools were definitely put forth by Jesuit scholars in their earnest attempts to divert the unanimous Protestant application of Daniel’s “little horn” prophecy and Revelation’s “beast” prediction to the rise and work of Papal Rome.

2Ti 4:3-4
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Will you follow the fables of futurism and preterism????

 

[HeIsHere]

“Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:34‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Exactly and how many times is "you" in the passage.
There is actually no room for interpretation.

 

[HeIsHere]

Will you follow the fables of futurism and preterism????

Jesus stated "you" I believe him.

 

[GaryA]

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...gh-the-tribulation.212413/page-8#post-5152528

 

[TMS]

I believe Jesus was talking to Israel.

Referring to Jerusalem....
Mat 23:38-39
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. 39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Jesus stated "you" I believe him.

Israel was left desolate and Paul explains it clearly with the olive tree and wild olive tree... Roms 11:22 KJV Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

They were cut off because they rejected Jesus. They continue to reject Jesus today.

Mat 24:3-5
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? 4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

The end of the world.... is that the last 200 years or last 50 years or last 5 years....???

200 years is the very end of 6000 years...

So let's not set dates but look at the signs... false christs and wars and disasters are happening all around today.

Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

This is not talking about the Israel nation because most do not hold up the name of Jesus.

But those that do, will be hated and those that did were hated.

See how it can apply to the past present and future. Many were killed in the dark ages for holding firm to the name of Jesus.

If you place all the prophecies in the past or the distant future it has no relevance in your life.

True ... some have been fulfilled but some are present and very close

Jesus has given them so we are ready for His return.

 

[Komentaja]

Exactly and how many times is "you" in the passage.
There is actually no room for interpretation.

Bad argument. Paul says 'we' when referencing the resurrection in 1 Thess 4:15-17 does that mean the resurrection already occured and Paul was apart of it?

The end of the age in Matthew 24 is the same end of the age in Matthew 13, when the wheat is separated from the tares, which happens in the end, not AD70.

 

[HeIsHere]

Bad argument. Paul says 'we' when referencing the resurrection in 1 Thess 4:15-17 does that mean the resurrection already occured and Paul was apart of it?

The end of the age in Matthew 24 is the same end of the age in Matthew 13, when the wheat is separated from the tares, which happens in the end, not AD70.

I'll go with the words of Jesus..... shortly, quickly, at hand, at the door, there will be some standing here..
All you have is disbelief against His words.

 

[HeIsHere]

I believe Jesus was talking to Israel.

Referring to Jerusalem....
Mat 23:38-39
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. 39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.



Israel was left desolate and Paul explains it clearly with the olive tree and wild olive tree... Roms 11:22 KJV Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

They were cut off because they rejected Jesus. They continue to reject Jesus today.

Mat 24:3-5
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? 4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

The end of the world.... is that the last 200 years or last 50 years or last 5 years....???

200 years is the very end of 6000 years...

So let's not set dates but look at the signs... false christs and wars and disasters are happening all around today.

Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

This is not talking about the Israel nation because most do not hold up the name of Jesus.

But those that do, will be hated and those that did were hated.

See how it can apply to the past present and future. Many were killed in the dark ages for holding firm to the name of Jesus.

If you place all the prophecies in the past or the distant future it has no relevance in your life.

True ... some have been fulfilled but some are present and very close

Jesus has given them so we are ready for His return.

Of course there are some things that recur because they tie into the the nature of man, but there is one fulfillment of prophecy and it always centers around Christ Jesus specifically and consequences that relate directly to Him.

Like "we shall have no other king but Caesar."
#129

 

[Komentaja]

I'll go with the words of Jesus..... shortly, quickly, at hand, at the door, there will be some standing here..
All you have is disbelief against His words.

You can keep repeating that till the cows come home, without never actually addressing the issues. I have answered how this generation can be explained in a future sense, the generation that sees these signs. No problem.

Now can you explain why Paul says "WE" when talking about the rapture/resurrection in 1 Thess 4:15-17 ? Did that also happen already cause Paul uses the word "we"? The same argument you used for "You" in Matthew 24. Very bad arguments.

None of the Bible applies to us, none of the Bible is written to us, its just to the Thessalonians and Galatians, don't worry about it.

 

[HeIsHere]

You can keep repeating that till the cows come home, without never actually addressing the issues. I have answered how this generation can be explained in a future sense, the generation that sees these signs. No problem.

Now can you explain why Paul says "WE" when talking about the rapture/resurrection in 1 Thess 4:15-17 ? Did that also happen already cause Paul uses the word "we"? The same argument you used for "You" in Matthew 24. Very bad arguments.

None of the Bible applies to us, none of the Bible is written to us, its just to the Thessalonians and Galatians, don't worry about it.

Scripture was written for us but not to us.

If he wrote "we" then he meant "we"

Not sure why that is so hard to understand and it is not a bad argument to actually go with what is written.

Believe as you will, but as far as I am concerned you are moving away from what the Bible clearly states to a futurist view of 2000+ years which is nonsensical in light of the very words of Christ Jesus.
The Book of Revelation was written prior to 70 AD to the churches at the time, and I think there is plenty of external and internal evidence to support this.

His words stand and everything has to fit with Him, not Tim LaHaye.

 

[Cameron143]

Is there a relationship between Deuteronomy and Revelation?

 

[Komentaja]

Scripture was written for us but not to us.

If he wrote "we" then he meant "we"

Not sure why that is so hard to understand and it is not a bad argument to actually go with what is written.

Believe as you will, but as far as I am concerned you are moving away from what the Bible clearly states to a futurist view of 2000+ years which is nonsensical in light of the very words of Christ Jesus.
The Book of Revelation was written prior to 70 AD to the churches at the time, and I think there is plenty of external and internal evidence to support this.

His words stand and everything has to fit with Him, not Tim LaHaye.

I have no desire for any of this to be future. I just simply do not see a lot of it fulfilled in AD70.

I can read about how preterists are trying their best to invent something to fit the two witnesses for example. But the fact is, no two individuals (or church if you want to make it symbolically to be about that) was "dead" for 3,5 days and then rose again and people were afraid seeing it.

 

[Psalm1]

People who accuse of "replacement" do not understand the covenant God made with Abraham.

People who are "replacement" can not unpack romans 9,10,11.

What can they possibly do with it?

 

[Psalm1]

Honestly research the subject to see that there are but three grand Schemes of Apocalyptic Interpretation that can be considered.
The 1st is that of the Praeterists; it relates most prophesy to the Jewish nation and old Roman Empire … originally propounded by the Jesuit Alcasar, and then adopted by Grotius … by Professor Moses Stuart in the United States of America, and by disciples in the German School in England …

“The 2nd is the Futurist Scheme; making the whole of the Apocalyptic Prophecy, (excepting perhaps the primary Vision and Letters to the Seven Churches,) to relate to things now future. first set forth by the Jesuit [Francisco] Ribera, at the end of the 16th century; and which in its main principle has been urged alike by Dr. S.R. Maitland, Mr. Burgh, the Oxford Tractator on Antichrist, and others, in our own times and era, not without considerable success …

The 3rd is called the Protestant continuous Historic Scheme of Interpretation; that which regards the Apocalypse as a prefiguration in detail of the chief events affecting the Church and Christendom, whether secular or ecclesiastical, from St. John’s time to the consummation: – a Scheme which, in regard of its particular application of the symbols of Babylon and the Beast to Papal Rome and Popedom, was early embraced by the Waldenses, Wickliffites, and Hussites; then adopted with fuller light by the chief [Protestant] reformers, German, Swiss, French and English, of the 16th century; and transmitted downwards, even to the present time.

1) The Preterist School sees most of the prophecies being fulfilled in the past in the events surrounding the destruction of Jerusalem and the pagan Roman Empire;
2) The Futurist School sees most of the prophecies in Revelation – from chapter 4 onward – as applying to events yet future; and
3) The Historicist School sees the book of Revelation as largely predictive of actual events to occur throughout the history of Christianity from the time of John until the return of Jesus Christ.

The Historicist School contained the viewpoint of almost all Protestant Reformers from the Reformation into the 19th century. History clearly shows that both the Preterist and Futurist schools were definitely put forth by Jesuit scholars in their earnest attempts to divert the unanimous Protestant application of Daniel’s “little horn” prophecy and Revelation’s “beast” prediction to the rise and work of Papal Rome.

2Ti 4:3-4
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Will you follow the fables of futurism and preterism????

Show us where the mark of the beast ever happened.
The flying scorpions and hailstones of fire.
Is satan bound?
And stop calling us bible hounds evil.
Saying we do not use a bible, and are tutored by "jesuits" is a lie.
So stop your lies and open a bible

 

[Psalm1]

Scripture was written for us but not to us.

If he wrote "we" then he meant "we"

Not sure why that is so hard to understand and it is not a bad argument to actually go with what is written.

Believe as you will, but as far as I am concerned you are moving away from what the Bible clearly states to a futurist view of 2000+ years which is nonsensical in light of the very words of Christ Jesus.
The Book of Revelation was written prior to 70 AD to the churches at the time, and I think there is plenty of external and internal evidence to support this.

His words stand and everything has to fit with Him, not Tim LaHaye.

Israel becoming a nation is a huge problem for your doctrine.
You quote church father's that saw Israel scattered.
IOW, THEIR prism was clouded and you picked it up and pretend it is crystal clear.

 

[TMS]

Of course there are some things that recur because they tie into the the nature of man, but there is one fulfillment of prophecy and it always centers around Christ Jesus specifically and consequences that relate directly to Him.

Like "we shall have no other king but Caesar."
#129

When Jesus came the first time they (Israel) mostly did not accept the long desired Messiah because of their wrong understanding of what the Messiah would look like.

When Jesus comes the second time the devil will aim to decieve the world into looking for the wrong type of Messiah again.

False teachings are running wild about an Earthly king...
Setting up an earthly kingdom...

2Ti 4:3-4
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Jesus was looking at Jerusalem and it's destruction... no doubt what happened in 70ad ... but then the disciples ask 2 or 3 questions not realizing the vast time between.
Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

When will the temple be destroyed?
What are the signs of thy coming?
And signs of the end of the world?

Jesus answers them all.

Mat 24:12-14
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

These verses apply to the past, present and future.

Not just the past.

 

[MrE]

When Jesus came the first time they (Israel) mostly did not accept the long desired Messiah because of their wrong understanding of what the Messiah would look like.

When Jesus comes the second time the devil will aim to decieve the world into looking for the wrong type of Messiah again.

False teachings are running wild about an Earthly king...
Setting up an earthly kingdom...

2Ti 4:3-4
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Jesus was looking at Jerusalem and it's destruction... no doubt what happened in 70ad ... but then the disciples ask 2 or 3 questions not realizing the vast time between.
Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

When will the temple be destroyed?
What are the signs of thy coming?
And signs of the end of the world?

Jesus answers them all.

Mat 24:12-14
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

These verses apply to the past, present and future.

Not just the past.

Except he already came "a second time." You might recall that he died and was placed in a tomb with a large stone sealing the entrance...... then, a few days later......

Now after the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb. Suddenly there was a severe earthquake, for an angel of the Lord1 descending from heaven came and rolled away the stone and sat on it. His appearance was like lightning, and his clothes were white as snow. The guards were shaken and became like dead men because they were so afraid of him. But the angel said to the women, “Do not be afraid; I know that you are looking for Jesus, who was crucified. He is not here, for he has been raised, just as he said. Come and see the place where he was lying. Then go quickly and tell his disciples, ‘He has been raised from the dead. He is going ahead of you into Galilee. You will see him there.’ Listen, I have told you!” So they left the tomb quickly, with fear and great joy, and ran to tell his disciples. But Jesus met them, saying, “Greetings!” They came to him, held on to his feet and worshiped him. Then Jesus said to them, “Do not be afraid. Go and tell my brothers to go to Galilee. They will see me there.”

The story is then picked up again in the book of Acts>>>

I wrote the former account, Theophilus, about all that Jesus began to do and teach until the day he was taken up to heaven, after he had given orders by the Holy Spirit to the apostles he had chosen. To the same apostles also, after his suffering, he presented himself alive with many convincing proofs. He was seen by them over a forty-day period and spoke about matters concerning the kingdom of God.

 

[Psalm1]

Except he already came "a second time." You might recall that he died and was placed in a tomb with a large stone sealing the entrance...... then, a few days later......

Now after the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb. Suddenly there was a severe earthquake, for an angel of the Lord1 descending from heaven came and rolled away the stone and sat on it. His appearance was like lightning, and his clothes were white as snow. The guards were shaken and became like dead men because they were so afraid of him. But the angel said to the women, “Do not be afraid; I know that you are looking for Jesus, who was crucified. He is not here, for he has been raised, just as he said. Come and see the place where he was lying. Then go quickly and tell his disciples, ‘He has been raised from the dead. He is going ahead of you into Galilee. You will see him there.’ Listen, I have told you!” So they left the tomb quickly, with fear and great joy, and ran to tell his disciples. But Jesus met them, saying, “Greetings!” They came to him, held on to his feet and worshiped him. Then Jesus said to them, “Do not be afraid. Go and tell my brothers to go to Galilee. They will see me there.”

The story is then picked up again in the book of Acts>>>

I wrote the former account, Theophilus, about all that Jesus began to do and teach until the day he was taken up to heaven, after he had given orders by the Holy Spirit to the apostles he had chosen. To the same apostles also, after his suffering, he presented himself alive with many convincing proofs. He was seen by them over a forty-day period and spoke about matters concerning the kingdom of God.

All pretrib and premils believe all of that.