Making a case for women in leadership

[Dino246]

God is the one who gave out the punishments to each one involved in that sin. He is the one who seems to put the blame more on Eve than Adam, So your criticism is of Him, not the people who believe what He said.

Here’s what I know about God: He says….
!
My thoughts are NOT your thoughts, nor are my ways your ways, says the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth,, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.”

God is the source of all wisdom and we are made of “dust”. He can read hearts and minds, we can’t even begin to understand such things.
God is never wrong. We are in no position to question or criticize His judgements.

Wow. Did you actually read Genesis 3 before writing your post, or did you rely on your faulty memory?

There is far more said to the serpent and the nan than to the woman. The stated consequences seem far more serious for the serpent and the man than for the woman. If that weren’t enough, the sin is attributed to Adam, not to Eve.

Finally, the statements God made in each case are consequences, not “punishments”,

 

[Blain]

Wow. Did you actually read Genesis 3 before writing your post, or did you rely on your faulty memory?

There is far more said to the serpent and the nan than to the woman. The stated consequences seem far more serious for the serpent and the man than for the woman. If that weren’t enough, the sin is attributed to Adam, not to Eve.

Finally, the statements God made in each case are consequences, not “punishments”,

if I recall God even told the serpent that it would be from the women that Jesus would come that the snake would bite his heel meaning Jesus was going to stomp the devil. the seed of sin comes from man after all not women women only bear the seed the seed of sin comes from man
in fact it is for that reason that a virgin would bare the son of man

 

[Beckworth]

We're all to spread the gospel whether men or women. Lots of service for God are open to both men and women.

The positions of authority within the church are for men though, not women. But women aren't any less because of that - they just have different function.

But Satan works hard to make women feel as if they're less to try to destroy the hierarchy God had set. But if you look at the Trinity of God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, God the Father is the highest authority. You don't ever see Jesus or the Holy Spirit try to usurp the Father's position. Also, all the 2/3 of angels that remained with God remain in their position in the heirarchy as well.

Jesus, the Holy Spirit and the angels that remained - none of them have any problems with their position and not being the #1 in authority. Only women seem to have that problem with Satan making them feel inferior.

I personally don't have that problem. I'm pretty independent, but I can do the work I'm called to without feeling inferior about my place in the heirarchy.


🚟

After reading your post, it just occurred to me that, this is the same strategy that Satan used on Eve in the garden. He made her feel like God was “holding her back”. He said God didn’t want her to eat because He didn’t want her to be as wise as He was. He appealed to her pride and made her feel DISSATISFIED with her position. Isn’t that how women react today—dissatisfied with the position in which God has placed them. Come to think of it, that was the problem with the devil and his angels who rebelled against God in heaven. Jude 6 tells us the angels did not “keep their proper domain, but left their own abode.” Many women today are still trying…to leave their proper domain. The devil has not changed his tactics. The problem with us is that we are “ignorant of his devices.”

 

[JohnDB]

Well,
I can tell you that we are a dying race and species at the moment.

Unless industrialized societies begin having women birth 3-4 babies and raise them to adulthood....we are cooked and women will inherit a dying society.

There's the truth. In 3 generations there won't be anymore industrialized societies where women can rule.

Sorry but that's just reality. The non industrialized societies are flooding the industrialized ones and everyone is complaining about such things as Muslim sharia law and the animalistic behaviors of those from Africa and South&Central America.

There's your game....fix that!

 

[Mem]

Someone finally articulated the notion that I've always held!

 

[Beckworth]

Wow. Did you actually read Genesis 3 before writing your post, or did you rely on your faulty memory?

There is far more said to the serpent and the nan than to the woman. The stated consequences seem far more serious for the serpent and the man than for the woman. If that weren’t enough, the sin is attributed to Adam, not to Eve.

Finally, the statements God made in each case are consequences, not “punishments”,

Is it God’s fault that the misogynistic bias of men has resulted in translations that reinforce the subjugation of women? Language changes over time, and context is lost. That’s true for much of Scripture, and it is not anyone’s fault. The context is a personal letter, not a detailed reference tome.

It sounds like you don’t believe God has the power to protect His word from Corruption. If what you say is true about men’s bias, then there could be many mistakes in God’s word. If that is true, then we don’t have a book that we can trust. If the “bias of men has resulted in translations “ that lie about what is written about women and God’s order, then how can I be sure “ that the bias of men” has not changed what God said about marriage and divorce, and sexual sins, and murder, and stealing, and 100 other subjects on which God has spoken. I can’t be sure—no one can. We would not be able to trust the Bible as the infallible word of God. And worse, God has allowed His word to become corrupted—at best altered. I don’t think so.

 

[Dino246]

After reading your post, it just occurred to me that, this is the same strategy that Satan used on Eve in the garden. He made her feel like God was “holding her back”. He said God didn’t want her to eat because He didn’t want her to be as wise as He was. He appealed to her pride and made her feel DISSATISFIED with her position. Isn’t that how women react today—dissatisfied with the position in which God has placed them. Come to think of it, that was the problem with the devil and his angels who rebelled against God in heaven. Jude 6 tells us the angels did not “keep their proper domain, but left their own abode.” Many women today are still trying…to leave their proper domain. The devil has not changed his tactics. The problem with us is that we are “ignorant of his devices.”

If God truly did not want women in any leadership role, He would not have used Deborah, Hannah, Chloe, Prisca, or Junia in such roles. He would not have affirmed the importance of women in a patriarchal society. He would have not have allowed His word to have all the “restrictive “ passages couched in difficult-to-reconcile terminology. He would not have stated that male and female are equal in Christ.

But He did.

 

[Dino246]

It sounds like you don’t believe God has the power to protect His word from Corruption. If what you say is true about men’s bias, then there could be many mistakes in God’s word. If that is true, then we don’t have a book that we can trust. If the “bias of men has resulted in translations “ that lie about what is written about women and God’s order, then how can I be sure “ that the bias of men” has not changed what God said about marriage and divorce, and sexual sins, and murder, and stealing, and 100 other subjects on which God has spoken. I can’t be sure—no one can. We would not be able to trust the Bible as the infallible word of God. And worse, God has allowed His word to become corrupted—at best altered. I don’t think so.

As for the matter of corruption, God indeed has the power, but that doesn't mean He has stopped every attempt to do so. The Mormon and Jehovah's Witness "bibles" testify to that.

As for the rest, it is always the responsibility of the reader to consider the word in light of its context, whether textual, cultural, or historical. Too many Christians read the Bible as though it was written in English directly to them as individuals, and misuse it thereby. You can trust the Bible, but that doesn't mean your interpretation of it is correct. Again, most Christians believe their interpretations are correct, and consider anyone who doesn't agree to be suspect at best and an unbeliever or heretic at worst.

 

[Edith]

Hi here
I believe no woman wants to top a man. However God calls and when He does there's no way you can say no.
he calls to different ministries and only He determines who He wants and where He wants them. so if someone says God has called me respect that.

As a woman in ministry it is so difficult to get the breakthrough with all the men trying to belittle you probably because they feel threatened which is very funny because no two ministries are same. Because I was constantly bullied by my mates. I told my pastor politely if you refuse to use me after my studies I will just go serve somewhere else. so he let me do that which God called me to (evangelism and discipleship) and now he is happy with my commitment and how I carry it out. He can rest knowing I have things planned out in evangelism and discipleship.

 

[lrs68]

The Churches that Paul set up were set up in line with how the Jewish Synagogues were structured. They were designed to be led by men. Paul even clarified that it was his... let's repeat this... it was his DESIRE that women didn't preach.

Now, that doesn't change the fact that man is the head of the family, home, marriage, etc.

I have taken video footage of the people who you generally see when someone like Joyce M is preaching. About 90% women. I have no issue with that. A woman can talk to women better than man can in general matters. And if a woman can lead millions of women to God then it is 100% ordained. They are saved. They will be going to Heaven. No if ands or buts about it.

 

[Beckworth]

Luke 4 verses 18-19 The Spirit of the Lord is on Me, because He has anointed Me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent Me to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to release the oppressed, 19to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.

If God truly did not want women in any leadership role, He would not have used Deborah, Hannah, Chloe, Prisca, or Junia in such roles. He would not have affirmed the importance of women in a patriarchal society. He would have not have allowed His word to have all the “restrictive “ passages couched in difficult-to-reconcile terminology. He would not have stated that male and female are equal in Christ.

But He did.

it’s amazing to me that God can speak so plainly on women—saying, “Let your women keep silent in the churches, for THEY ARE NOT PERMITTED TO SPEAK” and “ It is SHAMEFUL FOR WOMEN TO SPEAK IN CHURCH”, and yet, you still think God really didn’t mean what He says

Hi here
I believe no woman wants to top a man. However God calls and when He does there's no way you can say no.
he calls to different ministries and only He determines who He wants and where He wants them. so if someone says God has called me respect that.

As a woman in ministry it is so difficult to get the breakthrough with all the men trying to belittle you probably because they feel threatened which is very funny because no two ministries are same. Because I was constantly bullied by my mates. I told my pastor politely if you refuse to use me after my studies I will just go serve somewhere else. so he let me do that which God called me to (evangelism and discipleship) and now he is happy with my commitment and how I carry it out. He can rest knowing I have things planned out in evangelism and discipleship.

I have a problem believing God would write “ women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak..It is shameful for women to speak in the church”” and then go against His own word and “call” you to preach?? Why would God do that? I mean, can I believe what God says in the Bible if He says one thing and does the opposite? Is God two-faced? A liar?? This would make me feel that I can’t trust what He says.

God has said, “whoever does not believe will be condemned”. So can we expect God to invite atheists to come on in to heaven? Wouldn’t that be unfair to the people who believed what He said in Mark 16:16. He is an unbeliever, but he gets the same reward I get for being a believer?

What about the women who have obeyed His instructions in 1 Cioribthuabsv14:34 and have refrained from preaching because God said to; Aren’t they likely to feel angry with God because they believed what He said in the Bible but then He let you do it anyway??

The Bible says that God is no respecter of persons—- but if what you say is true, I guess He is.

Can you explain why the Holy Spirit would write “women keep silent in the churches” and then God “call” You to preach? It makes it sound like God and the Holy Spirit are in disagreement about this.

 

[Beckworth]

Not authority over men just equal to, if the verse above is to be believed and we are all equal then it shold be that way in all aspects of the faith. my friend doesn't teach women being over men just equal to them.

I’m sorry, but the order given in 1 Cor. 11 does not show women to be “equal to” men. The Holy Spirit plainly says that man is woman’s head. That is not equal. Also, God told Eve in the garden that her husband would “rule over” her. That is not equality. Galatians 3:28 is talking about spiritual equality—IN CHRIST. Spiritually, we are all of equal value to God. God said He is no respecter of persons. What does that mean? It means that God loves us all “equally”; it means that God loves men, women, black, white, Jew, Gentile “equally. It means that men, women, black, white, Jews and gentiles are all of great value “equally.” One person is not more important or valuable than another, one is not LOVED more than another. God’s salvation is “equal” for everyone, regardless of gender or race, or nationality. He hasn’t given salvation to men, but not to women; to Jews but not gentiles; to whites, but not blacks. “IN CHRIST” we are ALL equal.

However, that does not remove the fact that God has an “order” for things here on earth. He even has an “order” for things in heaven. Don’t forget He said that God is the “head” of Christ. Michael is an ARCH angel. Who knows what kinds of “order” God has in heaven. In Revelation there are “.elders” in heaven. Galatians 3:28 does not change God’s order of God over Christ and man over woman. Galatians 3:28 does not change what God told Eve in the garden. Just as God gave men a different role in the family than the role He gave to women in the family, so God has given men and women different roles in the church. That doesn’t destroy their equality in Christ. The fact that God is the Father, and The Head, and Christ is the “Son”, does not violate God’s equality (Galatians 3:28) any more than man over woman destroys God’s equality.

 

[Blain]

I’m sorry, but the order given in 1 Cor. 11 does not show women to be “equal to” men. The Holy Spirit plainly says that man is woman’s head. That is not equal. Also, God told Eve in the garden that her husband would “rule over” her. That is not equality. Galatians 3:28 is talking about spiritual equality—IN CHRIST. Spiritually, we are all of equal value to God. God said He is no respecter of persons. What does that mean? It means that God loves us all “equally”; it means that God loves men, women, black, white, Jew, Gentile “equally. It means that men, women, black, white, Jews and gentiles are all of great value “equally.” One person is not more important or valuable than another, one is not LOVED more than another. God’s salvation is “equal” for everyone, regardless of gender or race, or nationality. He hasn’t given salvation to men, but not to women; to Jews but not gentiles; to whites, but not blacks. “IN CHRIST” we are ALL equal.

However, that does not remove the fact that God has an “order” for things here on earth. He even has an “order” for things in heaven. Don’t forget He said that God is the “head” of Christ. Michael is an ARCH angel. Who knows what kinds of “order” God has in heaven. In Revelation there are “.elders” in heaven. Galatians 3:28 does not change God’s order of God over Christ and man over woman. Galatians 3:28 does not change what God told Eve in the garden. Just as God gave men a different role in the family than the role He gave to women in the family, so God has given men and women different roles in the church. That doesn’t destroy their equality in Christ. The fact that God is the Father, and The Head, and Christ is the “Son”, does not violate God’s equality (Galatians 3:28) any more than man over woman destroys God’s equality.

Do you believe the verse or not? if there is neither jew nor gentirle nor man nor women in Christ then Christ being the head over even man should be the decider not our interporetation of scripture not to mention if this verse is true then that means what paul said was spoken to the issue of the church at the time where women were indeed trying to have authority over men at the time look at the historical backgrounds the issues in the church are what he was speaking on

Again do some research on the historical background of what was going on in the church

 

[Snackersmom]

Can you explain why the Holy Spirit would write “women keep silent in the churches” and then God “call” You to preach? It makes it sound like God and the Holy Spirit are in disagreement about this.

Perhaps @Edith does all her preaching outside of an official church assembly, from what I'm told that makes teaching and rebuking men completely permissible! Yayyyyyy!!!! 😃😊.

 

[Blain]

Perhaps @Edith does all her preaching outside of an official church assembly, from what I'm told that makes teaching and rebuking men completely permissible! Yayyyyyy!!!! 😃😊.

The wole women keeping silent in church had to do with what was going on in the church at the time anyways if God wanted women to be silent he would not have used women the way he did in the ot one was even a judge that is a postion of authroity. so it seems to me that if you look at that and also with what was going on in the church at the time the context seem to say that it is what paul was talking about. but I think this subject is a tricky one we need to look at more than just one verse to understand the subject we cannot take one or two verse and make a doctrine out of it but then again maybe I am wrong but God is no respecter of persons as far as I am concnered

 

[Blain]

Hi here
I believe no woman wants to top a man. However God calls and when He does there's no way you can say no.
he calls to different ministries and only He determines who He wants and where He wants them. so if someone says God has called me respect that.

As a woman in ministry it is so difficult to get the breakthrough with all the men trying to belittle you probably because they feel threatened which is very funny because no two ministries are same. Because I was constantly bullied by my mates. I told my pastor politely if you refuse to use me after my studies I will just go serve somewhere else. so he let me do that which God called me to (evangelism and discipleship) and now he is happy with my commitment and how I carry it out. He can rest knowing I have things planned out in evangelism and discipleship.

 

[Snackersmom]

The wole women keeping silent in church had to do with what was going on in the church at the time anyways if God wanted women to be silent he would not have used women the way he did in the ot one was even a judge that is a postion of authroity. so it seems to me that if you look at that and also with what was going on in the church at the time the context seem to say that it is what paul was talking about. but I think this subject is a tricky one we need to look at more than just one verse to understand the subject we cannot take one or two verse and make a doctrine out of it but then again maybe I am wrong but God is no respecter of persons as far as I am concnered

Haha thanks Blain, I get what you are saying but I was being sarcastic because @Beckworth was being so rude and judgemental towards @Edith . 😉

 

[Dino246]

it’s amazing to me that God can speak so plainly on women—saying, “Let your women keep silent in the churches, for THEY ARE NOT PERMITTED TO SPEAK” and “ It is SHAMEFUL FOR WOMEN TO SPEAK IN CHURCH”, and yet, you still think God really didn’t mean what He says

I have a problem believing God would write “ women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak..It is shameful for women to speak in the church”” and then go against His own word and “call” you to preach?? Why would God do that? I mean, can I believe what God says in the Bible if He says one thing and does the opposite? Is God two-faced? A liar?? This would make me feel that I can’t trust what He says.

I too have a problem believing God would write, "women keep silent in the churches..." when three chapters earlier, He specifically permitted them to speak in the churches (11:13-16). 1 Cor 14:35 cannot apply to all women, because many are not married and therefore could not ask their husbands at home (and many husbands then and now are not believers).

As I stated earlier in this thread, I believe 14:34-35 are actually a quotation from a letter sent by the Corinthians to Paul (it is referenced several times in Paul's letter). This theory makes sense of verse 34, because there actually is no place in the Law requiring women to be in submission (and Paul would have known that). It makes sense of verse 35, as carnal male believers would likely overlook a significant proportion of the female congregation. Finally, it makes sense of verse 36, because Paul's surprised reaction makes no sense if the preceding words were his own. "Did the word of God come only to you?" makes perfect sense as a rebuke to such confused men, and no sense otherwise!

God has said, “whoever does not believe will be condemned”. So can we expect God to invite atheists to come on in to heaven? Wouldn’t that be unfair to the people who believed what He said in Mark 16:16. He is an unbeliever, but he gets the same reward I get for being a believer?

Red herring.

The Bible says that God is no respecter of persons—- but if what you say is true, I guess He is.

You have this exactly backwards.

What about the women who have obeyed His instructions in 1 Cioribthuabsv14:34 and have refrained from preaching because God said to; Aren’t they likely to feel angry with God because they believed what He said in the Bible

Along with all the other people who interpreted His word incorrectly, they will repent for their error and not charge Him with wrongdoing.

but then He let you do it anyway??

You do realize I'm a man, don't you?

 

[Blain]

Haha thanks Blain, I get what you are saying but I was being sarcastic because @Beckworth was being so rude and judgemental towards @Edith . 😉

Ah I see yeah sarcasm usually goes right over my head but yeah I don't appreciate the rudeness even if one disagrees with someone being rude is not warrented and personally I think we should all be loving and respectful to another even if we dsiagree. the signs of a mature Christian is being able to be respectful in debates regardless if one does not like the stance of another if one cannot be respectful and loving even in heated debates they should not be debating

 

[Edith]

Tha

Everyone knows Pauls words on women pastors or rather a women speaking or teaching in the church and at face value this would seem pretty clear however the context of the verse has to do with the issues that was going on in the church at the time but what really got me thinking was this right here

Galatians 3:28 states that in Christ Jesus, there is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor male nor female, for all are one. This verse emphasizes the equality and unity of believers in Christ, transcending traditional social and cultural divisions. It highlights that these categories, while still present in human society,
are not determinants of value or significance within the Christian community and so this verse got me thinking if this is to be true then why do we take Pauls words at face value he would be contradicting the himself
unless of course he was speaking in regards to what was going on in the church at the time then it would make sense not to mention what about the women who he even baosted about who ministered to people such as Junia?

This one verse just doesn't make sense to me if indeed women are subhuman in the church and Jesus himself never forbid women of such a thing he never even addressed it
Would Jesus forbid the gospel being preached by a women?[/QUOT

Thank you dear. The message of the Resurrection was given to women. So I spread it shamelessly. Thank for Advocating for us.