Understanding God’s election

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HeIsHere

Well-known member
May 21, 2022
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I hope that you are not one of those “age of accountability” posters that I have noticed from time to time. I say this because I see nothing in scripture which indicates that age plays any part in salvation. I do, however, see scripture which indicates that we are saved by grace alone.
Grace in scripture is bestowed upon individuals regardless of their actions or worthiness, highlighting God's boundless love and mercy not something earned, that is essential for spiritual growth and salvation.
I believe that anyone regardless of age (1 min – many years) may receive God's grace. However, God owes His grace to nobody!
People on here have told me people are born condemned.
Is this some kind of selective grace then?
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
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People on here have told me people are born condemned.
Is this some kind of selective grace then?
Does Rom 9 teach that God has mercy and compassion on all human beings w/o exception? Or does Rom 9 teach that God dispenses the graces of mercy and compassion at his own discretion? Or when Jesus said that he gives life to whomover he wishes, is he not saying that the gift of eternal life is his prerogative and given at his discretion?
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
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Scripture explicitly says people are condemned because they do not believe. Do you think people are born believers???
Not only are sinners not born believers but they're not born with any heart for God. They hate spiritual knowledge, wisdom, understanding, God the Father and the Son of God.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Not only are sinners not born believers but they're not born with any heart for God. They
hate spiritual knowledge, wisdom, understanding, God the Father and the Son of God.
Yes, Scripture does spell this out in many ways over quite a few verses throughout both the Old Testament and
the New Testament, many times in the very words of Jesus Christ Himself, yet we still have those who deny it.
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
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I believe there's a passage somewhere in the bible that teaches that all sinners by nature are objects of God's wrath. So, yes, all who do not have faith in Christ are indeed condemned already in the here and now!
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
4,259
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Australia
This is true. But those under the old covenant were required to keep the law as a stimulation for keeping the covenant. Is this true under the new covenant?
The law is central to both.

The difference is that in the new, God said He will write it on in our hearts and minds.

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Knowing that the house of Israel is now anyone the believes in Jesus

Gal 3:28-29
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Rom 2:26-29
26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? 27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law? 28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
63,862
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I believe there's a passage somewhere in the bible that teaches that all sinners by nature are objects of God's wrath.
So, yes, all who do not have faith in Christ are indeed condemned already in the here and now!

From: John 8 verse 34; 2 Peter 2 verse 19a; Galatians 4 verse 8; Romans 7 verse 14; Ephesians 2 verse 3b; Romans 6 verse 6 ~ “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin.” They are slaves of corruption. When you did not know God, you were enslaved to those that by nature are not gods. You were of the flesh, sold under sin. We were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. Our old self was crucified so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin.
 

rogerg

Well-known member
Jul 13, 2021
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The difference is that in the new, God said He will write it on in our hearts and minds.

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Just to be clear, the law in view is the law of Spirit of life in Christ Jesus, not OT law - it is Law unto liberty and life, not death. You've omitted verses that complete the doctrine:

[Heb 10:14, 16-18 KJV]
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; ...
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. ...
16 This [is] the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18 Now where remission of these [is, there is] no more offering for sin.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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The law is central to both.

The difference is that in the new, God said He will write it on in our hearts and minds.

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Knowing that the house of Israel is now anyone the believes in Jesus

Gal 3:28-29
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Rom 2:26-29
26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? 27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law? 28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Christ is the surety of the new covenant. Perfect obedience was the guarantee of the old covenant. This difference highlights the difference between grace and works.
What the law could not do because of sinful flesh, Christ accomplished by living a perfect life that His righteousness could be imputed to us, and substitutionary death wherein God's wrath towards us has been satisfied.
What place does the law have for an individual who has been made the righteousness of God and who has been reconciled to God and who enjoys peace with God?

Why would anyone want to relate to God on the basis of their behavior? Even our purest and most holy offerings have elements of sin that render them no better than filthy rags. Are you asking God to accept filthy rags as your righteousness? It is little wonder the Apostle Paul said that he wanted to be found having no righteousness of his own WHICH IS OF THE LAW, but the righteousness WHICH IS OF GOD BY FAITH.

The law can't help you other than to point you to Christ. It's not your fault that the flesh is weak. But recognizing this, you should submit to Christ. He said take my YOKE upon you, and not take my LAW upon you.
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
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You should swear an oath to God that you'll spend a few years with your nose deeply buried in the Wisdom Books of the bible. You MIGHT learn a few things about wisdom, knowledge, understanding and prudence -- if it pleases the Lord.
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
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Scripture is dumb? You have a hit a new low. All the studying you brag about was for nothing.
Yeah, but you gotta remember: Studier is one of the SMART ELITES who was smart enough and wise enough to supposedly believe the gospel. He thinks his smarts is what makes the difference between him and non-believers. Not a whole lot of wisdom in that theory; so the megabytes of irony is that he's not nearly as wise or knowledgeable or smart as he thinks he is.
 

studier

Well-known member
Apr 18, 2024
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You should swear an oath to God that you'll spend a few years with your nose deeply buried in the Wisdom Books of the bible. You MIGHT learn a few things about wisdom, knowledge, understanding and prudence -- if it pleases the Lord.
NKJ Matt5:33-37 "Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord.' 34 "But I say to you, do not swear at all: neither by heaven, for it is God's throne; 35 "nor by the earth, for it is His footstool; nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. 36 "Nor shall you swear by your head, because you cannot make one hair white or black. 37 "But let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and your 'No,' 'No.' For whatever is more than these is from the evil one.

See! You are the evil one!
 

studier

Well-known member
Apr 18, 2024
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Yeah, but you gotta remember: Studier is one of the SMART ELITES who was smart enough and wise enough to supposedly believe the gospel. He thinks his smarts is what makes the difference between him and non-believers. Not a whole lot of wisdom in that theory; so the megabytes of irony is that he's not nearly as wise or knowledgeable or smart as he thinks he is.
Irony indeed...
 

studier

Well-known member
Apr 18, 2024
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668
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Yeah, but you gotta remember: Studier is one of the SMART ELITES who was smart enough and wise enough to supposedly believe the gospel. He thinks his smarts is what makes the difference between him and non-believers. Not a whole lot of wisdom in that theory; so the megabytes of irony is that he's not nearly as wise or knowledgeable or smart as he thinks he is.
Funny, "elites" but my choice was made in a condition like this Ps34:18