Understanding God’s election

[Magenta]

John 3 verse 3 Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.”

Galatians 6 verse 15 For neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything. What counts is a new creation.

Romans 8 verse 9 If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.

 

[Rufus]

No the Son is foreordained that He is the image we would resemble as saved people.

Of course you didn't grasp that simple concept because it's straight forward in meaning and not twisted like man made doctrine.

You don't read too swell, do you? The text reads:

Rom 8:29-30
29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
NIV

So, Jesus is all the "those" in the passage, right? And since he must be, then you're interpreting the text as "Jesus whom God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son". And this makes perfectly good sense to you????

 

[Magenta]

You don't read too swell, do you? The text reads:

Rom 8:29-30-29 NIV For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness
of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those he predestined,
he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

So, Jesus is all the "those" in the passage, right? And since he must be, then you're interpreting the text as "Jesus whom God
foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son". And this makes perfectly good sense to you????

Romans 8 verse 29-30; Ephesians 1 verse 5 ~ Those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified. He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will.

 

[Magenta]

Psalm 58 verse 3 The wicked are estranged from the womb; the liars go astray from birth.

Psalm 14 verse 3
All have turned away, they have together become corrupt; there is no one who does good, not even one.

Psalm 51 verse 5 Surely I was brought forth in iniquity; I was sinful when my mother conceived me.

Psalm 52 verse 3 You love evil more than good, falsehood more than speaking truth. Selah

Psalm 53 verse 3
All have turned away, they have together become corrupt; there is no one who does good, not even one.

Isaiah 48 verse 8
You have never heard; you have never understood; for a long time your ears have not
been open. For I knew how deceitful you are; you have been called a rebel from birth.

Job 14 verse 4 Who can bring out clean from unclean? No one!

Job 15 verse 14
What is man, that he should be clean? and he which is born of a woman, that he should be righteous?

Proverbs 22 verse 15
Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.

John 3 verse 3 Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.”

Romans 3 verse 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Romans 5 verse 12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and
death through sin, so also death was passed on to all men, because all sinned.

Ecclesiastes 7 verse 20 Surely there is no righteous man on earth who does good and never sins.

Romans 3 verse 10 As it is written: “There is no one righteous, not even one.

Ephesians 2 verse 3 All of us also lived among them at one time, fulfilling the cravings of our flesh
and indulging its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature children of wrath.

Jeremiah 17 verse 9 The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?

1 John 1 verse 10 If we say we have not sinned, we make Him out to be a liar, and His word is not in us.

 

[Rufus]

The way I read you, and I don't seem to be alone, you've tipped the scales towards hatred. This goes well with your view of depravity. But God is love which is quite a statement and seemingly very foundational. And not all His love is covenantal but more so who He is. I don't see the Text saying God is hate so the harder you push the topic for whatever your point, FWIW, it comes across very imbalanced. I haven't looked too hard, but I doubt you'll find "holy" and "hate" (in any form) in a verse together describing God.

I really don't hitch myself to others but to what is said that seems to present Scripture properly.

Is God's love holy? Is God's character holy? Is God's nature holy? Is God in his essence holy? Then how could his hatred be anything but holy, since God HATES sin and the sinner!? Why don't you address Prov 11:1, 20 and explain to us how God hatred for the perverse in heart in v. 20 differs so radically from his hatred of dishonesty in v.1 -- keeping in mind that the same Hebrew word is used for hates/abhors/detests in both verses?

And, yes, all God's love toward his elect is covenantal in nature! To deny this is to deny that God's saints are in a covenant relationship with him. And this is the only kind of love that counts in terms of salvation. God is not in a covenant relationship with each and every person in the world, which is precisely why Jesus didn't pray for the "world" in John 17. And it also accounts for Jesus' condemning words to the lost in Mat 7:23! How could Jesus ever love anyone, in a filial sense, whom He has never known!?

And, of course, "I tipped the scales towards hatred" because all you FWers tipped to the other extreme -- love, love, love, love. So, when someone like me comes along and corrects that error of extremism, then it's natural for guys like you to project your own extremism, to which you're totally blind, onto me! I'm the bad guy for looking at and understanding scripture in a fair and balanced way.

 

[GWH]

Do you believe babies are born guilty, with inherited sin?

I believe babies are born selfish but innocent of sin until they attain the stage of moral accountability/conscience
and God consciousness, just like Adam and Eve, which normally occurs about the beginning of puberty, which might be
why A&E felt exposed after they sinned. This process began with the first human couple and is inherited by each succeeding generation.

 

[Magenta]

And, of course, "I tipped the scales towards hatred" because all you FWers tipped to the other extreme -- love, love, love, love. So, when someone like me comes along and corrects that error of extremism, then it's natural for guys like you to project your own extremism, to which you're totally blind, onto me! I'm the bad guy for looking at and understanding scripture in a fair and balanced way.

They may never be able to see it that way because they are too attached to their traditions of man and philosophical thinking regardless of how much it contradicts what the Bible explicitly states. I say they in a general sense because there are quite a few of them here that do that repeatedly. What the Bible actually says means nothing to them, and in fact when you quote the Bible to some of them, they will turn around and bald-faced lie to you because they prefer falsely accusing others to acknowledging the truth of Scripture.

 

[Rufus]

I believe babies are born selfish but innocent of sin until they attain the stage of moral accountability/conscience
and God consciousness, just like Adam and Eve, which normally occurs about the beginning of puberty, which might be
why A&E felt exposed after they sinned. This process began with the first human couple and is inherited by each succeeding generation.

Then your god that you worship is evil, unjust, unrighteous and unfair! How could your god allow any baby to die physically when physical death is the penalty for sin -- when the wages of sin is death!? How is that just?

 

[Kroogz]

Then how could his hatred be anything but holy, since God HATES sin and the sinner!?

You Guys need help. I wish I could help you.

We all hate cancer. We all hate the cancer inside of us. Do we hate all the cancer patients? Or would we rather CURE all the patients of cancer?

ALL believers should have the compassion and heart to CURE ALL the cancer patients. You know, like God.

2 Pet 3:9
The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not willing for any to perish, but for all to come to repentance.

 

[Rufus]

You Guys need help. I wish I could help you.

We all hate cancer. We all hate the cancer inside of us. Do we hate all the cancer patients? Or would we rather CURE all the patients of cancer?

ALL believers should have the compassion and heart to CURE ALL the cancer patients. You know, like God.

2 Pet 3:9
The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not willing for any [of you] to perish, but for all [of you] to come to repentance.

Another voice that rejects God's truth! Hey, Einsten, why don't you address Prov 11:1, 20 then get back to us with your explanation.

Meanwhile, who is the "you" in 2Pet 3:9?

P.S. For your info, God doesn't cure ALL cancer patients.

 

[Kroogz]

Another voice that rejects God's truth! Hey, Einsten, why don't you address Prov 11:1, 20 then get back to us with your explanation.

Meanwhile, who is the "you" in 2Pet 3:9?

P.S. For your info, God doesn't cure ALL cancer patients.

There is more compassion and love in a secular hospital.

 

[Magenta]

P.S. For your info, God doesn't cure ALL cancer patients.

I tried to find the statistics for last year but it was talking about the projected rates for people being diagnosed with cancer in the States in 2024... estimated to be around 2 million with just over 600,000 dying from cancer.

 

[lrs68]

We carry the guilt of our own sin, not Adam's.
We do however bear the consequences of Adam's actions in that we are all born separated from God.
Since we are born separated from God, we will sin.

However you define it it still means we need God and need to Repent.

 

[HeIsHere]

However you define it it still means we need God and need to Repent.

No can save themselves, agree, only those who think salvation is not secure ultimately are arguing a person is saving themselves
.... and the work of Christ is insufficient to save.

 

[lrs68]

You don't read too swell, do you? The text reads:

Rom 8:29-30
29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
NIV

So, Jesus is all the "those" in the passage, right? And since he must be, then you're interpreting the text as "Jesus whom God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son". And this makes perfectly good sense to you????

God knows every human ever born. But not every human born accepted God as Savior. But it still falls back into the point I made that the plan was to be in the image\likeness of Jesus.

 

[BillyBob]

We carry the guilt of our own sin, not Adam's.
We do however bear the consequences of Adam's actions in that we are all born separated from God.
Since we are born separated from God, we will sin.

Christ is often spoken of as the 2nd Adam. Why?
Romans 5:19
For as by one man’s disobedience, (Adam), many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience, (Christ), many will be made righteous.

Please note that we are spoken of as sinners right out of the box. In other words, Adam's disobedience becomes our own.
We are found spotless only because Christ has reversed this condition by removing our sin, placing it upon himself, and paying the penalty which we deserve. And this restoration process is done by grace alone, not by any works of our own, otherwise it would not be grace!

 

[lrs68]

No can save themselves, agree, only those who think salvation is not secure ultimately are arguing a person is saving themselves
.... and the work of Christ is insufficient to save.

Exactly, a person needs the works of Jesus to be applied to their life in order to be saved.

 

[Rufus]

God knows every human ever born. But not every human born accepted God as Savior. But it still falls back into the point I made that the plan was to be in the image\likeness of Jesus.

So, again...since all the "those" must = Jesus, then you're saying that God predestined Jesus to be conformed to his own image, which makes about as much sense as a square circle.

Also, Rom 8:29-30 is not about who will accept God or who accepts God! Rather, it's all about whom God will save! And he saves only those whom He [fore]knew in eternity!

 

[Rufus]

There is more compassion and love in a secular hospital.

So, you have no explanation for Prov 11:1, 20 or 2Pe 3:9.? Typical of you FWers! The lot of you are a bunch of empty suits, pretending you know scripture when in fact all of you are woefully ignorant of God's Holy Word.

 

[lrs68]

So, again...since all the "those" must = Jesus, then you're saying that God predestined Jesus to be conformed to his own image, which makes about as much sense as a square circle.

Also, Rom 8:29-30 is not about who will accept God or who accepts God! Rather, it's all about whom God will save! And he saves only those whom He [fore]knew in eternity!

You clearly chose not to read my post about

God knows every human ever born. But not every human born accepted God as Savior.