Not By Works

[Everlasting-Grace]

So, you have no scriptures that say what you believe. You merely have an opinion that you insist is true because someone told you it is true.

You are free to base your beliefs on hearsay. But it's a pretty weak foundation to rely on.

lol

Where we we start

John 1, As many as have recieved him, to them he gave the right
John 3. Whoever believes will never perish, but live forever.
John 4. Ask and I will give you living water flowing to eternal life
John 5. See and believe, pass from death to life shall NOT come into judgment
John 6. Eat the food which never perishes, you will NEVER hunger, NEVER thirst, LIVE FOREVER, Have ETERNAL life. Pass from death to life. Be raised on the last day, and NEVER be lost

I mean come-on.. where is initial salvation in these words of Jesus? or do you not interpret eternal to be forever. and never to mean never?

 

[GWH]

a person can not fall away. they can fall from the gospel. having never recieved it, But they can not fall from salvation

Again, you sure appear to be of the legalistic mindset.

Both are possibilities: 1John 2:19 & Heb. 6:4-6 & 10:35-36.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Both are possibilities: 1John 2:19 & Heb. 6:4-6 & 10:35-36.

Um no

1. Jesus said he would never leave nor forsake us
2. Jesus said he will lose no one
3. He said I will live forever. never die. and I have right now eternal life

reread those passages, they do not say what you think.

My salvation is based on God and his promises based n his death. not what I do or do not do. that's why it is of grace and not works.

 

[wattie]

Reiterating eternal salvation vs daily service.

Eternal salvation is through belief on the Lord Jesus Christ..saved eternally once for all time. John 3:16, 5:24, 6:40 etc..

Daily service is the right response to being freed from sin..but not the means of attaining salvation.

In the faith without works is dead verse.. the context is about daily service..not how you receive eternal life. It's is about how faith can be used for the profit of others.

That's the examples James gives. Using faith to help others.

'Working out your salvation with fear and trembling '

Context is daily service...the deliverance, salvation of a life in service to God..but not about eternal deliverance.

 

[PaulThomson]

lol

Where we we start

John 1, As many as have recieved him, to them he gave the right
John 3. Whoever believes will never perish, but live forever.
John 4. Ask and I will give you living water flowing to eternal life
John 5. See and believe, pass from death to life shall NOT come into judgment
John 6. Eat the food which never perishes, you will NEVER hunger, NEVER thirst, LIVE FOREVER, Have ETERNAL life. Pass from death to life. Be raised on the last day, and NEVER be lost

I mean come-on.. where is initial salvation in these words of Jesus? or do you not interpret eternal to be forever. and never to mean never?

What tenses in the Greek text are the verbs in your citations? namely, "have received" , "believes", "ask", "see", "believe", "eat".

The promises following apply to those doing those verbs according to the tense of those verbs. And on that basis, they don't say what you think they are saying.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

What tenses in the Greek text are the verbs in your citations? namely, "have received" , "believes", "ask", "see", "believe", "eat".

what tense is the word never, eternal etc in?

The promises following apply to those doing those verbs according to the tense of those verbs. And on that basis, they don't say what you think they are saying.

no.

Jesus is saying whoever in a moment of faith believes, or whoever reads and is believing, they HAVE eternal life. and WILL NEVER PERISH.

He did not say they have conditional life. and they MAY never perish.

your focused on the wrong words.

Also. Give me a reason people would stop having faith in a God who is pure love and never lets us down.. Why would we repent and trust God for eternity. then deny him?

it will not happen.

we lose faith in people who fail us, or who prove to be unfaithful

so anyone who claims we can lose faith. I question if they have faith in God at all. or know who he is

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Reiterating eternal salvation vs daily service.

Eternal salvation is through belief on the Lord Jesus Christ..saved eternally once for all time. John 3:16, 5:24, 6:40 etc..

Daily service is the right response to being freed from sin..but not the means of attaining salvation.

In the faith without works is dead verse.. the context is about daily service..not how you receive eternal life. It's is about how faith can be used for the profit of others.

That's the examples James gives. Using faith to help others.

'Working out your salvation with fear and trembling '

Context is daily service...the deliverance, salvation of a life in service to God..but not about eternal deliverance.

eternal means forever.

John said he wanted us to know we have it. and by knowing, we will continue to believe

what hope do we have if we have conditional life? Its on us, not God. who trusts self?

 

[GWH]

Um no

1. Jesus said he would never leave nor forsake us
2. Jesus said he will lose no one
3. He said I will live forever. never die. and I have right now eternal life

reread those passages, they do not say what you think.

My salvation is based on God and his promises based n his death. not what I do or do not do. that's why it is of grace and not works.

Well, my understanding of GW is based in part on having a BA in English,
but perhaps that effort went for naught. However, I still think GW teaches
that both 1John 2:19 and Heb. 6:4-6 & 10:35-36 are possibilities along with others:

a. a normally loving person observed during a rare moment when he/she acted uncharacteristically (PHP 3:12-16),

b. an immature Believer, who is making progress–you should have known him/her a year ago! (1CR 3:1-3, EPH 4:11-15)

c. a truthseeker who has not yet learned the correct interpretation of God’s Word (1CR 6:9-11, EPH 5:8-9), or

d. a pseudo-Christian (MT 7:21, 1JN 2:19), who may affirm morality while rejecting its divine rationale.

e. an apostate (1JN 2:19, HB 6:4-6), who once believed but became blasphemous or foolish and ship-wrecked their faith (1TM 1:19-20).

 

[lrs68]

a person can not fall away. they can fall from the gospel. having never recieved it, But they can not fall from salvation

Again, you sure appear to be of the legalistic mindset.

The Book of Hebrews says they can.
What is your opinion in comparison to what the Holy Spirit Inspired Bible claims?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Well, my understanding of GW is based in part on having a BA in English,
but perhaps that effort went for naught. However, I still think GW teaches
that both 1John 2:19 and Heb. 6:4-6 & 10:35-36 are possibilities along with others:

a. a normally loving person observed during a rare moment when he/she acted uncharacteristically (PHP 3:12-16),

b. an immature Believer, who is making progress–you should have known him/her a year ago! (1CR 3:1-3, EPH 4:11-15)

c. a truthseeker who has not yet learned the correct interpretation of God’s Word (1CR 6:9-11, EPH 5:8-9), or

d. a pseudo-Christian (MT 7:21, 1JN 2:19), who may affirm morality while rejecting its divine rationale.

e. an apostate (1JN 2:19, HB 6:4-6), who once believed but became blasphemous or foolish and ship-wrecked their faith (1TM 1:19-20).

well the word can not contradict. so no matter what. the verses you give me can not counter or go against what I shared

1 John - speaks of anti christs. they were never of us, if they were of us, they would not have left.

these people were never saved

2. Heb 6 - speaking to jews wanting to return to law. Which says you can fall away, and be renewed by animal sacrifice.

message, if we can fall away, we could never be renewed, we would be lost forever. and claiming we can fall away puts christ to open shame (it states the cross was not enoug)

heb 10. do not cast away your confidence. Amen, seek confidence in christ not self. No mention of losing salvation though

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

The Book of Hebrews says they can.
What is your opinion in comparison to what the Holy Spirit Inspired Bible claims?

ahh

so you are a legalist. who thinks you can lose salvation.

Good to know that i was correct the first time

Whats my opinion?

My opinion is what Jesus said, my faith is in his promise;. not myself

You trust whatever you want, i will trust in christ

 

[lrs68]

ahh

so you are a legalist. who thinks you can lose salvation.

Good to know that i was correct the first time

Whats my opinion?

My opinion is what Jesus said, my faith is in his promise;. not myself

You trust whatever you want, i will trust in christ

I am merely saying word for word what the Holy Inspired Word of God claims.

If someone wants to say what those plain spoken words mean the opposite of how they read then let God be their judge.

If someone wants to say what those plain spoken words mean in the context of how they appear to be written then let God be their judge.

We are commanded to seek out our own Salvation with fear and trembling.

Personally, I don't care how you choose to interpret the Holy Spirit Inspired Words of God. I only care about how the Holy Spirit of God reveals the meaning to me.

 

[HeIsHere]

and his faith was made complete by his obedience.

These are you words.


22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?


James 2:2 is not stating that works are required for justification.

James is exhorting with regards to the "life of liberty" not creating a must have checklist for salvation inspectors.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I am merely saying word for word what the Holy Inspired Word of God claims.

If they fall away does not mean they can fall away.. Context would be your helper.

If someone wants to say what those plain spoken words mean the opposite of how they read then let God be their judge.

If someone wants to say what those plain spoken words mean in the context of how they appear to be written then let God be their judge.

We are commanded to seek out our own Salvation with fear and trembling.

No we are called to work out the salvation we have

again, Yuo prove you are trying to merit salvation. Yet you got mad yesterday and claimed you did not

Personally, I don't care how you choose to interpret the Holy Spirit Inspired Words of God. I only care about how the Holy Spirit of God reveals the meaning to me.

Satan comes as an angel of light.

Don;t think everything you hear is from God

 

[HeIsHere]

We all agree that our initial salvation is achieved independently of any works we have done up to that point.

Hmm, "initial salvation"
I have not read those words in the Gospel of John. He seems quite clear.
Saved is saved.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

These are you words.


22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?


James 2:2 is not stating that works are required for justification.

James is exhorting with regards to the "life of liberty" not creating a must have checklist for salvation inspectors.

His audience is those who CLAIM to have faith, yet have never done anything to show their faith was real. and to call them to test their faith to make sure it is real..

 

[HeIsHere]

yes.

But even still. you can attack the doctrine. not the person.. We all do not agree on everything. if agreement is required. who will be in heaven? Who is right 100% of the time

Agree,
I also think that fruit can refer to those who are followers or are the product of false teachers.
It is a warning that if a group of people around someone does not look too good (bad fruit) stay away.

Not really about who is saved and not saved.

 

[lrs68]

These are you words.


22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?


James 2:2 is not stating that works are required for justification.

James is exhorting with regards to the "life of liberty" not creating a must have checklist for salvation inspectors.

I posted a Theological Definition of the verse because they are paid to explain verses unlike you and myself.

22 Thou seest that faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect;
23 and the scripture was fulfilled which saith, And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness; and he was called the friend of God.
24 Ye see that by works a man is justified, and not only by faith.


^
Those verses still say what I have been saying.

 

[HeIsHere]

His audience is those who CLAIM to have faith, yet have never done anything to show their faith was real. and to call them to test their faith to make sure it is real..

Well we disagree,
They are saved but are not putting their faith to use and thereby showing to others the goodness of salvation.

They are not living the life of liberty, James is hoping they will see that putting one's faith to work will bring benefits .....to the saving of one's soul.

 

[HeIsHere]

I posted a Theological Definition of the verse because they are paid to explain verses unlike you and myself.

22 Thou seest that faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect;
23 and the scripture was fulfilled which saith, And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness; and he was called the friend of God.
24 Ye see that by works a man is justified, and not only by faith.


^
Those verses still say what I have been saying.

James is not writing about how to get saved or stay saved, they already knew the Gospel, it is written with believers in mind, that should be the starting point.