Understanding God’s election

[lrs68]

So...Moses knows the identity of the "you" in 2Pet 3:9 but you don't?

No, the You is to the Jews Peter is addressing like we have already discussed

And what specifically did God tell Moses in Exodus that is relevant to 2Pet 3:9?

not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance (but Exodus says all should live).

 

[studier]

I am fairly new to this that incident was 7.5 years ago now. So maybe I dont understand everything people are saying back and forth here. I feel like one side is saying God's grace saves you and one side is saying your free will to have faith saves you. I am not choosing sides just evaluating the conversation with my own perspective based on what and how it happened to me. And I think yes you do have free will to awnser God's call and that saves you but God's grace dialed the number to begin with and without that call you would of had no faith.

Wise to not get too deep into this thread. If you read a few pages, you'll get some insight into what the other 12k+ are all about. It's merry-go-round argument for and against what's referred to as Calvinism and the TULIP tradition of interpretation which you can search on the internet and see the arguments for and against. It's nonsense.

@Rufus is the main resident Calvinist who has camped out on this thread for enough time that I refer to it as his thread. He's a dope. Best not to pay too much attention.

 

[Jackson129]

Interesting and thanks!

The point is that you knew of God, and you knew of Jesus Christ. You say now that God didn't let you die. I assume you understood that at or near the time of the experience. You knew of a concept of going "down" and knew you deserved it. You were far from ignorant of God and had much in your mind that He placed in all people.

You also know you made the choice and by His Grace you were still here to make that choice. IOW He had kept you here, had provided you with information, but He had not made that decision to accept Him for you.

Many of us have had similar experiences. I can look back and see at least 2 or 3 occasions where seemingly miraculous things took place to allow me the time to choose Life. Even after those events it took years for me to choose and my realization at that point was that I had made every stupid decision that led to my being in the condition that accepting Him was the only thing that made sense anymore.

Thanks again.

Just before and during the incident God was not what I was thinking about. It was then about a 2 month time frame of me walking around in circles pulling my hair out trying to figure out what happened. Trying to give some pathetic earthly logical explanation to what occurred all the while I kept getting more and more terrified. All the earthly knowledge could not overcome the fear. So it had to be His grace that saved me. Because pre incident for me if it was chosing to believe in God vs earthly wisdom the eartly wisdom would have won out.

 

[Rufus]

Sure, that was when you said Moses was a Weimaraner, remember?

No, I don't remember because I never said what you claim. God hates liars -- those who bear false witness.

 

[Rufus]

Wise to not get too deep into this thread. If you read a few pages, you'll get some insight into what the other 12k+ are all about. It's merry-go-round argument for and against what's referred to as Calvinism and the TULIP tradition of interpretation which you can search on the internet and see the arguments for and against. It's nonsense.

@Rufus is the main resident Calvinist who has camped out on this thread for enough time that I refer to it as his thread. He's a dope. Best not to pay too much attention.

Not my thread. I didn't start it. And the only dopes around here are those who reject God's truth, preach a false gospel, consistently use eisegesis to interpret scripture and play loose and fancy with the metaphors in scripture to the extent a term becomes meaningless.

 

[Rufus]

No, the You is to the Jews Peter is addressing like we have already discussed

not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance (but Exodus says all should live).

Quote or cite the passage in Exodus, please. Why are you keeping it a secret?

And to whom was Moses writing in Exodus? Who was his original audience?

 

[studier]

Give me one text in scripture that teaches that sinners elect God. You seem to think that it wasn't necessary for God in eternity to determine to save a remnant of mankind for himself.

Why should a give you something you made up?

 

[studier]

No, I don't remember because I never said what you claim. God hates liars -- those who bear false witness.

That's why I accused you of doing something really inane so maybe you'd get the drift that your lying about me is just as inane. Catch up!

 

[studier]

all the while I kept getting more and more terrified.

Then came the break point. Mine wasn't terror but come it did.

 

[GWH]

Only if you believe God is morally inferior to the Good Samaritan who rescued a helpless person. And besides, Jesus taught that all that the Father gives to Him WILL come to him! But in your world it would have been much better if the Father had not drawn anyone. This way God could wax as the proverbial EOE (Equal Opportunity Employer) since he would allow all to perish equally. That would have been far more just of God, wouldn't it?

In Scripture, God draws all men to Christ on the cross, but His call is resistible,
and those who resist reap the just result.

 

[studier]

Not my thread. I didn't start it. And the only dopes around here are those who reject God's truth, preach a false gospel, consistently use eisegesis to interpret scripture and play loose and fancy with the metaphors in scripture to the extent a term becomes meaningless.

You highjacked it. I agree with your last sentence which is why I in silly fashion referred to as I did. The shoe fits.

 

[studier]

In Scripture, God draws all men to Christ on the cross, but His call is resistible,
and those who resist reap the just result.

That's too simple for this thread. Are you sure?

 

[GWH]

I had a near death experience if that is the right term. God didnt let me die. With the life i lived till then i have no idea why. I had no part in being saved that day. It was only by his grace nothing else. Once you know it's real there's no need to wonder. I became immensely scared that if i were to die that down is the only place for me. Since you you know not the hour or the day I became terrified it could happen at any second again. I was scared of God and what would happen to me if I died. I've had plenty of close calls if you will but that one was differnt. That one changed me. So yes I had free will to choose to go to God but every single thing that lead up to that choice. Ever circumstance that even put that choice into my consciousness was by the grace of God nothing else
Yes I heard of Jesus everyone in the civilized world has at some point in thier life.

Re "So yes I had free will to choose to go to God but every single thing that lead up to that choice. Ever circumstance that even put that choice into my consciousness was by the grace of God nothing else": Yes, this is what may be called "seeking grace" (Matt. 7:7, Tit. 2:11).

 

[GWH]

That's too simple for this thread. Are you sure?

I am sure Scripture says: John 12:32, Matt. 13:14-15, Gal. 6:7-8.

 

[lrs68]

Quote or cite the passage in Exodus, please. Why are you keeping it a secret?

And to whom was Moses writing in Exodus? Who was his original audience?

Moses was quoting God.

You present yourself as a Theologian and you are not familiar with the origin to part of Peter's recited purpose?

 

[lrs68]

Moses was quoting God.

You present yourself as a Theologian and you are not familiar with the origin to part of Peter's recited purpose?

Actually we see a similar comment in Ezekiel, Peter, Timothy aside from the original.

So it's important enough to God to have it repeated over and over again.

 

[studier]

I am sure Scripture says: John 12:32, Matt. 13:14-15, Gal. 6:7-8.

I thought so.

 

[Magenta]

Not my thread. I didn't start it. And the only dopes around here are those who reject God's truth, preach a false gospel, consistently use
eisegesis to interpret scripture and play loose and fancy with the metaphors in scripture to the extent a term becomes meaningless.

He sure pays a lot of attention to you while saying best not to pay too much attention to you.

 

[GWH]

He sure pays a lot of attention to you while saying best not to pay too much attention to you.

Too true.
But some folks have the gift of gab.

 

[Jimbone]

The law points out sin
Sin is the transgression of the law.

By grace Jesus has forgiven us of sin and taken away the penalty of sinning

Sin = death

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

We are not under the penalty of death, the law has no power to condemn us when Jesus forgives us.

But

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Do we continue to sin or transgress the law, because of the grace of Jesus? No

Rom 6:1-2
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Rom 7:12-13
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. 13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

The law is not made void, it is fulfilled in us by the Gift of Christs righteousness.
Rom 8:3-4
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

This sounds exactly like what I describe on here every day. It's amazing how the truth lines up with His word so well. There is really only 1 part of this we disagree on when we break it down. how is it we are even able to obey His word? I say it's 100% Gods power that dives us this ability, His Spirit that indwells us and guides us to all truth. I do not believe this event and rebirth is something that can be reversed. I do NOT believe we obey by our power at all, that's why we are told it's impossible for those of the flesh to please God.

You seem to believe in a cosmic probation where our obedience is what saves us in the end that makes it works based. Why you can't seem to "get" this I really don't understand. I actually think I do understand but it's just not an argument anyone buy God can open your eyes to. It just doesn't seem like you know the Spirit he way you argue everything.

For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit.

Honestly look at our conversations, of the two of us, who seems to have their mind set on the things of the Spirit, and who thinks more of the things of the flesh, like the law, obedience, and being good enough to warrant salvation? I'm just saying that you seem to think very much like I did when I was not really saved and just liked the "idea" of Jesus.