Total Depravity

[Red33]

COMMON SENSE APPROACH

We know that man is totally depraved because of the human heart that is deceitful and desperately wicked. We can see that in ourselves and in others, therefore we can assign total depravity to the human race. We see that children are born and soon after are speaking lies and are easily led astray. That is the simple approached and the only ones that would balk at that are those that believe in human good over and against divine good. There is none that are born with divine good and those that would boast of human good, their best condition is considered vanity and filthy rags before a holy God but not before those that live in human good and believe that man is intrinsically good and somehow can be corrupted after the fact by their surroundings and the influence of human evil.

Depravity means no soundness and no ability to do a single thing mentally, emotionally, volitionally, righteously or morally, no matter what the appearance, that would be acceptable to God in any way, shape, form or conformity, inwardly or outwardly, and that also goes for the inverse or those things that are omitted and never committed. In other words, if a man were able to abstain from every form of lust and fleshly desire mentally, emotionally and from the appetites of his body and was able to accomplish this perfectly in his own strength, it would be disapproved by God and completely unacceptable because of the source of that strength and ability that accomplished such a discipline. It would be commendable but not acceptable as a means to justify the constitutional makeup and substance of a man's being before the holiness, righteousness, purity and the uncreated life of his Creator.

Such a totally depraved and sinful nature have we all inherited from conception through our progenitor Adam, with no if, ands or buts about it. It can not be denied, refuted, intellectualized, rationalized away or forgotten through ignorance because it abides in every living man and woman that has breath and is confirmed by those that have met up with the grave through death.

 

[zone]

COMMON SENSE APPROACH

We know that man is totally depraved because of the human heart that is deceitful and desperately wicked. We can see that in ourselves and in others, therefore we can assign total depravity to the human race. We see that children are born and soon after are speaking lies and are easily led astray. That is the simple approached and the only ones that would balk at that are those that believe in human good over and against divine good. There is none that are born with divine good and those that would boast of human good, their best condition is considered vanity and filthy rags before a holy God but not before those that live in human good and believe that man is intrinsically good and somehow can be corrupted after the fact by their surroundings and the influence of human evil.

Depravity means no soundness and no ability to do a single thing mentally, emotionally, volitionally, righteously or morally, no matter what the appearance, that would be acceptable to God in any way, shape, form or conformity, inwardly or outwardly, and that also goes for the inverse or those things that are omitted and never committed. In other words, if a man were able to abstain from every form of lust and fleshly desire mentally, emotionally and from the appetites of his body and was able to accomplish this perfectly in his own strength, it would be disapproved by God and completely unacceptable because of the source of that strength and ability that accomplished such a discipline. It would be commendable but not acceptable as a means to justify the constitutional makeup and substance of a man's being before the holiness, righteousness, purity and the uncreated life of his Creator.

Such a totally depraved and sinful nature have we all inherited from conception through our progenitor Adam, with no if, ands or buts about it. It can not be denied, refuted, intellectualized, rationalized away or forgotten through ignorance because it abides in every living man and woman that has breath and is confirmed by those that have met up with the grave through death.

amen redster.
i agree.
zone

 

[Tobby17]

COMMON SENSE APPROACH

We know that man is totally depraved because of the human heart that is deceitful and desperately wicked. We can see that in ourselves and in others, therefore we can assign total depravity to the human race. We see that children are born and soon after are speaking lies and are easily led astray. That is the simple approached and the only ones that would balk at that are those that believe in human good over and against divine good. There is none that are born with divine good and those that would boast of human good, their best condition is considered vanity and filthy rags before a holy God but not before those that live in human good and believe that man is intrinsically good and somehow can be corrupted after the fact by their surroundings and the influence of human evil.

Depravity means no soundness and no ability to do a single thing mentally, emotionally, volitionally, righteously or morally, no matter what the appearance, that would be acceptable to God in any way, shape, form or conformity, inwardly or outwardly, and that also goes for the inverse or those things that are omitted and never committed. In other words, if a man were able to abstain from every form of lust and fleshly desire mentally, emotionally and from the appetites of his body and was able to accomplish this perfectly in his own strength, it would be disapproved by God and completely unacceptable because of the source of that strength and ability that accomplished such a discipline. It would be commendable but not acceptable as a means to justify the constitutional makeup and substance of a man's being before the holiness, righteousness, purity and the uncreated life of his Creator.

Such a totally depraved and sinful nature have we all inherited from conception through our progenitor Adam, with no if, ands or buts about it. It can not be denied, refuted, intellectualized, rationalized away or forgotten through ignorance because it abides in every living man and woman that has breath and is confirmed by those that have met up with the grave through death.

Sorry, but will u answer this one question?

If you had inherited AIDS from ur mum, would u have accepted it?

 

[NitzWalsh]

COMMON SENSE APPROACH

We know that man is totally depraved because of the human heart that is deceitful and desperately wicked. We can see that in ourselves and in others, therefore we can assign total depravity to the human race. We see that children are born and soon after are speaking lies and are easily led astray. That is the simple approached and the only ones that would balk at that are those that believe in human good over and against divine good. There is none that are born with divine good and those that would boast of human good, their best condition is considered vanity and filthy rags before a holy God but not before those that live in human good and believe that man is intrinsically good and somehow can be corrupted after the fact by their surroundings and the influence of human evil.

Depravity means no soundness and no ability to do a single thing mentally, emotionally, volitionally, righteously or morally, no matter what the appearance, that would be acceptable to God in any way, shape, form or conformity, inwardly or outwardly, and that also goes for the inverse or those things that are omitted and never committed. In other words, if a man were able to abstain from every form of lust and fleshly desire mentally, emotionally and from the appetites of his body and was able to accomplish this perfectly in his own strength, it would be disapproved by God and completely unacceptable because of the source of that strength and ability that accomplished such a discipline. It would be commendable but not acceptable as a means to justify the constitutional makeup and substance of a man's being before the holiness, righteousness, purity and the uncreated life of his Creator.

Such a totally depraved and sinful nature have we all inherited from conception through our progenitor Adam, with no if, ands or buts about it. It can not be denied, refuted, intellectualized, rationalized away or forgotten through ignorance because it abides in every living man and woman that has breath and is confirmed by those that have met up with the grave through death.

I can't believe in total depravity. I believe mankind is corrupt and has a tendency to sin, but that we're capable of acts both "good" and "evil". So yeah, I can deny total depravity.

 

[Red33]

Sorry, but will u answer this one question?

If you had inherited AIDS from ur mum, would u have accepted it?

Tobby,

I don't think I would have had an option. Man is concieved in sin and shapen in iniquity (Ps 51:5) and there is nothing man can do about it, in and of himself. This is why Christ had to come and be our sin-bearer and put away sin and all sins through His death, burial and resurrection. We have all gone astray and we all need to be reconciled to God through His Son. If we were not totally depraved, we would be capable of improving ourselves without the help of God and be able to justify ourselves through the self righteousness of our own goodness without mercy and grace. That is not possible because there is none that doeth good and none that is righteous and we are dead in our trespasses and sins until the light of the glorious gospel shines unto us in our totally depraved state.

 

[Red33]

I can't believe in total depravity. I believe mankind is corrupt and has a tendency to sin, but that we're capable of acts both "good" and "evil". So yeah, I can deny total depravity.

On what basis do you feel that God will accept you into the kingdom of God and into His presence? Would it be upon any of your acts of human goodness or based upon something He must supply you with? Will God accept anything outside His own righteousness and perfection or will He settle for what man can produce as long as it is good? Does God forgive you of your sin because, after all, you are basically a good person, or does He forgive you based upon the fact that you are a sinner with no way to redeem and cleanse yourself from sin? To be seperated from God through sin means that we are totally depraved with no hope in and of ourselves. Our hope must come from above and in the One that God sent to redeem us from our sinful and depraved nature and that One would be Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, who became sin for us that we might recieve the righteousness of God by faith. Salvation is only in the righteousness of His Son and not in our own.

 

[BlueLagoon]

On what basis do you feel that God will accept you into the kingdom of God and into His presence? Would it be upon any of your acts of human goodness or based upon something He must supply you with? Will God accept anything outside His own righteousness and perfection or will He settle for what man can produce as long as it is good? Does God forgive you of your sin because, after all, you are basically a good person, or does He forgive you based upon the fact that you are a sinner with no way to redeem and cleanse yourself from sin? To be seperated from God through sin means that we are totally depraved with no hope in and of ourselves. Our hope must come from above and in the One that God sent to redeem us from our sinful and depraved nature and that One would be Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, who became sin for us that we might recieve the righteousness of God by faith. Salvation is only in the righteousness of His Son and not in our own.

I believe people can be good, nice, helpful, giving, if they want to be because they choose to be, but those are all outward actions. It is the heart that is desparately wicked. I meet alot of people during the day who are nice and very capable of doing good deeds. Without a new heart, good deeds are just that. Good deeds. They dont save anyone. And i agree with your post.

 

[Scotth1960]

COMMON SENSE APPROACH

Red33: We know that man is totally depraved because of the human heart that is deceitful and desperately wicked.
Scotth1960:That is not what the Bible says! Here is the correct translation of Jeremiah 17:5 SAAS OSB (Jeremiah 17:9 KJV): "The heart is deep beyond all things, and it is the man. Even so, who can know him?". The KJV translation of this verse is based on an incorrect Hebrew text. The Greek Septuagint OT text has it correctly!
Totally depraved people do not repent. If all human beings are totally depraved, then there would be no human beings who repent. Some people do repent, so they cannot be totally depraved. No human being is as wicked as the devil.
SAAS OSB Saint Athanasius Academy Septuagint, Orthodox Study Bible

We can see that in ourselves and in others, therefore we can assign total depravity to the human race. We see that children are born and soon after are speaking lies and are easily led astray. That is the simple approached and the only ones that would balk at that are those that believe in human good over and against divine good. There is none that are born with divine good and those that would boast of human good, their best condition is considered vanity and filthy rags before a holy God but not before those that live in human good and believe that man is intrinsically good and somehow can be corrupted after the fact by their surroundings and the influence of human evil.

Depravity means no soundness and no ability to do a single thing mentally, emotionally, volitionally, righteously or morally, no matter what the appearance, that would be acceptable to God in any way, shape, form or conformity, inwardly or outwardly, and that also goes for the inverse or those things that are omitted and never committed. In other words, if a man were able to abstain from every form of lust and fleshly desire mentally, emotionally and from the appetites of his body and was able to accomplish this perfectly in his own strength, it would be disapproved by God and completely unacceptable because of the source of that strength and ability that accomplished such a discipline. It would be commendable but not acceptable as a means to justify the constitutional makeup and substance of a man's being before the holiness, righteousness, purity and the uncreated life of his Creator.


Red33:Such a totally depraved and sinful nature have we all inherited from conception through our progenitor Adam, with no if, ands or buts about it. It can not be denied, refuted, intellectualized, rationalized away or forgotten through ignorance because it abides in every living man and woman that has breath and is confirmed by those that have met up with the grave through death.

Scotth1960: Original sin is a heresy of Augustine of Hippo! If man is totally depraved, how could there be any human beings whatsoever who repent? Man would be so wicked that even God could not save him. But we know this is not so. God can and does save whosoever He wills to save. And He requires repentance of them. Of course it is God's mercy that leads people to repent, not any merit or strength on their part. But if humanity is all totally depraved, it would be a state where no one repented. Yet some people do repent. How could they if they are totally depraved? Man retains the free will to cooperate with God's grace. God requires men to repent using the free will that God gave them so that they can repent.

 

[Scotth1960]

COMMON SENSE APPROACH

We know that man is totally depraved because of the human heart that is deceitful and desperately wicked. We can see that in ourselves and in others, therefore we can assign total depravity to the human race. We see that children are born and soon after are speaking lies and are easily led astray. That is the simple approached and the only ones that would balk at that are those that believe in human good over and against divine good. There is none that are born with divine good and those that would boast of human good, their best condition is considered vanity and filthy rags before a holy God but not before those that live in human good and believe that man is intrinsically good and somehow can be corrupted after the fact by their surroundings and the influence of human evil.

Depravity means no soundness and no ability to do a single thing mentally, emotionally, volitionally, righteously or morally, no matter what the appearance, that would be acceptable to God in any way, shape, form or conformity, inwardly or outwardly, and that also goes for the inverse or those things that are omitted and never committed. In other words, if a man were able to abstain from every form of lust and fleshly desire mentally, emotionally and from the appetites of his body and was able to accomplish this perfectly in his own strength, it would be disapproved by God and completely unacceptable because of the source of that strength and ability that accomplished such a discipline. It would be commendable but not acceptable as a means to justify the constitutional makeup and substance of a man's being before the holiness, righteousness, purity and the uncreated life of his Creator.

Such a totally depraved and sinful nature have we all inherited from conception through our progenitor Adam, with no if, ands or buts about it. It can not be denied, refuted, intellectualized, rationalized away or forgotten through ignorance because it abides in every living man and woman that has breath and is confirmed by those that have met up with the grave through death.


Scotth1960: Ezekiel chapter 18 proves Augustine of Hippo's Manichaean dualistic doctrines of original sin and total depravity are false. Well, total depravity is a Calvinist doctrine, but I'm not sure Augustine of Hippo endorsed the phrase or the concept. But he did teach original guilt, original sin.
Go figure. Some of Augustine of Hippo's doctrines are just heretical!
Total depravity is one of the 5 Calvinist heresies! TULIP is a great sin against the Truth (John 16:13).

 

[ada]

amen redster.
i agree.
zone

Sorry Zone, my beloved sister. I disagree.
His posting is too pessimistic cause he does not name JESUS CHRIST.
So what if Jesus made his believers born free,and you are, redster, are just an unbeliever?..
Reject antichrist non religion JUDAISM!
Judaism is ANTICHRIST dogma!

 

[jimmydiggs]

Howdy Kids.

Ephesians 2:5

5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—

I rest my case.

 

[ada]

Ephesian 5:11
And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove [them].
Ephesians 5 / King James Version / Online Bible

 

[jimmydiggs]

Ephesian 5:11
And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove [them].
Ephesians 5 / King James Version / Online Bible

That's a good verse


Total Depravity tells us, that we are in our basic state, filled with unfruitful works of darkness.

 

[AnandaHya]

COMMON SENSE APPROACH

We know that man is totally depraved because of the human heart that is deceitful and desperately wicked.
that is why God places a new heart in people...

We can see that in ourselves and in others, therefore we can assign total depravity to the human race. We see that children are born and soon after are speaking lies and are easily led astray. ??? most kids are pretty honest they learn to lie because they find telling the truth sometimes causes them to get in trouble or mimic other people they see.

That is the simple approached and the only ones that would balk at that are those that believe in human good over and against divine good. what? that is a false dictomy if I ever saw one. you can believe in human good without placing it above and against Divine good.


There is none that are born with divine good except Jesus and John the Baptist who had the Holy Spirit from the womb? and those that would boast of human good, their best condition is considered vanity and filthy rags before a holy God but not before those that live in human good and believe that man is intrinsically good and somehow can be corrupted after the fact by their surroundings and the influence of human evil. ??? mmm yeah if they are corrupted then it would be filthy rags and most are corrupted by their surroundings. If a baby dies is it in hell?

Depravity means no soundness and no ability to do a single thing mentally, emotionally, volitionally, righteously or morally, no matter what the appearance, that would be acceptable to God in any way, shape, form or conformity, inwardly or outwardly, and that also goes for the inverse or those things that are omitted and never committed. In other words, if a man were able to abstain from every form of lust and fleshly desire mentally, emotionally and from the appetites of his body and was able to accomplish this perfectly in his own strength, it would be disapproved by God and completely unacceptable because of the source of that strength and ability that accomplished such a discipline. It would be commendable but not acceptable as a means to justify the constitutional makeup and substance of a man's being before the holiness, righteousness, purity and the uncreated life of his Creator. yeah cause you take away the fact that God sent His Holy Spirit and angels to instruct and keep people from this state throughout human history....

Such a totally depraved and sinful nature have we all inherited from conception through our progenitor Adam, with no if, ands or buts about it. It can not be denied, refuted, intellectualized, rationalized away or forgotten through ignorance because it abides in every living man and woman that has breath and is confirmed by those that have met up with the grave through death.

The human body has lust and sinful inclinations but humans are not totally depraved. the soma/body dies but the soul continues and the soul chooses to listen to the spirit or the flesh while still attached to the body.

Psalm 104:4
Who makes His angels spirits,His ministers a flame of fire.

Hebrews 1
13 But to which of the angels has He ever said:

“ Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool”?

14 Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to minister for those who will inherit salvation?

 

[Tobby17]

Tobby,

I don't think I would have had an option. Man is concieved in sin and shapen in iniquity (Ps 51:5) and there is nothing man can do about it, in and of himself. This is why Christ had to come and be our sin-bearer and put away sin and all sins through His death, burial and resurrection. We have all gone astray and we all need to be reconciled to God through His Son. If we were not totally depraved, we would be capable of improving ourselves without the help of God and be able to justify ourselves through the self righteousness of our own goodness without mercy and grace. That is not possible because there is none that doeth good and none that is righteous and we are dead in our trespasses and sins until the light of the glorious gospel shines unto us in our totally depraved state.

Sorry, but I don't think this answers my question. Will you or will you not accept it?

 

[loveschild]

COMMON SENSE APPROACH

We know that man is totally depraved because of the human heart that is deceitful and desperately wicked. We can see that in ourselves and in others, therefore we can assign total depravity to the human race. We see that children are born and soon after are speaking lies and are easily led astray. That is the simple approached and the only ones that would balk at that are those that believe in human good over and against divine good. There is none that are born with divine good and those that would boast of human good, their best condition is considered vanity and filthy rags before a holy God but not before those that live in human good and believe that man is intrinsically good and somehow can be corrupted after the fact by their surroundings and the influence of human evil.

Depravity means no soundness and no ability to do a single thing mentally, emotionally, volitionally, righteously or morally, no matter what the appearance, that would be acceptable to God in any way, shape, form or conformity, inwardly or outwardly, and that also goes for the inverse or those things that are omitted and never committed. In other words, if a man were able to abstain from every form of lust and fleshly desire mentally, emotionally and from the appetites of his body and was able to accomplish this perfectly in his own strength, it would be disapproved by God and completely unacceptable because of the source of that strength and ability that accomplished such a discipline. It would be commendable but not acceptable as a means to justify the constitutional makeup and substance of a man's being before the holiness, righteousness, purity and the uncreated life of his Creator.

Such a totally depraved and sinful nature have we all inherited from conception through our progenitor Adam, with no if, ands or buts about it. It can not be denied, refuted, intellectualized, rationalized away or forgotten through ignorance because it abides in every living man and woman that has breath and is confirmed by those that have met up with the grave through death.

Thank God for the blood.

 

[jonathanbchristian]

I must admit I don not completely believe in total depravity. I believe we have the ability to choose salvation. Yes, I do believe that God must call us but I believe we have the ability to except or reject His calling. Yes, I believe that everyone was dead and needed to be born again to have life. I believe that we are made in God's image even when we are lost and are capable of good deeds but no, I don't believe we can do God's will as a lost person. I believe we must be saved to do the works of God.

 

[schoolofyoungprophet]

I can't believe in total depravity. I believe mankind is corrupt and has a tendency to sin, but that we're capable of acts both "good" and "evil". So yeah, I can deny total depravity.

I beleive in total depravity,cuz everything a human does is out of sinful nature,best of the best righteous act da he does God considers ir ti be a filthy rags..thaz y its important to know n preach the gosple

 

[BlueLagoon]

jonathanbchristian, there are many many people doing good deeds around the globe. For instance, charity organizations do alot to help humanity. They don't have to be Christian to do good. They see need, and they do more than many Christians do. But that's not the point. The point is that we are by nature depraved. We can do good on the outside, but have evil thoughts, anger, malice, feelings of revenge, or just simply unseen hatred in our hearts that no one but God sees. Once we are saved, God can use the good for His glory. He can also use the good done by the unbeliever for His glory, they just don't know it.

 

[Red33]

We did not write the scriptures, but we have to let them speak to us through the Holy Spirit to bring truth into our being so that we can have God's understanding and not our own to lean upon. So, when the scriptures tells us that 'there is none that doeth good, no not one', how are we to understand what that is telling us? Is there some that do good but not all or is there none that doeth good, NO NOT ONE!

Ps 53:2,3 God looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand , that did seek God. 3 Every one of them is gone back : they are altogether become filthy ; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Rom 3:10-12 As it is written , There is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth , there is none that seeketh after God. 12 They are all gone out of the way , they are together become unprofitable ; there is none that doeth good, no, not one .