Singlehood and Chastity

[Subhumanoidal]

Genesis 2:24
“Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.”

'Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother to have sex and have children'? That doesn't sound right.

Matthew 19:6
“So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.”

How, exactly, would man 'separate' a child?
Also 'God Has Joined Together'. No mention of children.

 

[GaryA]

That is the correct understanding of scripture, when people get divorced are they still one?

Divorce is the "tearing apart" what God "put together"...

 

[GaryA]

I will go with how the term was understood in the original culture to whom it was spoken..... as a reference to the offspring created by the both of them, since it obvious that a husband and wife do not become a single being.

Consider the possibility that - "in God's eyes" - they do become a single 'being' by virtue of a spiritual bond between them. Not a single 'physical' being - no - but rather, a single 'spiritual' being of sorts. Of course, in reality it is more about a 'bond' than a 'being'. I am only using the word here because you used it and to illustrate my point.

 

[GaryA]

The phrase, "become one flesh" is not contained entirely nor solely within the parameters of marriage.

True. However, it may always apply to a physical union if not a spiritual union - with-or-without marriage - with-or-without children.

You cannot say without error that "shall be one flesh" applies to children - because, the word 'shall' would necessitate the actual bringing-about of children.

The word 'shall' explicitly indicates 'it will happen' - "it cannot not happen" - it is very clear in the grammar.

So then - whatever it is being applied to - sex, marriage, whatever - is the direct result of the thing itself.

For example:

1) a man and a woman marry - that very thing is what makes the two become one - a spiritual union

2) a man and a woman have sex - that very thing is what makes the two become one - physical union

If a child comes out of it - it applies in a different way altogether.

I do not believe that anyone denies the reasoning you are using to "make your case" is logical, etc. - it does make sense in the context of that reasoning; rather, they are saying that it cannot be applied to various verses of scripture in the context of the passage where they are found.

 

[GaryA]

And no, of course we are not to view marriage as a means of self-fulfillment, I'm not sure why you are reading that into what I said 🤔.

I do not believe that it is necessarily wrong to use the term 'self-fulfillment' as long as we also include in that usage - and have the understanding - that it is referring to that which comes from an unselfish type of shared-commitment relationship intended to 'fulfill' both husband and wife.

I am assuming that you are using the term strictly in a selfish context - in which case, I would agree - we should not view marriage as a means of obtaining that which we desire with purely selfish motives/reasoning/thinking.

 

[GaryA]

I agree with you and would add that the problem in marriages is not always sex. Sex turn to be sour when other needs are not met.

Most times the financial needs of the family my silence the sex issues. sometimes children needing much care and this where I like the western because they would go on dates to keep the flow.
sex May be a bonding item but it may not always useful if other needs are not met.

this a view from outside so please forgive it is wrong

I would not say that it is wrong - it is a very complex thing...

As a side note - I highly recommend to anyone-and-everyone the Mark Gungor Marriage Seminar mentioned in post #74.

 

[Edith]

Genesis 2:24
“Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.”

'Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother to have sex and have children'? That doesn't sound right.

Matthew 19:6
“So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.”

How, exactly, would man 'separate' a child?
Also 'God Has Joined Together'. No mention of children.

on point

 

[HeIsHere]

True. However, it may always apply to a physical union if not a spiritual union - with-or-without marriage - with-or-without children.

You cannot say without error that "shall be one flesh" applies to children - because, the word 'shall' would necessitate the actual bringing-about of children.

The word 'shall' explicitly indicates 'it will happen' - "it cannot not happen" - it is very clear in the grammar.

So then - whatever it is being applied to - sex, marriage, whatever - is the direct result of the thing itself.

For example:

1) a man and a woman marry - that very thing is what makes the two become one - a spiritual union

2) a man and a woman have sex - that very thing is what makes the two become one - physical union

If a child comes out of it - it applies in a different way altogether.

I do not believe that anyone denies the reasoning you are using to "make your case" is logical, etc. - it does make sense in the context of that reasoning; rather, they are saying that it cannot be applied to various verses of scripture in the context of the passage where they are found.

Modern thinking at its best.

 

[Kireina]

😂😂😂😂😂😂 very funny

I think Lynx is serious about it 😊

 

[Kireina]

one of the big reasons many men and sometimes Christian men don't get in to relationship is when you tell them you will be chase till marriage and they leave. this has been my issue since2018 when I decided to rededicate my life to God. I don't regret it. However I am scared when I am being approached for a relationship and I'm 37

Were they genuinely Christians? Perhaps those men weren't looking for someone to marry. Sometimes, regardless of how nice or good a man is, he's not the one for you. There are nice men who aren't the right fit. Are you worried they might lose interest or stop pursuing you? If so, don't be scared. Continue honoring God through self-control. The right person will come along, no matter how long the wait is, if it's God's will for you to get married. I married at 46.

 

[Magenta]

I am scared when I am being approached for a relationship

Romans 8 verse 31b, Hebrews 13 verse 6 ~ If God is for us, who can be against us? So we say with confidence: “The Lord is my helper; I will not be afraid. What can man do to me?”

 

[Snackersmom]

I do not believe that it is necessarily wrong to use the term 'self-fulfillment' as long as we also include in that usage - and have the understanding - that it is referring to that which comes from an unselfish type of shared-commitment relationship intended to 'fulfill' both husband and wife.

I am assuming that you are using the term strictly in a selfish context - in which case, I would agree - we should not view marriage as a means of obtaining that which we desire with purely selfish motives/reasoning/thinking.

I was referring more to selfish fulfillment, or perhaps seeking marriage with the assumption that it will bring fulfillment independent of God's specific blessing on the union. I do not subscribe to the theory that "Any 2 Christians of opposite gender is all it takes to make a marriage." Perhaps it works that way for some, but has never been that simple for me personally.

But yes, I do believe that a God-ordained marriage will bring with it a sense of fulfillment, just as following God's will and direction always does.

 

[GaryA]

I do not subscribe to the theory that "Any 2 Christians of opposite gender is all it takes to make a marriage." Perhaps it works that way for some, but has never been that simple for me personally.

I do not subscribe to that idea, either - even Christians must have compatible/complimentary personalities, etc. for the marriage to work well for the both of them. And, I do not think it is that simple for anyone...

If I am wrong in saying this, it is-or-would-be because God can make anything work well if both have the proper attitude toward God and each other - such that He can bring the two of them together harmoniously and bless them for their willingness to be together and work together to make it work - as in a prearranged marriage in some cultures, for example.

But, in general, I believe there are so many variables involved that determining compatibility can become a very complex undertaking - especially in the modern day, where other issues like the C19 jabs can become the most significant determining factors of all.

 

[Lynx]

I think Lynx is serious about it 😊

I'm not ABLE to be serious about it. Like, literally... I w*rk Saturdays so I wouldn't be able to get there in time for a date Saturday night.

 

[Edith]

Romans 8 verse 31b, Hebrews 13 verse 6 ~ If God is for us, who can be against us? So we say with confidence: “The Lord is my helper; I will not be afraid. What can man do to me?”

Cute thank you.

 

[Edith]

Were they genuinely Christians? Perhaps those men weren't looking for someone to marry. Sometimes, regardless of how nice or good a man is, he's not the one for you. There are nice men who aren't the right fit. Are you worried they might lose interest or stop pursuing you? If so, don't be scared. Continue honoring God through self-control. The right person will come along, no matter how long the wait is, if it's God's will for you to get married. I married at 46.

Wooow that is a great testimony