Israel.

[HealthAndHappiness]

I do believe these verses were fulfilled in the first century as the gentiles they being not a particular nation, but I will need to formulate my response more fully to demonstrate why I believe it to be so.

Paul reiterates it in Romans 10:19.

I can only think of one place where those distinct tribes now exist.
Since I don't see...

A. A genealogy anywhere on earth for the past 2,000 years
B. Those currently claiming to be the nation of Israel, seeds of Abraham in any significant numbers getting saved...

This narrows down the possible interpretation.

 

[lrs68]

All prophecy pertaining to Israel will be fulfilled. You just have the wrong location. If Jerusalem is above and Mt Zion is above, then Israel must also be above.

But ye are come unto Mount Zion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than [that of] Abel. Hebrews 12:22-24​

It will be, is the key emphasis, fulfilled.

 

[NeutralZone]

Not anymore, Gideon300. After they rejected Jesus as the Messiah and prodded the Roman government to execute him, that was the final nail in their coffin in terms of their being considered God's chosen people. Scripture confirms that.

Read Romans 9, this grace given to the Gentiles without Law or tradition to do, is to make the first chosen jealous as I see what happened in Acts, when Peter went to the house of the gentiles, Cornelius's house. and entered that Gentile house illegally, and said so, yet by God was told to enter and trust Father to preach to them, when entered. Then God spoke to them through Peter's flesh. Peter did not speak truth, God did through Peter and they were saved without any rituals, water Baptism or anything. Peter the next Chapter of Acts, I think was 10 or 11, went to his fellow people, the other disciples and said to them, what he saw happen.
Amazing God loves us all y'all, proven to me in Jesus going willing to death, once for all to be first reconciled as forgiven, everyone as forgiven, (2 Cor 5:17-20) then risen where new life is given by Father to all that are sincere in belief to God and have no ulterior motives to get anything else but new life given them. These that get this, know that God, believe that God will supply every need needed. Thanks

I will when you provide the exact verse(s) at Romans chapter 9 that you want to direct my attention to.

 

[NeutralZone]

Not anymore, Gideon300. After they rejected Jesus as the Messiah and prodded the Roman government to execute him, that was the final nail in their coffin in terms of their being considered God's chosen people. Scripture confirms that.

Amazing God loves us all y'all, proven to me in Jesus going willing to death, once for all to be first reconciled as forgiven, everyone as forgiven, (2 Cor 5:17-20) then risen where new life is given by Father to all that are sincere in belief to God and have no ulterior motives to get anything else but new life given them. These that get this, know that God, believe that God will supply every need needed. Thanks

Nowhere in 2 Corinthians 5:17-20 does it say everyone is forgiven. Those verses simply say humanity is given the opportunity to become reconciled with Almighty God.

 

[Genez]

I should go on record to say I absolutely believe God's plan with the Hebrew people is not complete.

During the Millennium we shall find our home in Heaven, while the Lord will have faithful ones from the Church reigning with Him.

During that time Jesus will be seated on the Throne of David in Jerusalem, having redeemed Jews as His subjects of blessing.

During those 1000 years Gentiles will be enthralled with the Lord and will long to visit the blessed city of Jerusalem.
It is at that time that the following passage places us on that scene...

This is what the Lord Almighty says: “In those days ten people from all languages and nations ​

will take firm hold of one Jew by the hem of his robe and say, ‘Let us go with you, because we ​

have heard that God is with you.’” Zechariah 8:23​

God is definitely not done with the Jews!
At present, God is bringing in His Church to fulfill a different purpose in God's plan for eternity.


grace and peace ............

 

[Gideon300]

lol they were the first country in Europe to expel Jews in 1290 and afterwards became the largest empire in history.

The persecution of Jews ended under Oliver Cromwell. Benjamin Disraeli, twice PM of Britain, was a Jew. He did convert to Anglicanism, but his ethnicity obviously did not change. He was the founder of the Conservative Party of the UK. About 200,000 Jews came to the UK to escape pogroms in Russia.

Anti Jewish sentiment in the early 20th century led to the "Aliens Act" of 1905. It was not overtly antisemitic, but that's what it was in effect. Less than 10 years later, Britain was at war with Germany. Considering the close ties between the monarchy and German nobility, including a Hanoverian king in 1714, that was pretty surprising. Britain need not have joined WW1. France was not overrun the way she was in WW2. Adolf Hitler did not expect Britain to join the war against him.

Britain's main offence against the Jews was prior to independence of Israel. Britain administered the region (not nation) of Palestine. Britain restricted Jewish immigration, sending many back to Europe to be exterminated by Hitler. Britain did not formally recognise the state of Israel until April 1950.

In contrast, America recognised the Jewish state 11 minutes after Israel declared independence. America has generally supported Israel since. Britain, in contrast, has become beholden to Muslim countries. Britain is well on the way to becoming an Islamic republic. God is not mocked. God's promises to Abraham hold good now.

 

[Gideon300]

Nowhere in 2 Corinthians 5:17-20 does it say everyone is forgiven. Those verses simply say humanity is given the opportunity to become reconciled with Almighty God.

So you reject Paul's dissertation in Romans 9,19 and 11? I do not. It took miracles for Israel to be restored to a nation, miracles for Israel to survive the war that followed independence, and miracles to survive and prosper ever since.

Jews paid an horrific price for their rebellion and for rejecting Jesus. 6 million suffered under Nazi Germany. Many European nations persecuted Jews and some still do. Jews have been driven out of every Arab nation, including places they'd lived since the fall of Jerusalem. God promised to restore Israel and that is exactly what has happened.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

All prophecy pertaining to Israel will be fulfilled. You just have the wrong location. If Jerusalem is above and Mt Zion is above, then Israel must also be above.

But ye are come unto Mount Zion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than [that of] Abel. Hebrews 12:22-24​

“These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:13-14, 16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Pilgrimshope]

So you reject Paul's dissertation in Romans 9,19 and 11? I do not. It took miracles for Israel to be restored to a nation, miracles for Israel to survive the war that followed independence, and miracles to survive and prosper ever since.

Jews paid an horrific price for their rebellion and for rejecting Jesus. 6 million suffered under Nazi Germany. Many European nations persecuted Jews and some still do. Jews have been driven out of every Arab nation, including places they'd lived since the fall of Jerusalem. God promised to restore Israel and that is exactly what has happened.

“Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God:

but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭9:6-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:26-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

God doesn’t identify israel like he did under the Old Testament it’s by the spirit of Christ now whoever accepts Christ and the gospel whether a Jew or gentile doesn’t matter then they are Gods chosen hiers in him

 

[GWH]

There are some who doubt the role of Israel in God's plan and purpose. If that is so, perhaps you can explain this from the book of Revelation.
Revelation 7:3-8
“Do not harm the land or sea or trees until we have placed a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.”

And I heard the number of those who were sealed, 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel:

From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben 12,000, from the tribe of Gad 12,000, from the tribe of Asher 12,000,
from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000, from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000, from the tribe of Simeon 12,000, from the tribe of Levi 12,000, from the tribe of Issachar 12,000, from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000, from the tribe of Joseph 12,000, and from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000.

Also Romans 11: 25 & 26.
I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you will not be conceited: A hardening in part has come to Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The Deliverer will come from Zion; He will remove godlessness from Jacob.

These things are obviously future. God is not done with Israel yet.

It is noteworthy that the tribe of Dan is not included in the 144,000. God rejected Dan because they allied themselves with the Philistines instead of conquering them as God had commanded. That compromise caused great trouble for Israel later on. We do well not to compromise with God's enemies.

Okay, but it should be understood that physical Israel will only become done
when they become one with spiritual Israel per Paul in Romans 2:25-29 & 9:1-8.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

The persecution of Jews ended under Oliver Cromwell. Benjamin Disraeli, twice PM of Britain, was a Jew. He did convert to Anglicanism, but his ethnicity obviously did not change. He was the founder of the Conservative Party of the UK. About 200,000 Jews came to the UK to escape pogroms in Russia.

Anti Jewish sentiment in the early 20th century led to the "Aliens Act" of 1905. It was not overtly antisemitic, but that's what it was in effect. Less than 10 years later, Britain was at war with Germany. Considering the close ties between the monarchy and German nobility, including a Hanoverian king in 1714, that was pretty surprising. Britain need not have joined WW1. France was not overrun the way she was in WW2. Adolf Hitler did not expect Britain to join the war against him.

Britain's main offence against the Jews was prior to independence of Israel. Britain administered the region (not nation) of Palestine. Britain restricted Jewish immigration, sending many back to Europe to be exterminated by Hitler. Britain did not formally recognise the state of Israel until April 1950.

In contrast, America recognised the Jewish state 11 minutes after Israel declared independence. America has generally supported Israel since. Britain, in contrast, has become beholden to Muslim countries. Britain is well on the way to becoming an Islamic republic. God is not mocked. God's promises to Abraham hold good now.

Israel wouldn't exist without Britain (Balfour Declaration), so your reasoning is just twisted and weird. Where do you get the idea that ethnicity has anything to do with God when Jesus clearly said it didn't.

And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to [our] father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. Matthew 3:9​

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

“These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:13-14, 16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The corollary to this is that God is ashamed of those who seek an earthly country

 

[homwardbound]

Man people, desire to be leader and so we have wars and rumors of wars still. God's first chosen was for to reveal truth, we the people can't do it, yet Pride takes us all for rides into the Abyss, did me and so I stopped, repented from independence and dependance on flesh self and flesh others, thank you, being under Law that brings out the curse of the flesh in the first Adam to me at least
We the people had to know we can't do the Law perfectly,, so God did to for us all to believe God and be freed from stress, strife and death, to live new more abundantly, in the present troubles going on here on earth.
Authorized (King James) Version

Matthew 21:38

38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.

Fortunately Son is risen and new life is given and a new Law as in the true Covenant meant all along even under Law yet was misunderstood and still is, When it is love to all that won and wins from God
Hebrews 7:11
If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
Hebrews 7:12
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
Hebrews 6:10
For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed
toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.
Hebrews 10:24
and let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

Yet discern this: whether it is doing good works of self or of Father and Son's least please, motive in incredibly important I see as in


Authorized (King James) Version

1 Corinthians 13:1-3

13 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
therefore, God leads, is the call to be willing to God, not self or others for any self gain, to me at least, thanks

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The corollary to this is that God is ashamed of those who seek an earthly country

Yeah “ my kingdom is not of this world “ this current earth is defiled because of the breaking of the covenant

“The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant. Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left. Fear, and the pit, and the snare, are upon thee, O inhabitant of the earth. The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭24:5-6, 17, 20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

abut there’s a promise regarding a new earth after this one ends

“But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

….Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:10, 13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[homwardbound]

I will when you provide the exact verse(s) at Romans chapter 9 that you want to direct my attention to.

Best to read the whole, not cherry pick and remain dead using verses over verses and be out of context, people trying to convince people they are right and you are wrong, uno thank you.
Please in reading any verse used, please read at least 25 verses before and after the verse to get the truth, and take all to Father in prayer to know truth over error, even if it takes time to hear and understand, which it does, once Father seals anyone to see the truth, will see Eph 1:1-13
Accepted, forgiven and sealed by God to see and stand in belief to God or not, each person consciously knows, no excuses, thanks
Everyone is left to choose after the death took away all sin first in /Father's sight for us to be made new by God, only, not the self or anyone else. This is for us all to appreciate and not misuse for any self gain over anyone else's loss, as goes on today presently, people want to be in charge over others, wow, no thank you.

Authorized (King James) Version

1 Cor 13:1-3

13 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

 

[homwardbound]

Nowhere in 2 Corinthians 5:17-20 does it say everyone is forgiven. Those verses simply say humanity is given the opportunity to become reconciled with Almighty God.

Okay

Authorized (King James) Version

2 Cor 5:17-20

17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 19 to wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. 20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God.

I stand in trust to God to work out anyone and everyones salvation between God and them to share between each other this love and mercy given us all in risen Son
For that is what is given
Love all as I, God by Son have loved you
John 13:34
A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

This question remains then for us all, How does God love us? Then as one, anyone thinks God loves them first, will be how one, anyone responds to others

1 John 2:8
Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.

God, loves us all y'all

 

[HeIsHere]

Not anymore, Gideon300. After they rejected Jesus as the Messiah and prodded the Roman government to execute him, that was the final nail in their coffin in terms of their being considered God's chosen people. Scripture confirms that.

Scripture gets pushed aside, argued against unsuccessfully, when it does not fit the prevailing narrative.