Israel.

[HealthAndHappiness]

I do believe these verses were fulfilled in the first century as the gentiles they being not a particular nation, but I will need to formulate my response more fully to demonstrate why I believe it to be so.

Paul reiterates it in Romans 10:19.

I can only think of one place where those distinct tribes now exist.
Since I don't see...

A. A genealogy anywhere on earth for the past 2,000 years
B. Those currently claiming to be the nation of Israel, seeds of Abraham in any significant numbers getting saved...

This narrows down the possible interpretation.

 

[lrs68]

All prophecy pertaining to Israel will be fulfilled. You just have the wrong location. If Jerusalem is above and Mt Zion is above, then Israel must also be above.

But ye are come unto Mount Zion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than [that of] Abel. Hebrews 12:22-24​

It will be, is the key emphasis, fulfilled.

 

[NeutralZone]

Not anymore, Gideon300. After they rejected Jesus as the Messiah and prodded the Roman government to execute him, that was the final nail in their coffin in terms of their being considered God's chosen people. Scripture confirms that.

Read Romans 9, this grace given to the Gentiles without Law or tradition to do, is to make the first chosen jealous as I see what happened in Acts, when Peter went to the house of the gentiles, Cornelius's house. and entered that Gentile house illegally, and said so, yet by God was told to enter and trust Father to preach to them, when entered. Then God spoke to them through Peter's flesh. Peter did not speak truth, God did through Peter and they were saved without any rituals, water Baptism or anything. Peter the next Chapter of Acts, I think was 10 or 11, went to his fellow people, the other disciples and said to them, what he saw happen.
Amazing God loves us all y'all, proven to me in Jesus going willing to death, once for all to be first reconciled as forgiven, everyone as forgiven, (2 Cor 5:17-20) then risen where new life is given by Father to all that are sincere in belief to God and have no ulterior motives to get anything else but new life given them. These that get this, know that God, believe that God will supply every need needed. Thanks

I will when you provide the exact verse(s) at Romans chapter 9 that you want to direct my attention to.

 

[NeutralZone]

Not anymore, Gideon300. After they rejected Jesus as the Messiah and prodded the Roman government to execute him, that was the final nail in their coffin in terms of their being considered God's chosen people. Scripture confirms that.

Amazing God loves us all y'all, proven to me in Jesus going willing to death, once for all to be first reconciled as forgiven, everyone as forgiven, (2 Cor 5:17-20) then risen where new life is given by Father to all that are sincere in belief to God and have no ulterior motives to get anything else but new life given them. These that get this, know that God, believe that God will supply every need needed. Thanks

Nowhere in 2 Corinthians 5:17-20 does it say everyone is forgiven. Those verses simply say humanity is given the opportunity to become reconciled with Almighty God.

 

[Genez]

I should go on record to say I absolutely believe God's plan with the Hebrew people is not complete.

During the Millennium we shall find our home in Heaven, while the Lord will have faithful ones from the Church reigning with Him.

During that time Jesus will be seated on the Throne of David in Jerusalem, having redeemed Jews as His subjects of blessing.

During those 1000 years Gentiles will be enthralled with the Lord and will long to visit the blessed city of Jerusalem.
It is at that time that the following passage places us on that scene...

This is what the Lord Almighty says: “In those days ten people from all languages and nations ​

will take firm hold of one Jew by the hem of his robe and say, ‘Let us go with you, because we ​

have heard that God is with you.’” Zechariah 8:23​

God is definitely not done with the Jews!
At present, God is bringing in His Church to fulfill a different purpose in God's plan for eternity.


grace and peace ............

 

[Gideon300]

lol they were the first country in Europe to expel Jews in 1290 and afterwards became the largest empire in history.

The persecution of Jews ended under Oliver Cromwell. Benjamin Disraeli, twice PM of Britain, was a Jew. He did convert to Anglicanism, but his ethnicity obviously did not change. He was the founder of the Conservative Party of the UK. About 200,000 Jews came to the UK to escape pogroms in Russia.

Anti Jewish sentiment in the early 20th century led to the "Aliens Act" of 1905. It was not overtly antisemitic, but that's what it was in effect. Less than 10 years later, Britain was at war with Germany. Considering the close ties between the monarchy and German nobility, including a Hanoverian king in 1714, that was pretty surprising. Britain need not have joined WW1. France was not overrun the way she was in WW2. Adolf Hitler did not expect Britain to join the war against him.

Britain's main offence against the Jews was prior to independence of Israel. Britain administered the region (not nation) of Palestine. Britain restricted Jewish immigration, sending many back to Europe to be exterminated by Hitler. Britain did not formally recognise the state of Israel until April 1950.

In contrast, America recognised the Jewish state 11 minutes after Israel declared independence. America has generally supported Israel since. Britain, in contrast, has become beholden to Muslim countries. Britain is well on the way to becoming an Islamic republic. God is not mocked. God's promises to Abraham hold good now.

 

[Gideon300]

Nowhere in 2 Corinthians 5:17-20 does it say everyone is forgiven. Those verses simply say humanity is given the opportunity to become reconciled with Almighty God.

So you reject Paul's dissertation in Romans 9,19 and 11? I do not. It took miracles for Israel to be restored to a nation, miracles for Israel to survive the war that followed independence, and miracles to survive and prosper ever since.

Jews paid an horrific price for their rebellion and for rejecting Jesus. 6 million suffered under Nazi Germany. Many European nations persecuted Jews and some still do. Jews have been driven out of every Arab nation, including places they'd lived since the fall of Jerusalem. God promised to restore Israel and that is exactly what has happened.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

All prophecy pertaining to Israel will be fulfilled. You just have the wrong location. If Jerusalem is above and Mt Zion is above, then Israel must also be above.

But ye are come unto Mount Zion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than [that of] Abel. Hebrews 12:22-24​

“These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:13-14, 16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Pilgrimshope]

So you reject Paul's dissertation in Romans 9,19 and 11? I do not. It took miracles for Israel to be restored to a nation, miracles for Israel to survive the war that followed independence, and miracles to survive and prosper ever since.

Jews paid an horrific price for their rebellion and for rejecting Jesus. 6 million suffered under Nazi Germany. Many European nations persecuted Jews and some still do. Jews have been driven out of every Arab nation, including places they'd lived since the fall of Jerusalem. God promised to restore Israel and that is exactly what has happened.

“Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God:

but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭9:6-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:26-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

God doesn’t identify israel like he did under the Old Testament it’s by the spirit of Christ now whoever accepts Christ and the gospel whether a Jew or gentile doesn’t matter then they are Gods chosen hiers in him

 

[GWH]

There are some who doubt the role of Israel in God's plan and purpose. If that is so, perhaps you can explain this from the book of Revelation.
Revelation 7:3-8
“Do not harm the land or sea or trees until we have placed a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.”

And I heard the number of those who were sealed, 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel:

From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben 12,000, from the tribe of Gad 12,000, from the tribe of Asher 12,000,
from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000, from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000, from the tribe of Simeon 12,000, from the tribe of Levi 12,000, from the tribe of Issachar 12,000, from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000, from the tribe of Joseph 12,000, and from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000.

Also Romans 11: 25 & 26.
I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you will not be conceited: A hardening in part has come to Israel, until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The Deliverer will come from Zion; He will remove godlessness from Jacob.

These things are obviously future. God is not done with Israel yet.

It is noteworthy that the tribe of Dan is not included in the 144,000. God rejected Dan because they allied themselves with the Philistines instead of conquering them as God had commanded. That compromise caused great trouble for Israel later on. We do well not to compromise with God's enemies.

Okay, but it should be understood that physical Israel will only become done
when they become one with spiritual Israel per Paul in Romans 2:25-29 & 9:1-8.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

The persecution of Jews ended under Oliver Cromwell. Benjamin Disraeli, twice PM of Britain, was a Jew. He did convert to Anglicanism, but his ethnicity obviously did not change. He was the founder of the Conservative Party of the UK. About 200,000 Jews came to the UK to escape pogroms in Russia.

Anti Jewish sentiment in the early 20th century led to the "Aliens Act" of 1905. It was not overtly antisemitic, but that's what it was in effect. Less than 10 years later, Britain was at war with Germany. Considering the close ties between the monarchy and German nobility, including a Hanoverian king in 1714, that was pretty surprising. Britain need not have joined WW1. France was not overrun the way she was in WW2. Adolf Hitler did not expect Britain to join the war against him.

Britain's main offence against the Jews was prior to independence of Israel. Britain administered the region (not nation) of Palestine. Britain restricted Jewish immigration, sending many back to Europe to be exterminated by Hitler. Britain did not formally recognise the state of Israel until April 1950.

In contrast, America recognised the Jewish state 11 minutes after Israel declared independence. America has generally supported Israel since. Britain, in contrast, has become beholden to Muslim countries. Britain is well on the way to becoming an Islamic republic. God is not mocked. God's promises to Abraham hold good now.

Israel wouldn't exist without Britain (Balfour Declaration), so your reasoning is just twisted and weird. Where do you get the idea that ethnicity has anything to do with God when Jesus clearly said it didn't.

And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to [our] father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. Matthew 3:9​

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

“These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:13-14, 16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The corollary to this is that God is ashamed of those who seek an earthly country