Iran attacks Israel, sends hundreds of drones, missiles

[ZNP]

Kenneth L. Gentry makes a very good argument, I think his book is now open source so it can be found online.

I am pretty sure you will work to refute what he writes, but then that is your choice.

Basis for saying Revelation was written around 95 AD

Irenaeus
Irenaeus (A.D. 180), a student of Polycarp (who was a disciple of the apostle John), wrote that the apocalyptic vision “was seen not very long ago, almost in our own generation, at the close of the reign of Domitian” (Against Heresies 30). The testimony of Irenaeus, not far removed from the apostolic age, is first rate. He places the book near the end of Domitian’s reign, and that ruler died in A.D. 96. Irenaeus seems to be unaware of any other view for the date of the book of Revelation.

Clement of Alexandria
Clement of Alexandria (A.D. 155-215) says that John returned from the isle of Patmos “after the tyrant was dead” (Who Is the Rich Man? 42), and Eusebius, known as the “Father of Church History,” identifies the “tyrant” as Domitian (Ecclesiastical History III.23).

Even Moses Stuart, America’s most prominent preterist, admitted that the “tyrant here meant is probably Domitian.” Within this narrative, Clement further speaks of John as an “old man.” If Revelation was written prior to A.D. 70, it would scarcely seem appropriate to refer to John as an old man, since he would only have been in his early sixties at this time.

Victorinus
Victorinus (late third century), author of the earliest commentary on the book of Revelation, wrote:

When John said these things, he was in the island of Patmos, condemned to the mines by Caesar Domitian. There he saw the Apocalypse; and when at length grown old, he thought that he should receive his release by suffering; but Domitian being killed, he was liberated (Commentary on Revelation 10:11).​

Jerome
Jerome (A.D. 340-420) said,

In the fourteenth then after Nero, Domitian having raised up a second persecution, he [John] was banished to the island of Patmos, and wrote the Apocalypse (Lives of Illustrious Men 9).​

To all of this may be added the comment of Eusebius, who contends that the historical tradition of his time (A.D. 324) placed the writing of the Apocalypse at the close of Domitian’s reign (III.18). McClintock and Strong, in contending for the later date, declare that “there is no mention in any writer of the first three centuries of any other time or place” (1969, 1064). Upon the basis of external evidence, therefore, there is little contest between the earlier and later dates.

https://christiancourier.com/articles/when-was-the-book-of-revelation-written

If he addresses this evidence from these earlier writers and gives a valid reason to question them then I would be interested, but if it is another absurd "it must be before 70 AD otherwise my doctrine is wrong" reason then no thanks, not interested in the clown show.

 

[HeIsHere]

If he addresses this evidence from these earlier writers and gives a valid reason to question them then I would be interested, but if it is another absurd "it must be before 70 AD otherwise my doctrine is wrong" reason then no thanks, not interested in the clown show.

Like I stated your choice. I can plainly trust the words of Christ Jesus, I need no other proof.

 

[ZNP]

Basis for saying Revelation was written around 95 AD (part 2)

Internal Evidence
The contents of the book of Revelation also suggest a late date, as the following observations indicate.

The spiritual conditions of the churches described in Revelation chapters two and three more readily harmonize with the late date.

The church in Ephesus, for instance, was not founded by Paul until the latter part of Claudius’s reign: and when he wrote to them from Rome, A.D. 61, instead of reproving them for any want of love, he commends their love and faith (Eph. 1:15) (Horne 1841, 382).

Yet, when Revelation was written, in spite of the fact that the Ephesians had been patient (2:2), they had also left their first love (v. 4), and this would seem to require a greater length of time than seven or eight years, as suggested by the early date.

Another internal evidence of a late date is that this book was penned while John was banished to Patmos (1:9). It is well known that Domitian had a fondness for this type of persecution. If, however, this persecution is dated in the time of Nero, how does one account for the fact that Peter and Paul are murdered, yet John is only exiled to an island? (Eusebius III.18; II.25).

Then consider this fact. The church at Laodicea is represented as existing under conditions of great wealth. She was rich and had need of nothing (3:17). In A.D. 60, though, Laodicea had been almost entirely destroyed by an earthquake. Surely it would have required more than eight or nine years for that city to have risen again to the state of affluence described in Revelation.

The doctrinal departures described in Revelation would appear to better fit the later dating. For example, the Nicolaitans (2:6, 15) were a full-fledged sect at the time of John’s writing, whereas they had only been hinted at in general terms in 2 Peter and Jude, which were written possibly around A.D. 65-66.

Persecution for professing the Christian faith is evidenced in those early letters to the seven churches of Asia Minor. For instance, Antipas had been killed in Pergamum (2:13). It is generally agreed among scholars, however, that Nero’s persecution was mostly confined to Rome; further, it was not for religious reasons (Harrison 1964, 446).

https://christiancourier.com/articles/when-was-the-book-of-revelation-written

 

[ZNP]

Revelation 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Why would the great city of Jerusalem be called (past tense) Sodom? This suggests that the book was written after 70 AD and not before it.

 

[ZNP]

Basis for saying Revelation was written around 95 AD (part 3)

The main reason they claim it was written at the time of Nero before 70 AD

Nero Associated with 666
Some argue for an early date of the Apocalypse by asserting that the enigmatic 666 (13:18) is a reference to Nero. This is possible only by pursuing the most irresponsible form of exegesis.

To come up with such an interpretation one must:

1. add the title “Caesar” to Nero’s name;
2. compute the letter-number arrangement on the basis of Hebrew, whereas the book was written in Greek; and
3. alter the spelling of “Caesar” by dropping the yodh in the Hebrew.

All of this reveals a truly desperate attempt to find a reference to Nero in the text.

Additionally, Leon Morris has pointed out that Irenaeus discussed a number of possibilities for deciphering the 666, but he did not even include Nero in his list, let alone regard this as a likely conjecture (1980, 38). Noted critic Theodor Zahn observed that Nero was not even suggested as a possibility until the year 1831 (447).

https://christiancourier.com/articles/when-was-the-book-of-revelation-written

 

[ZNP]

Like I stated your choice. I can plainly trust the words of Christ Jesus, I need no other proof.

That is what I expected, no proof. Nothing. I have provided references to writers at the time, and to evidence in the writing of Revelation and I have addressed the main evidence that they do put forth showing how it is the most deceitful of bible exposition. (See posts #681, 683, 684 and 685)

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

I think the concept of "world wide" can be debated from scripture.
I think my main concern is how a futurist eschatology has given Christians an out... it becomes "well this is God's will and nothing we can do to stop it" except for the fact it already happened and in fact it is a forced eschatology/counterfeit.

Along with the problematic beleif that there are people who are exceptional, that is just wrong according to the NT.

I guess we disagree here, that's okay, but if you look up Law of Liberty on You Tube,

( am not going to post the link, I am sparing people getting triggered, lol)

he talks about how Baptist churches have been overtaken by Calvinism and Dispensationalism in the last 50 to 100 years.

It is something to be aware of.

This was in the comments.... sad but true >>> Evangelicals have become Warvangelicals.

I've listened to some of Adam Fannin's sermons when he was an evangelist.
I agree from a few of my local churches that there are Baptist ones that teach those belief systems.
That's not the traditional IBCs that were kicked out of the SBC fellowship though. However, many of those in the next gen were influenced for sure.
I've noticed at a preacher's conference many decided to follow Fox News, etc in regards to past wars in the Middle East. Both sides of the paradigm actually promoted those wars at the times the propaganda campaigns told them to.

I learned that your points were spread by C.I. Schofield and his sponsors.
They had a business model that promoted his study Bible, full of marginal notes, to every evangelical and Baptist Bible college/ seminaries.
They gave them away free to every teacher and pastoral student.
It worked as a loss leader. Schofield's publisher was paid by Jewish investors.
That seems strange coming from those who hated Jesus. Then that multiplied with the popularity of taking the most popular Bible (book) ever published in history, King James Bible, and adding the persuasive marginal notes. That was like adding cyanide to the pure water if the Word. (To use a familiar analogy.)> See This as in perfect timing just notified.< 📖😄👍🏻

This did two, perhaps three things:

1. Spread Darby's (hence Schofield's) teachings on dispensationalism.

2. It persuaded the pastors (teachers) to lead the biggest Christian denominations into full blown Zionism. There are entire books and >Documentaries < on the topic.

3. It effectively undermined faith in The Traditional Text and the Bible in the universal language at this time in history. It did this by using a method of appearing to be allied with Bible believers. Then in their own Bibles Satan said, "Hath God said?"
"In the oldest and best/ most accurate manuscripts, this verse or that verse really isn't there." There are a hundred variations on the statement given by Schofield. He did not even believe the Bible, yet born again Christians continue to take HIS word as gospel truth.

What he accomplished was to convince pastors and believers in millions of pews that the libturd German "higher" critics lies from Satan were actually true. The lazy preachers refused to so much as investigate the history and closed their minds to God's discernment about that which He holds in the utmost regard.

Yes, I coined that term because many are retarded from vaccines they were injected with against their will as children. Sadly, they cannot help but suffer that disability.
However, I count the arrogant servants of Satan, who undermined the faith of countless millions from their German seminaries as dung.
Hence I decided to change the urban slang "libtard" term to libturd . Feel free to use it freely.
☕😎👍🏻📖