Can We Really Exercise Free Will?

[cv5]

Interesting.. ChatGPT

Most philosophers don’t fully assert that humans have absolute control over every outcome in the world, but rather that we have varying degrees of influence—whether that’s through aligning with a metaphysical force, self-mastery, or the sheer force of will.

The Law of Attraction might be the modern view that leans into the idea of total control over one’s outcomes through mental power and manifestation, though it remains controversial.

So generally speaking this definition of "free will" as the >>>> ability of absolute control of outcomes is an outlier and not about how "freely" one can exercise one's will.

Indeed, humans are "limited" creatures and their free will does likewise have limits in terms of their capacity to exercise and manifest it.

However we are responsible for what decisions we make nevertheless.

Furthermore, God certainly limits the free will and intent of men to do evil. This is His prerogative as Creator and Judge according to His own free will.

Yes, that's right......free will all the way around. The bad choices get judgement, the good choices praise and glory.

Luk 19:17 - And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.

Can I get an amen?

 

[studier]

Can I get an amen?

You're free to choose to invite all to choose to respond as you desire:

• but we're unable to, so why did you invite us.
• but we're unable to unless you give us a gift first.
• but we're unable to so you'll need to force us - or at least some of us so please let us know who you choose.
• and we're able to and I choose to reject you.
• and we're able to and I choose to accept your invitation, so, Amen!
  • But I may retract it later if I don't want to deal with you anymore.

 

[GWH]

Irresistible comment to me, thought much about it myself. I too think saying he can't sin isn't right, i describe it as there being no wrong in him. He has pure free will.

And that prompts me to post this:

A third problematic issue not as commonly debated as the others concerns the freedom of God. Can God be evil? Is God the Father able to change His will, is God the Son free to sin, and could God the Holy Spirit become demonic? Is it possible for God to be tricky? If God cannot do what He has decreed to be evil, then He would not be as free as volitional creatures, and there would be no basis for praising His holiness. Paul (in Rom. 9:16-21) upholds the freedom of God to love or hate as He chooses. Just as God created physical laws such as gravity, so He created moral laws such as “love everyone” and determined a plan of salvation involving the atoning death of Messiah to win our redemption from hell. Thou shalt love (Matt. 22:37-40).

The cliche “might makes right” is true; it is because God is almighty that only He can determine what is right ultimately. There is no super-divine authority that determines God; God is self-determined. The only basis humans have for evaluating whether God is just is understanding how God’s acts and judgments are consistent with the moral principles He has ordained for those created in His image (Rom. 3:22-26). God’s decision to be all-loving is rational, because God is pleased by doing good for creatures, but it is free because God could have chosen to anoint Satan to embody evil logic/lies rather than Jesus to manifest love and truth (John 1:14, Phil. 2:9-11), and this earthly existence would be hell (Rev. 19:11-13, 20:7-10 & 21:6-8).

If God were ever to change His mind, it would mean that God is tricky and that morality is ultimately arbitrary. Thus, ultimate reality would indeed be a farce (although we are unable to imagine an alternative moral reality in detail, cf. Kant). This is why we should not take God and divine love for granted. Instead, we should be eternally grateful that God has decreed loving to be right, and He promises never to change (Mal. 3:6). Let us praise God in the spirit of Psalm 66:1: “Shout with joy to God, all the earth! Sing to the glory of his name; Offer him glory and praise!”

 

[GWH]

Indeed, humans are "limited" creatures and their free will does likewise have limits in terms of their capacity to exercise and manifest it.

However we are responsible for what decisions we make nevertheless.

Furthermore, God certainly limits the free will and intent of men to do evil. This is His prerogative as Creator and Judge according to His own free will.

Yes, that's right......free will all the way around. The bad choices get judgement, the good choices praise and glory.

Luk 19:17 - And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.

Can I get an amen?

Well, instead of an amen I will share this question: Have y'all ever contemplated the truth that you could be a more horrible sinner than Hitler, but for the grace of God prompting you not to choose that route?

 

[studier]

Well, instead of an amen I will share this question: Have y'all ever contemplated the truth that you could be a more horrible sinner than Hitler, but for the grace of God prompting you not to choose that route?

Explain that grace please.

 

[Mem]

God has determined that everyone, not overlooking their sins but having dealt with them on the cross, and so everyone that believes that, is to be saved. And this is not of human will seeing that sin is constituted within the human as a willingness to sin. Those are who God has 'elected' (chose; voted) to save. That is, those that have come to their decisive cross(road, i.e. way) recognizing they are sinners and so consequently lost as to have no hope but God for salvation. They repent of their unbelief and if so much as (geniunely) wish (will) to believe, God possesses adequate means to measure even an iota of sincerity of any degree of will (or want) to believe (what they've heard by the Word) and will (as in 'does not want to frustrate, disapoint), faithfully, (somethingsomething as opposed to nothingnothing) that hope.

 

[studier]

Insert image? But what if I am the image of God?

Then even more, insert image, or at least keep speaking His mind and we'll use our free will within its confines to choose to imagine and learn and imitate His image.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

And you did, and well.

I’ve thought for a long time now if we find the consistent themes in the Bible it helps like the situation and dynamic of the interaction between God and his creation with mankind as it’s overseer what I mean is if you find themes like this

“And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

already we see this being set up by God

“The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD's:

But the earth hath he given to the children of men.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭115:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

awe can see thisnis Gods own design to put mankind made in his image as the rulers on earth. But we see a bifurcation of the creation as in a realm of the lord ( the heavens ) and the realm of mankind ( the earth ) as we move along we begin to notice how the interactions happen

“The LORD is in his holy temple, The LORD's throne is in heaven:

His eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men.”( on earth )
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭11:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We see this consistent concept of God watching mankind from the heavens

At first

“And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

About ten generations later we see a drastic change and even see what happened

“And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:5-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So what does this mean for the earth that was given to mankind to rule ? It means that what god just called very good became this on his eyes

“The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence. And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth. And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:11-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

You can actually see this play out repeatedly in scripture here’s another example much later after israel was chosen and given thier covenant law and had broken it many times over

“The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, To see if there were any that did understand, And seek God. They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: There is none that doeth good, no, not one.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭14:2-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And again this time we begin to hear his plan from heaven as he looks upon the earth in its corrupt state

“Yea, truth faileth; and he that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey: and the LORD saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgment. And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him. For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and an helmet of salvation upon his head; and he put on the garments of vengeance for clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloke. And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭59:15-17, 20‬ ‭

and so on but remember how god has the heavens and gave earth to man ????

That’s why Jesus became “the son of man “ we went from this which is why earth became corrupted

The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD's:

But the earth hath he given to the children of men.”

To now this praise God !!!

“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:18-20‬


Now the earths dominion belongs to God who became the son of man and inherited the earth …. As Adam once had done to its demise , so Christ has done and it will end in its glory

 

[studier]

I’ve thought for a long time now if we find the consistent themes in the Bible it helps like the situation and dynamic of the interaction between God and his creation with mankind as it’s overseer what I mean is if you find themes like this

“And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

already we see this being set up by God

“The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD's:

But the earth hath he given to the children of men.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭115:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

awe can see thisnis Gods own design to put mankind made in his image as the rulers on earth. But we see a bifurcation of the creation as in a realm of the lord ( the heavens ) and the realm of mankind ( the earth ) as we move along we begin to notice how the interactions happen

“The LORD is in his holy temple, The LORD's throne is in heaven:

His eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men.”( on earth )
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭11:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We see this consistent concept of God watching mankind from the heavens

At first

“And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

About ten generations later we see a drastic change and even see what happened

“And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:5-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So what does this mean for the earth that was given to mankind to rule ? It means that what god just called very good became this on his eyes

“The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence. And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth. And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭6:11-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

You can actually see this play out repeatedly in scripture here’s another example much later after israel was chosen and given thier covenant law and had broken it many times over

“The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, To see if there were any that did understand, And seek God. They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: There is none that doeth good, no, not one.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭14:2-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And again this time we begin to hear his plan from heaven as he looks upon the earth in its corrupt state

“Yea, truth faileth; and he that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey: and the LORD saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgment. And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him. For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and an helmet of salvation upon his head; and he put on the garments of vengeance for clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloke. And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭59:15-17, 20‬ ‭

and so on but remember how god has the heavens and gave earth to man ????

That’s why Jesus became “the son of man “ we went from this which is why earth became corrupted

The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD's:

But the earth hath he given to the children of men.”

To now this praise God !!!

“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:18-20‬


Now the earths dominion belongs to God who became the son of man and inherited the earth …. As Adam once had done to its demise , so Christ has done and it will end in its glory

One of the lines in a teaching I recall and retain had to do with the Dominion Mandate and how it was always meant to be accomplished in our Lord, King, first-born Brother. It was said to make clear and to remind us of who and what we are, that there is a Man on the Throne in Heaven now and we should never forget this.

It's refreshing to read you work through and think from Scripture.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

One of the lines in a teaching I recall and retain had to do with the Dominion Mandate and how it was always meant to be accomplished in our Lord, King, first-born Brother. It was said to make clear and to remind us of who and what we are, that there is a Man on the Throne in Heaven now and we should never forget this.

It's refreshing to read you work through and think from Scripture.

Yes amen I like how you said that this part here

“remind us of who and what we are, that there is a Man on the Throne in Heaven now and we should never forget this.”

i love that …..and such a motivation and heavenly hope ahead

“To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭3:21‬ ‭

 

[Kroogz]

Interesting how Truth does this.

For one thing these folks don't seem to understand the function of conscience in unsaved human beings. Next level of how the human will is intact to deal with this struggle in conscience. Next level of how God has established into all people knowledge about Himself. And more...

The battle rages within because He has not left Himself without witness to a corporate creature who freely chose against Him.

Every calvie here will say, " I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ."

The rest of us say," I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ."

Yet, somehow our belief is a work and theirs is not.

We can't have it both ways, either belief is non-meritorious or it has merit.

 

[HeIsHere]

Indeed, humans are "limited" creatures and their free will does likewise have limits in terms of their capacity to exercise and manifest it.

However we are responsible for what decisions we make nevertheless.

Furthermore, God certainly limits the free will and intent of men to do evil. This is His prerogative as Creator and Judge according to His own free will.

Yes, that's right......free will all the way around. The bad choices get judgement, the good choices praise and glory.

Luk 19:17 - And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.

Can I get an amen?

Amen and Amen!

 

[GWH]

Explain that grace please.

Grace is called leading in the following part of Romans:



3. Romans 2:4 teaches that God’s kindness or patience (grace) with sinners is meant to lead them toward repentance, which implies that sinners are able to repent because of God’s leading.

4. Romans 2:5 warns that those who do not repent but instead stubbornly resist God’s leading are storing up wrath against themselves for the day when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed, which implies that God enables sinners to repent–or not (cf. Deut. 30:19).

7. Romans 2:11 teaches that “God does not show favoritism” (cf. Eph. 6:9, Col. 3:25, 1Pet. 1:17), which is how God judges people justly, so the fact that some sinners ignore God’s Gospel indicates that His will or leading is resistible because of MFW.

8. Romans 2:15 teaches that sinful souls have a conscience or awareness of “the requirements of the law”, which may be combined with Romans 1:20 to teach that God’s power and moral nature or will may be perceived via creation and conscience (called natural revelation), thus those unfamiliar with God’s Word in Scripture have no good reason for resisting divine leading and choosing atheism/evil.

 

[HeIsHere]

You're free to choose to invite all to choose to respond as you desire:

• but we're unable to, so why did you invite us.
• but we're unable to unless you give us a gift first.
• but we're unable to so you'll need to force us - or at least some of us so please let us know who you choose.
• and we're able to and I choose to reject you.
• and we're able to and I choose to accept your invitation, so, Amen!
  • But I may retract it later if I don't want to deal with you anymore.

Have yet to read a post that clearly deals with the dilemma you point out, aside from the "invite" is really only for the elect.

 

[cv5]

Well, instead of an amen I will share this question: Have y'all ever contemplated the truth that you could be a more horrible sinner than Hitler, but for the grace of God prompting you not to choose that route?

Consider that the thief on the cross was likely a career criminal and a notorious crime figure, possibly a murder.

Also consider that Matthew Levi was a low level Jewish mafia member, and Zaccheus was a capo level Jewish mafia made guy.
Both were certainly unsynagogued (aposynagōgous), further, they habitually mingled with the usual cadre of prostitutes, fellow gangsters and leg breakers.

Fortunately we know that the outcome of their lives was not what the pharisees expected.

[Mat 21:31 NKJV]
"Which of the two did the will of [his] father?" They said to Him, "The first." Jesus said to them, "Assuredly, I say to you that tax collectors and harlots enter the kingdom of God before you.

[Mat 21:32 NKJV]
"For John came to you in the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him; but tax collectors and harlots believed him; and when you saw [it], you did not afterward relent and believe him.

 

[Magenta]

Have yet to read a post that clearly deals with the dilemma you point out, aside from the "invite" is really only for the elect.

How can the invite be only for the elect when a wedding invitation respondent was thrown out because they were not clothed properly? I will give you the benefit of the doubt here and assume you have some understanding of what the proper clothes are. Things people present as dilemmas and say they have never seen addressed... meh. I have seen this addressed twice in the last day.

 

[cv5]

You're free to choose to invite all to choose to respond as you desire:

• but we're unable to, so why did you invite us.
• but we're unable to unless you give us a gift first.
• but we're unable to so you'll need to force us - or at least some of us so please let us know who you choose.
• and we're able to and I choose to reject you.
• and we're able to and I choose to accept your invitation, so, Amen!
  • But I may retract it later if I don't want to deal with you anymore.

[Jer 18:11 KJV]
Now therefore go to, speak to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, saying, Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I frame evil against you, and devise a device against you: return ye now every one from his evil way, and make your ways and your doings good.

[Jer 18:12 KJV]
And they said, There is no hope: but we will walk after our own devices, and we will every one do the imagination of his evil heart.

Definitely a wrong response......God was clear that repentance was FREELY available.

 

[cv5]

How can the invite be only for the elect when a wedding invitation respondent was thrown out because they were not clothed properly? I will give you the benefit of the doubt here and assume you have some understanding of what the proper clothes are. Things people present as dilemmas and say they have never seen addressed... meh. I have seen this addressed twice in the last day.

In Matthew 22:14, Jesus concludes the parable of the wedding banquet with the statement, “For many are called, but few are chosen.” To understand who does the calling and choosing in this parable, we need to consider the context, the specific words Jesus uses, and the implications of the original Greek.

1. Who Does the Calling?

The King in the parable clearly represents God, who extends the initial invitation to the wedding banquet. The verb κεκλημένους (perfect passive participle) indicates that the guests were already invited long before the banquet was ready. This implies that God had extended His invitation to His chosen people (the Israelites) throughout history. The perfect tense emphasizes a completed action with ongoing relevance — they were invited in the past, and that invitation still stands.

2. Who Does the Choosing?

The phrase “few are chosen” does not imply that God is selectively choosing a few from among the invited. Instead, it reflects the response of the invitees themselves. The Greek phrase ὀλίγοι ἐκλεκτοί (“few are chosen”) consists of two adjectives functioning as nouns, emphasizing the number of those who actually responded properly to the invitation.

Thus, the “choosing” in this context refers to those who chose to attend the banquet with the proper heart and preparation. The parable emphasizes that being called or invited by God does not automatically grant entrance to the Kingdom; it requires a willing and appropriate response from those invited.

3. Theological Implication: The Book of Life and Human Responsibility

In the context of God’s plan of redemption, the term κεκλημένους can carry a deeper significance, referring to those whose names are already written in the Book of Life—that is, those whom God has foreknown and invited into His Kingdom. Just as a wedding guest list is prepared in advance and invitations go out accordingly, God’s call goes out to those He has already known and invited.

However, having one’s name on the 'guest list' is not enough. The invitation requires a genuine response. The parable illustrates that while all are invited, not all choose to respond appropriately. Those who are ultimately considered “chosen” are those who accept the invitation and come properly prepared, symbolized by wearing the appropriate wedding garment (i.e., repentance and righteousness).

This highlights the role of human responsibility. Jesus emphasizes that, although God’s invitation is extended broadly (“many are called”), only a few accept it as required. The parable shows that many refused to come, while others came improperly dressed, symbolizing a lack of true preparation or genuine repentance.

 

[studier]

Every calvie here will say, " I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ."

The rest of us say," I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ."

Yet, somehow our belief is a work and theirs is not.

We can't have it both ways, either belief is non-meritorious or it has merit.

Yet some of them as on these threads will continually allege that all other than them have a self-meritorious concept of faith.

It's an empty and dumb argument really. Fallacious argumentation.

 

[studier]

Have yet to read a post that clearly deals with the dilemma you point out, aside from the "invite" is really only for the elect.

Good "aside from" comment. I'm sure we could refine these but simplifying what we're all saying is interesting.