Scripture's meaning of God's Elect

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Oct 19, 2024
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#41
I agree but I can also understand the difficulty when it comes to understanding the mind of God, especially since our mind seems to think along totally different lines.
When we are told that God brings blessings to some and not to others, our first thought is “That's not fair”.
However, we must try to understand that when God brings blessings to some, it is not done because He is a respecter of them over others, it is because it is His good pleasure and beyond our understanding.

There is no group of people who are more worthy of His mercy than others. We all fall short!
Fairness is NOT beyond human understanding. It is clearly defined by Paul as not showing favoritism,
but y'all fall short of learning that truth for some reason, which I assume to be brainwashing as a child,
because I was taught OSAS, although not dogmatically, which may be why I was able to escape
when I read the entire Bible through several times with an open mind seeking answers.
 

BillyBob

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Dec 20, 2023
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#42
Would God have foreknew Moses when Paul wrote Romans?

Would God sanctify Moses and save Him through Jesus?

Everything mentioned in verse 29-30 can relate directly to the Hebrew and Jewish people.
Not sure why Moses is being mentioned. He was a very great man, but he was not sinless. Since he is a sinner, then he needs Christ just as we all do. Christ has paid the debt that sin caused.
 

lrs68

Well-known member
Dec 30, 2024
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#43
Not sure why Moses is being mentioned. He was a very great man, but he was not sinless. Since he is a sinner, then he needs Christ just as we all do. Christ has paid the debt that sin caused.
The point is that Moses was foreknown by God and still needed to be sanctified by Jesus like those verses explain.
 

BillyBob

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Dec 20, 2023
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#44
Fairness is NOT beyond human understanding. It is clearly defined by Paul as not showing favoritism,
but y'all fall short of learning that truth for some reason, which I assume to be brainwashing as a child,
because I was taught OSAS, although not dogmatically, which may be why I was able to escape
when I read the entire Bible through several times with an open mind seeking answers.
1 Corinthians 13:12
 
Oct 19, 2024
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#45
1 Corinthians 13:12
Yes, but Paul did not write 1Cor. 13:12 and then retire!
Instead, he used a lot of ink writing most of the NT trying to explain things
so we who are truthseekers could understand more clearly/fully, although not perfectly,
including that God is loving toward all and just, not showing favoritism.
 

BillyBob

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Dec 20, 2023
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#46
Yes, but Paul did not write 1Cor. 13:12 and then retire!
Instead, he used a lot of ink writing most of the NT trying to explain things
so we who are truthseekers could understand more clearly/fully, although not perfectly,
including that God is loving toward all and just, not showing favoritism.
I believe that there are many things which will be explained fully once we are with God. 1Cor 13:12 still applies today. We do not have every answer.
And you are correct, God does not show favoritism. However, that does not mean that He treats everyone the same.
 
Sep 2, 2020
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#47
Everything in the Bible is true. Everyone will be rendered according to their deeds. But do you notice that when Paul speaks of God not being a respecter of persons that this phrase comes directly after a reference to Jews and Gentiles. And do you understand the Jewish mindset that the Jews believed that because of their race, they had a special place with God and looked upon every other race with disdain? And that they believed they were better than every other race and that God favored them because of what was true of them? That's why I went to Deuteronomy 7. God didn't choose Israel because they were special in any way. They were actually the smallest and weakest of people, trapped in slavery, and without hope. And God is clear why He chose them: simply because He decided to love them. God's choosing was done without respect to them. And this is what it means that God is no respecter of persons. He acts sovereignly. And this is what Paul is teaching in Romans 2 and what Peter discovers is true concerning the Gentiles in Acts 10. That God renders to every man according to his deeds is absolutely true. That God moves sovereignly without respect to what is true of people is equally true.
If god is soveriegn how come you guys won’t accept how he says he’s going to judge you ? His words don’t matter because he’s soveriegn ?

Is Paul wrong or what’s the deal ?

God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:6-11‬ ‭NIV‬‬

doesn’t a soveriegn God have the right to announce to man how they will be judged ? I mean he hasn’t been mysterious about it

“For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭16:27‬ ‭NIV‬‬

““Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live,

and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:28-29‬ ‭NIV‬‬

Do you know what soveriegn means brother ? Doesn’t he have the right to judge his creation exactly how he’s always said ? And reward then exactly how he’s said ?

“Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.

Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction;

whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭6:7-8‬ ‭

seems he has the right being soveriegn to say what he’s saying and o it as he promised to do . Seems like god has always been pretty big on man accepting his words and judgements maybe that’s because he’s soveriegn and will always keep his word ?

““Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22:12‬ ‭NIV‬

God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”

To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: “


Your sauong this is all true because it’s in the Bible but it doesn’t apply and isn’t how he’s going to judge us lol I don’t really get your reasoning “it’s true but ….”

Its either how God is going to judge everyone and reward them …..or it isn’t

“But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Notice how it isn’t “ without faith its impossible to please him . For whoever comes to him must be pre selected and dragged there against thier own evil Will and that he will never judge you by your deeds like his word repeatedly and consistently proclaims from beginning to end “

He’s impartial but not to you “ chosen ones “

“Since you call on a Father who judges each person’s work impartially, live out your time as foreigners here in reverent fear.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭1:17‬ ‭NIV‬‬

But I’ll lay off brother your never going to actually talk about what it says u less it’s a grace verse that doesn’t explain anything
 
Sep 2, 2020
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#48
Also, the Disciples before Jesus arrived were the chosen Jews already and would have been saved either way.

But when Jesus showed up He chose them to continue His work.

The Disciples were chosen no matter what by being Jews and to continue the work of Jesus.
Yeah they are part of the remnant of Israel he promised to spare and choose to witness the gospel to the world

He would send his word out from Jerusalem to all nations but he needed wotnesses of the gospel who walked with him and saw what he had done followed his word and received his spirit

Gods Will for the earth is worked through Israel’s faithful remnant the generation of Jesus Christ who witnessed the new testament to us who now believe through thier witness of the gospel

The gospel would first be preached only to israel and then the remnant who believed would be sent out to the nations witnessing salvation. It’s all really well laid out in the ot Paul also speaks of he and Silas I believe it was being part of fulfilling those prophecies of being the chosen witnesses to the world



those things he pre determined are witnessed in the prophets like this this is a pre determination of God

“Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭7:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Or this

Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, And the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; Thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel. Serve the LORD with fear, And rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, When his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭2:6-9, 11-12‬ ‭

That was pre determined the thing s about Christ Jesus like this

“But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭53:5-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

What god pre determined is the times and places we would exist he did that so that we would reach out and find him he’s near but we need to reach out and find him there

God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; and hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

that they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭17:24, 26-27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

God created all mankind and he’s willing to save them if they will turn to him he predetermined things to accomplish his Will his Will is in the gospel tbat we would repent and believe and be saved
 
Sep 2, 2020
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#49
I believe that there are many things which will be explained fully once we are with God. 1Cor 13:12 still applies today. We do not have every answer.
And you are correct, God does not show favoritism. However, that does not mean that He treats everyone the same.
Didn’t he make the same offer to everyone though ?

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

seems like everyone’s in the same boat now and in the same situation I believe anyone who believes will be treated the same way and anyone who doesn’t believe will be treated the same way without regard to who they are or what bloodline the came from .

The ot was different israel was tweeted very differently from everyone else on earth but that’s over now now there’s no difference in peoples to God Jew gentile young old male female each individual now has access to the God of Israel the creator of all things

bow we act towards God is going to be how he treats us in the end that’s the same for everyone the same standards apply
 
Oct 19, 2024
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#50
I believe that there are many things which will be explained fully once we are with God. 1Cor 13:12 still applies today. We do not have every answer.
And you are correct, God does not show favoritism. However, that does not mean that He treats everyone the same.
I have learned from experience that the reason I was so ignorant at the age of 20 was because I had not studied GW.
Some questions remain unanswered, some are not clearly answered, and some are sufficiently answered.

Not showing favoritism means that God gives all sinners the opportunity to be saved,
and those who squander that day of salvation condemn themselves to a just hell (Heb. 3:7-13).
 
Oct 29, 2023
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#51
When scripture speaks of election, or “God's Elect”, what does this mean?
I have seen posts which indicate that “God loves all and does not show favoritism”.
  • So, does this indicated that the entire world is included in the “Elect of God” or does it speak of only God's chosen people?
  • If it refers to God's chosen people, can a non-elect person become saved, or can an elect person become lost?
  • If it refers to all men, then why is it even mentioned?
Your thoughts!
Choices are made either randomly, like picking raffle numbers from a bag, unable to distinguish between the options; or choices are deliberate, that is, made after deliberation, for reasons and with criteria.
BillyBob, does scripture describe God as choosing His children randomly without criteria, or according to criteria?

One way to choose without prejudice a select group of people would be to set as the requirements for selection some qualifying behaviour so easy that absolutely all people are capable of both performing and refusing to perform them , giving everybody the opportunity to willingly behave either way, and selecting those who willingly meet the criteria.
BillyBob, does scripture describe God setting criteria for election that even a child can meet?

The whole world is able to meet the criteria for election, but not all choose to fulfil the criteria.

It seems reasonable that a person is not-elect before they are meeting the criteria required to become elect. And if there happen to be ongoing criteria for remaining elect. a person who is meeting the criteria for election at one time may stop being elect if they stop meeting those ongoing criteria at a later time; but may resume meeting the criteria at an even later time and again become elect.

Elect does not refer to all persons. The invitation to become elect is to all all persons. Election is mentioned because it is possible to move from being non-elect strangers to being elect children, and being elect comes with benefits.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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#52
Choices are made either randomly, like picking raffle numbers from a bag, unable to distinguish between the options; or choices are deliberate, that is, made after deliberation, for reasons and with criteria.
BillyBob, does scripture describe God as choosing His children randomly without criteria, or according to criteria?
Scripture says according to foreknowledge, as well as His everlasting love, mercy, and loving kindness etc.
And also according to the good pleasure of His will. Some don't like that. They want it to be about their will.
And when God's sovereignty is introduced into the convo, it is like bombs going off with the things some say.
Things like God acting unilaterally makes Him an unjust tyrannical monster kidnapping people against their will.
Which really just sounds like blasphemy to me.
 

John146

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Jan 13, 2016
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#53
Ive heard it said that the coming of Jesus Christ was what was predestined.
You heard wrong my friend. Predestination is concerning those who are already in Christ. Those in Christ are predestinated to receive the future adoption, which is the redemption of the body.
 
Oct 19, 2024
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#54
You heard wrong my friend. Predestination is concerning those who are already in Christ. Those in Christ are predestinated to receive the future adoption, which is the redemption of the body.
Some both-and logic would be helpful here.
Both Christ and redemption/salvation/being adopted in Christ were predestined.
 

BillyBob

Well-known member
Dec 20, 2023
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#55
Choices are made either randomly, like picking raffle numbers from a bag, unable to distinguish between the options; or choices are deliberate, that is, made after deliberation, for reasons and with criteria.
BillyBob, does scripture describe God as choosing His children randomly without criteria, or according to criteria?

One way to choose without prejudice a select group of people would be to set as the requirements for selection some qualifying behaviour so easy that absolutely all people are capable of both performing and refusing to perform them , giving everybody the opportunity to willingly behave either way, and selecting those who willingly meet the criteria.
BillyBob, does scripture describe God setting criteria for election that even a child can meet?

The whole world is able to meet the criteria for election, but not all choose to fulfil the criteria.

It seems reasonable that a person is not-elect before they are meeting the criteria required to become elect. And if there happen to be ongoing criteria for remaining elect. a person who is meeting the criteria for election at one time may stop being elect if they stop meeting those ongoing criteria at a later time; but may resume meeting the criteria at an even later time and again become elect.

Elect does not refer to all persons. The invitation to become elect is to all all persons. Election is mentioned because it is possible to move from being non-elect strangers to being elect children, and being elect comes with benefits.
I think you have it wrong. Man's inability to please God is proclaimed throughout scripture. It also proclaims God's power to save us in spite of our inability. The fact that God does in fact save any should be viewed as an undeserved blessing, not favoritism. God chose some, and by doing so, glorifies himself by raising a poor helpless sinner to newness of life.

The one thing which was not lost in the fall – is man's ability to boast!