A call for unity and love

[Blain]

The point I tried to make unsuccessfully was this wasn't the place for it. There are more than enough active discussions on this topic already. Oh well, lesson learned.

Yeah I hear you this isn't the place for it but even so even if the topic was discussed elsewhere the point of the thread was to have everyone try to bring unity and love to the forum even if it is outside this thread.

So if it cannot even be done here how is it to be done elsewhere? maybe it was a futile effort

 

[NightTwister]

Yeah I hear you this isn't the place for it but even so even if the topic was discussed elsewhere the point of the thread was to have everyone try to bring unity and love to the forum even if it is outside this thread.

So if it cannot even be done here how is it to be done elsewhere? maybe it was a futile effort

I prefer the maxim "In Essentials Unity, in Non-Essentials Liberty, in all things Charity." It's that last one that is lacking all too often.

 

[GWH]

Yeah I hear you this isn't the place for it but even so even if the topic was discussed elsewhere the point of the thread was to have everyone try to bring unity and love to the forum even if it is outside this thread.

So if it cannot even be done here how is it to be done elsewhere? maybe it was a futile effort

So, Blain, since

Yeah I hear you this isn't the place for it but even so even if the topic was discussed elsewhere the point of the thread was to have everyone try to bring unity and love to the forum even if it is outside this thread.

So if it cannot even be done here how is it to be done elsewhere? maybe it was a futile effort

So, Blain, I am sorry things got derailed on this thread, but because I respect your objective opinion,
any feedback you could provide regarding resolving the spat with Mag on post #96 would be appreciated.
Otherwise, what would you like for us to discuss in unity and love? What about my suggestion for our creed?

 

[Blain]

So, Blain, since


So, Blain, I am sorry things got derailed on this thread, but because I respect your objective opinion,
any feedback you could provide regarding resolving the spat with Mag on post #96 would be appreciated.
Otherwise, what would you like for us to discuss in unity and love? What about my suggestion for our creed?

To be honest as far as your post on it goes I can see you are trying to clear things up with magenta and I respect your desire to have unity and love with her you even apologized several times so really I think what is done is done and that is all that is needed. I will have to go back and re read your post again to give you a decent opinion but I just want you to know I can see you are trying.

As for the creed yes I think that would be topic to discuss

 

[Blain]

Aah, thanks for posting a quote of my offense, Mag. Maybe now we can clear this matter up. I said:

I find it incongruous that you claim to love Paul while ignoring his teaching, at least in this regard, apparently because of the reasons I cited:

1. ignoring Paul's teaching that faith is a non-meritorious acceptance of Christ's work.

2. ignoring and disputing Paul's teaching that A&E and Abraham are examples of sin and faith, respectively.

3. ignoring Paul's teaching that Abraham was saved by faith first and THEN God deemed him to be righteous or spiritually circumcised,

4. ignoring Paul's teaching that the proto-gospel message was NOT foolishness to Abrahan, which is why he chose to believe it,

5. ignoring Paul's teaching that God loves and wants to save all people, which means that He gives every sinner volition, thereby enabling him to seek salvation--or not,

6. ignoring the obvious fact that by denying the last teaching you implicitly blaspheme God, ascribing to Him hatred of humanity, or at least most of it, depending on how many you think He elects.

To my post you replied:

A. I have never claimed that faith is meritorious. I'm not sure where you got that idea. It is the opposite of my belief.

B. I do not ignore that A&E are examples of sin and Abe an example of faith. It is quite shocking how easily you lie.

C. I never said the gospel message was foolishness to Abe. I don't know why you feel you have to make up so much crap.

D. Blaspheming God. I never said He hated humanity. My God, what a liar you are to be so dishonest about what I believe.

And I replied thusly:

Re "I have never claimed that faith is meritorious. I'm not sure where you got that idea. It is the opposite of my belief."

Why else would you refuse to ascribe the ability to seek and have faith in God to sinners? If it is non-meritorious, what's the problem?

Re "I do not ignore that A&E are examples of sin and Abe an example of faith. It is quite shocking how easily you lie."

Sorry, I thought that if you viewed Abraham as an example of saving faith for all to be erroneous that you would probably think the same about A&E being an example of sin.

Re "I never said the gospel message was foolishness to Abe. I don't know why you feel you have to make up so much crap.":

I inferred it from you saying that the natural/uncircumcised man--which Abraham was--could not believe the Gospel unless God circumcised his heart first, but Paul says Abraham had faith first before circumcision, so how do you avoid implying that crap?

Re "Blaspheming God. I never said He hated humanity. My God, what a liar you are to be so dishonest about what I believe."

What I said was that by denying the teaching that God loves and wants to save all people you implicitly ascribe to Him hatred of however many humans you think He does not elect to circumcise--and you did not say that you believe God circumcises everyone's heart just now, so how do you avoid this implication?

My amended understanding is this:

1. You agree with Paul's teaching that faith is a non-meritorious acceptance of Christ's work. It is the way God enables people to be saved.

2. You agree with Paul's teaching that A&E exemplify sin but disagree that Abraham exemplifies faith

3. You disagree with Paul's teaching that Abraham was saved by faith first and THEN God deemed him to be righteous or spiritually circumcised,

4. You agree with Paul's teaching that the proto-gospel message was NOT foolishness to Abrahan, which is why he chose to believe it,

5. You seem oblivious to the implication that by ignoring Paul's teaching that God loves and wants to save all people, which means that He gives every sinner volition, thereby enabling him to seek salvation--or not, you ascribe hatred for the part of humanity whose hearts God does not circumcise so they may believe and be saved and effectually force them to go to hell.

BTW, it is wrong to say someone lies when they merely misunderstand you.

So, everyone on this thread, please opine.

After reading this conversation it appears that there is a clear misunderstanding between you two and it kind of became a mountain out of a molehill @GWH I can see that you were not trying to have any kind of malice and that it really boils down to a misunderstanding. You even tried to resolve it and that is something I can respect. Magenta and I have even disagreed on certain topics but we remain very good friends so I hope you can resolve it with her as I consider you my friend as well

 

[GWH]

After reading this conversation it appears that there is a clear misunderstanding between you two and it kind of became a mountain out of a molehill @GWH I can see that you were not trying to have any kind of malice and that it really boils down to a misunderstanding. You even tried to resolve it and that is something I can respect. Magenta and I have even disagreed on certain topics but we remain very good friends so I hope you can resolve it with her as I consider you my friend as well

Well, I will keep trying, but you know I agree with 2ndTime's post #110.
Regarding the kerygma that I posted to NT in #114 but he shied away from discussing like it was an asp,
here it is for us to chew on (I enlarged the font if that is helpful):

The normative way of stating the kerygma/GRFS in the NT is “Accept Christ Jesus as Lord” (as in 2Cor. 4:5 & Col. 2:6).
The main points of Christian orthodoxy implicit in this statement can be explained or elaborated as follows:

1. There is a/one all-loving and just Lord or God (DT 6:4, JN 3:16, 2THS 1:6), who is both able (2TM 1:12) and willing (1TM 2:3-4, EZK 33:11) to provide all morally accountable human beings salvation or heaven—a wonderful life full of love, joy and peace forever.
2. Human beings are selfish or sinful (RM 3:23, 2TM 3:2-4, CL 3:5), miserable (GL 5:19-21), and hopeless (EPH 2:12) or hell-bound at the judgment (MT 23:33 & 25:46) when they reject God’s salvation (JN 3:18, RM 2:5-11).
3. Jesus is God’s Messiah/Christ and incarnate Son, the way that God has chosen (JN 3:16, ACTS 16:30-31, PHP 2:9-11) of providing salvation by means of his atoning death on the cross for the payment of the penalty for the sins of humanity (RM 3:22-25 & 5:9-11), followed by his resurrection to reign in heaven (1CR 15:14-28).
4. Thus, every person who hears the NT Gospel needs to repent and accept God’s justification in Jesus as Christ/Messiah the Lord or Supreme Commander (LK 2:11, JN 14:6, ACTS 16:31), which means trying to obey His commandment to love one another (MT 22:37-40, JN 13:35, RM 13:9)—forever (MT 10:22, PS 113:2).
5. Then God’s Holy Spirit will establish a saving relationship with those who freely accept/love Him (RV 3:20) that will eventually achieve heaven when by means of persevering in learning Truth/God’s Word/sanctification everyone cooperates fully with His will (JN 14:6, 17&26, RM 8:6-17, GL 6:7-9, EPH 1:13-14, HB 10:36, 12:1, JM 1:2-4).

May I suggest that we (and any other reader who wants to join us) discuss one point at a time?
Perhaps tonight I can work on revamping the citations so they turn blue on CC.

 

[Blain]

Well, I will keep trying, but you know I agree with 2ndTime's post #110.
Regarding the kerygma that I posted to NT in #114 but he shied away from discussing like it was an asp,
here it is for us to chew on (I enlarged the font if that is helpful):

The normative way of stating the kerygma/GRFS in the NT is “Accept Christ Jesus as Lord” (as in 2Cor. 4:5 & Col. 2:6).
The main points of Christian orthodoxy implicit in this statement can be explained or elaborated as follows:

1. There is a/one all-loving and just Lord or God (DT 6:4, JN 3:16, 2THS 1:6), who is both able (2TM 1:12) and willing (1TM 2:3-4, EZK 33:11) to provide all morally accountable human beings salvation or heaven—a wonderful life full of love, joy and peace forever.
2. Human beings are selfish or sinful (RM 3:23, 2TM 3:2-4, CL 3:5), miserable (GL 5:19-21), and hopeless (EPH 2:12) or hell-bound at the judgment (MT 23:33 & 25:46) when they reject God’s salvation (JN 3:18, RM 2:5-11).
3. Jesus is God’s Messiah/Christ and incarnate Son, the way that God has chosen (JN 3:16, ACTS 16:30-31, PHP 2:9-11) of providing salvation by means of his atoning death on the cross for the payment of the penalty for the sins of humanity (RM 3:22-25 & 5:9-11), followed by his resurrection to reign in heaven (1CR 15:14-28).
4. Thus, every person who hears the NT Gospel needs to repent and accept God’s justification in Jesus as Christ/Messiah the Lord or Supreme Commander (LK 2:11, JN 14:6, ACTS 16:31), which means trying to obey His commandment to love one another (MT 22:37-40, JN 13:35, RM 13:9)—forever (MT 10:22, PS 113:2).
5. Then God’s Holy Spirit will establish a saving relationship with those who freely accept/love Him (RV 3:20) that will eventually achieve heaven when by means of persevering in learning Truth/God’s Word/sanctification everyone cooperates fully with His will (JN 14:6, 17&26, RM 8:6-17, GL 6:7-9, EPH 1:13-14, HB 10:36, 12:1, JM 1:2-4).

May I suggest that we (and any other reader who wants to join us) discuss one point at a time?
Perhaps tonight I can work on revamping the citations so they turn blue on CC.

Which point do you want to discuss?

 

[GWH]

Which point do you want to discuss?

Okay, I just redid the citations, so here is point #1:

1. There is a/one all-loving and just Lord or God (Deut. 6:4, John 3:16, 2Thes. 1:6), who is both able (2Tim. 1:12) and willing (1Tim. 2:3-4, Ezek. 33:11) to provide all morally accountable human beings salvation or heaven—a wonderful life full of love, joy and peace forever.

How is it so far?

(Going to bed soon; talk to you tomorrow.)

 

[Blain]

Okay, I just redid the citations, so here is point #1:

1. There is a/one all-loving and just Lord or God (Deut. 6:4, John 3:16, 2Thes. 1:6), who is both able (2Tim. 1:12) and willing (1Tim. 2:3-4, Ezek. 33:11) to provide all morally accountable human beings salvation or heaven—a wonderful life full of love, joy and peace forever.

How is it so far?

(Going to bed soon; talk to you tomorrow.)

It looks good so far and good night

 

[kqr_anointed]

It looks good so far and good night

goodnight blain

 

[Blain]

goodnight blain

I was saying good night to @GWH because he is going to bed I am going to be up for a good while as I have actually slept a good part of the day but thank you for the good night anyways

 

[Ceph]

There's no point in arguing over the scriptures. It's a complete vanity and waste of time.
It's like arguing over how wet water is, or how green the grass is.
They just are what they are, and are the truth.
It is written that whoever beleives in the name of Jesus is saved.
The commandments apply to everyone impartially. God respects nobody.
We are to love God with all our heart, soul, and mind. We are to love each other as we love ourselves. We are to humble ourselves as little children, to turn the other cheek, to love our enemies, and pray for our haters and persecutors.
It is just and fitting to raise our hands for the salvation of every man, no matter how fallen or what their position and offences are;
Because Jesus has saved everyone who beleives in him.

Whoever will cause one of these little ones to stumble, it would be better if a huge milstone were hung around his neck, and he was cast into the sea.
Be careful the you don't despise the least of these little ones, for their angels see the face of God every day in heaven.

So please, let's rejoice in our sure salvation, and be thankful that each and every one of us has it;
and extend our hope to those who don't yet have it, for we all know that there was a point in each and every one of our lives where we didn't.
Stop laying sumbling blocks and occasions of falling, for God will judge everyone who judges, and condemn everyone who condemns, as doing this is completely contrary to the promise we are made to inherit.

Plus it's quite unthankful to not realise that the very reason we are saved today, is due to the continual saints from generation to generation copying and reporducing the gospel with the very hopes that the unbeleiving should beleive.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

There's no point in arguing over the scriptures. It's a complete vanity and waste of time.
It's like arguing over how wet water is, or how green the grass is.
They just are what they are, and are the truth.
It is written that whoever beleives in the name of Jesus is saved.
The commandments apply to everyone impartially. God respects nobody.
We are to love God with all our heart, soul, and mind. We are to love each other as we love ourselves. We are to humble ourselves as little children, to turn the other cheek, to love our enemies, and pray for our haters and persecutors.
It is just and fitting to raise our hands for the salvation of every man, no matter how fallen or what their position and offences are;
Because Jesus has saved everyone who beleives in him.

Whoever will cause one of these little ones to stumble, it would be better if a huge milstone were hung around his neck, and he was cast into the sea.
Be careful the you don't despise the least of these little ones, for their angels see the face of God every day in heaven.

So please, let's rejoice in our sure salvation, and be thankful that each and every one of us has it;
and extend our hope to those who don't yet have it, for we all know that there was a point in each and every one of our lives where we didn't.
Stop laying sumbling blocks and occasions of falling, for God will judge everyone who judges, and condemn everyone who condemns, as doing this is completely contrary to the promise we are made to inherit.

Plus it's quite unthankful to not realise that the very reason we are saved today, is due to the continual saints from generation to generation copying and reporducing the gospel with the very hopes that the unbeleiving should beleive.

You don't understand - GWH actually ENJOYS this type of discussion. Let him have his fun....

 

[Blain]

You don't understand - GWH actually ENJOYS this type of discussion. Let him have his fun....

I just thought he wanted to ddiscuss thing and and wanted to bring unity but did I misunderstand him?

 

[GWH]

It looks good so far and good night

Thanks. I wonder why NightT and the tulipists find that so threatening?

Here is the second point for y'all's agreement and/or comment:

1. Human beings are selfish or sinful (Rom. 3:23, 2Tim. 3:2-4, Col. 3:5), miserable (Gal. 5:19-21), and hopeless (Eph. 2:12) or hell-bound at the judgment (Matt. 23:33 & 25:46) when they reject God’s salvation (John 3:18, Rom. 2:5-11).

And yes, I love GW and enjoy discussing it with friendly folks like Blain and 2ndT,
but I share the sorrow of Jesus because of apathy about unity (John 17:20-23, Matt. 23:37)
and the concern of Paul about those who pervert the Gospel (Gal. 1:6-7, 3:22-24, 5:6 & 14-26).

 

[kqr_anointed]

." Here is comfort for the tried and afflicted soul; vexed with the tempest within-look at the calm without. "Nevertheless"-O say it in thy heart, and take the peace it gives.

 

[Eli1]

I'm done. There's no point to continuing. Actually if I'd known how this was going to go I would never have started.

That's why i said 'his lack of self-awareness' is what makes him adorable.
I knew this a few months ago when he couldn't answer some basic questions about Salvation. He just can't process stuff which makes him adorable.

 

[Eli1]

I just thought he wanted to ddiscuss thing and and wanted to bring unity but did I misunderstand him?

Nah, he's your classic boomer bro.
Enjoy him.

 

[NightTwister]

Thanks. I wonder why NightT and the tulipists find that so threatening?

Here is the second point for y'all's agreement and/or comment:

1. Human beings are selfish or sinful (Rom. 3:23, 2Tim. 3:2-4, Col. 3:5), miserable (Gal. 5:19-21), and hopeless (Eph. 2:12) or hell-bound at the judgment (Matt. 23:33 & 25:46) when they reject God’s salvation (John 3:18, Rom. 2:5-11).

And yes, I love GW and enjoy discussing it with friendly folks like Blain and 2ndT,
but I share the sorrow of Jesus because of apathy about unity (John 17:20-23, Matt. 23:37)
and the concern of Paul about those who pervert the Gospel (Gal. 1:6-7, 3:22-24, 5:6 & 14-26).

Stop using my name on your comments. I stopped this discussion as requested. You said you did too, but apparently you haven't.

 

[Blain]

Stop using my name on your comments. I stopped this discussion as requested. You said you did too, but apparently you haven't.

I Ap;o;ogize on his behalf I will try to steer the conversation away from talking about other people