A call for unity and love

[Blain]

Thanks. I wonder why NightT and the tulipists find that so threatening?

Here is the second point for y'all's agreement and/or comment:

1. Human beings are selfish or sinful (Rom. 3:23, 2Tim. 3:2-4, Col. 3:5), miserable (Gal. 5:19-21), and hopeless (Eph. 2:12) or hell-bound at the judgment (Matt. 23:33 & 25:46) when they reject God’s salvation (John 3:18, Rom. 2:5-11).

And yes, I love GW and enjoy discussing it with friendly folks like Blain and 2ndT,
but I share the sorrow of Jesus because of apathy about unity (John 17:20-23, Matt. 23:37)
and the concern of Paul about those who pervert the Gospel (Gal. 1:6-7, 3:22-24, 5:6 & 14-26).

We should not talk about them and just focus on the discussion they don't like it when we do that but as for the verses here II would agree with them and I cannot see anything to disagree with it

Are you talking about salvation in general or is there a certain point your wanting to make here?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I wanted to sort of make a reminder that we as brothers and sisters in Christ are called for unity and love for one another. I am aware there are differences in opinions and doctrinal understanding but we can disagree with love

Certain topics such as free will and predestination and the likes tend to bring out strife among us

1 Thessalonians 5:11 emphasizes mutual encouragement and building up, saying, "Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing". Romans 14:19 highlights the pursuit of peace and building up, stating, "Let us pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding". Hebrews 3:13 encourages daily encouragement to prevent hardening of hearts, urging, "But encourage one another daily

I would love nothing more than to see this with each other and to see this site become one of love and light a reminder of what Christs love does in the hearts of those who carry his name

different doctrines and judgements are never going to coincide brother to have peace Christian’s need to acknowledge Jesus doctrine

“Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭1:10‬ ‭

everyone that hears and believes the gospel will accept the same exact judgements and they will have peace in Christ. But when you have other doctrines rejecting Jesus doctrine there’s always going to be conflict.

what I’m saying is different doctrines don’t fit together. There’s peace found in accepting the gospel Jesus preached for the people that do that.

“Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:”
‭‭2 John‬ ‭1:9-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

they’ll have a fellowship knowing the same truth

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s hard to have fellowship when people are spreading many different doctrines the result of that is always going to be small groups together opposing other small groups because there’s so many various ideas about everything Jesus clearly explained in the gospel.

Christian’s should all hear and believe the gospel our lord spoke forth . when that happens they’ll all get along perfectly. Simply based on what it was he taught which is for his disciples to treat me another with love

Everyone isn’t a disciple of the same gospel




“Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: for which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:

in the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.

But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; and have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.

And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.

And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.

Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭3:5-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[GWH]

We should not talk about them and just focus on the discussion they don't like it when we do that but as for the verses here II would agree with them and I cannot see anything to disagree with it

Are you talking about salvation in general or is there a certain point your wanting to make here?

Okay, good. Here is point #3:

Jesus is God’s Messiah/Christ and incarnate Son, the way that God has chosen (John 3:16, Acts 16:30-31, Phil. 2:9-11)
to provide salvation by means of his atoning death on the cross for the payment of the penalty for the sins of humanity
(Rom. 3:22-25 & 5:9-11), followed by his resurrection to reign in heaven (1Cor. 15:14-28).

 

[Blain]

different doctrines and judgements are never going to coincide brother to have peace Christian’s need to acknowledge Jesus doctrine

“Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭1:10‬ ‭

everyone that hears and believes the gospel will accept the same exact judgements and they will have peace in Christ. But when you have other doctrines rejecting Jesus doctrine there’s always going to be conflict.

what I’m saying is different doctrines don’t fit together. There’s peace found in accepting the gospel Jesus preached for the people that do that.

“Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:”
‭‭2 John‬ ‭1:9-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

they’ll have a fellowship knowing the same truth

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s hard to have fellowship when people are spreading many different doctrines the result of that is always going to be small groups together opposing other small groups because there’s so many various ideas about everything Jesus clearly explained in the gospel.

Christian’s should all hear and believe the gospel our lord spoke forth . when that happens they’ll all get along perfectly. Simply based on what it was he taught which is for his disciples to treat me another with love

Everyone isn’t a disciple of the same gospel




“Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: for which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:

in the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.

But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; and have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.

And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.

And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.

Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭3:5-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Yes it is true that with all the different doctrines it can be difficult to have peace amongst each other but even with that we can still show respect and love for one another. a body is made of different parts each part is different but part of the same body but if one part says to this part I am the true body and the other says to this part I am the true body it cannot function correctly.

A kingdom divided cannot stand after all and we cannot have a functioniing kingdom if we are divided so if all it takes is a difference of doctrine to make the kingdom stumble and fall the enemy has already won

 

[Blain]

Okay, good. Here is point #3:

Jesus is God’s Messiah/Christ and incarnate Son, the way that God has chosen (John 3:16, Acts 16:30-31, Phil. 2:9-11)
to provide salvation by means of his atoning death on the cross for the payment of the penalty for the sins of humanity
(Rom. 3:22-25 & 5:9-11), followed by his resurrection to reign in heaven (1Cor. 15:14-28).

Yes these verses are also true it is clear and simple

 

[GWH]

Yes these verses are also true it is clear and simple

Good, and #4:

Thus, every person who hears the NT Gospel needs to repent and accept God’s justification in Jesus as Christ/Messiah the Lord or Supreme Commander (Luke 2:11, John 14:6, Acts 16:31), which means trying to obey His commandment to love one another (Matt. 22:37-40, John 13:35, Rom. 13:9)—forever (Matt. 10:22, Psa. 113:2).

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Yes it is true that with all the different doctrines it can be difficult to have peace amongst each other but even with that we can still show respect and love for one another. a body is made of different parts each part is different but part of the same body but if one part says to this part I am the true body and the other says to this part I am the true body it cannot function correctly.

A kingdom divided cannot stand after all and we cannot have a functioniing kingdom if we are divided so if all it takes is a difference of doctrine to make the kingdom stumble and fall the enemy has already won

“Yes it is true that with all the different doctrines it can be difficult to have peace amongst each other but even with that we can still show respect and love for one another.”

agree completely.

what I was getting at is when we all meet here and agree in these types of things that Jesus taught believers in the gospel

“Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall be given into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:36-38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

see if we all agreed with Jesus doctrine for Gods children “Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.”

we would all learn to be merciful and to forgive and not to judge each other nor condemn others.

another example Would be “ turn the other cheek don’t retaliate evil for evil “ if we all agreed with that teaching it would solve a lot of problems between believers. He teaches us not to gossip and brag and lie and cheat and steal ect if we all agreed and bekieved those were the things God said to believers there would just be unity we could learn from each other then one man could talk about this teaching or that parable another could discuss this sayong or that teaching ect to learn from Jesus rather than removing his word which is where faith exists for all

my point was when other doctrines come and explain “ that’s not correct we don’t have to do that thing Jesus is teaching that’s not for us ect it’s going to cause a situation where there’s non unity or co for mitt of thought to what Jesus taught which is the goal for us to let out thinking conform to his believing his word

“And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, ( this happens listening to Jesus word believing ) that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭12:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“and be renewed in the spirit of your mind;”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That happens listening to Jesus word his teachings and lessons in the gospel about God about our selves and the world now and the one to come for believers ect

It begins to change our understanding of God even that he is our father is doctrine of Jesus

“And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭23:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

No one was teaching this until Jesus the only son came telling those who believed in him.

afterwards it was Christian doctrine

“But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He taught them that they were Gods chhildren when they came to him otherwise no one could believe that doctrine. But afterwards

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus words in the gospel bear witness tbat believers are gods children that’s what I’m saying all the things we should agree with are in the gospel and that’s where there is unity in the body of Christ when Jesus gives us our answers in the gospel

 

[Jordon]

I wanted to sort of make a reminder that we as brothers and sisters in Christ are called for unity and love for one another. I am aware there are differences in opinions and doctrinal understanding but we can disagree with love

Certain topics such as free will and predestination and the likes tend to bring out strife among us

1 Thessalonians 5:11 emphasizes mutual encouragement and building up, saying, "Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing". Romans 14:19 highlights the pursuit of peace and building up, stating, "Let us pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding". Hebrews 3:13 encourages daily encouragement to prevent hardening of hearts, urging, "But encourage one another daily

I would love nothing more than to see this with each other and to see this site become one of love and light a reminder of what Christs love does in the hearts of those who carry his name

Free will is pretty much taken for granted and very much a bad influence for making decisions.

It's also very much miss represented and very wrongly used to represent meanings of scripture by a wide range of people I feal, it's no wonder people disagree over free will.

I feal that any person appealing to free will and in particular appealing to what they feal to be there own free will is more than likely them not fully understanding or knowing completely what there talking about, it's a bit of rabbit trail in my opinion.

I don't believe freedom of choice should for one minute be associated to what a person believes to be there free will, and I don't believe for one minute that any person believing that because they have been born with freedom of choice that somehow they are equal to anyone else, and then to go on to say predestination is all wrong because of they feal about there own freedom of choice

Well God knows our.past present and future

Nope sorry free will is just a mental block in the hands of many.

Simply put if your not predestined your not saved and can't be.

Peace and grace to you

 

[Blain]

Free will is pretty much taken for granted and very much a bad influence for making decisions.

It's also very much miss represented and very wrongly used to represent meanings of scripture by a wide range of people I feal, it's no wonder people disagree over free will.

I feal that any person appealing to free will and in particular appealing to what they feal to be there own free will is more than likely them not fully understanding or knowing completely what there talking about, it's a bit of rabbit trail in my opinion.

I don't believe freedom of choice should for one minute be associated to what a person believes to be there free will, and I don't believe for one minute that any person believing that because they have been born with freedom of choice that somehow they are equal to anyone else, and then to go on to say predestination is all wrong because of they feal about there own freedom of choice

Well God knows our.past present and future

Nope sorry free will is just a mental block in the hands of many.

Simply put if your not predestined your not saved and can't be.

Peace and grace to you

Ah yes the free will and predestination thing, while I do think that free will is very much misunderstood as far as being predestined to be saved can you cite any scripture to support that?
here is my understanding The Bible indicates that God desires all people to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. 1 Timothy 2:4 says, "who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.", signifying God's universal will for salvation. While God desires all to be saved, the Bible also acknowledges that not all will choose salvation, highlighting the concept of free will

But notice how it says the word all in this verse not some not the chosen but all

 

[Blain]

“Yes it is true that with all the different doctrines it can be difficult to have peace amongst each other but even with that we can still show respect and love for one another.”

agree completely.

what I was getting at is when we all meet here and agree in these types of things that Jesus taught believers in the gospel

“Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall be given into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:36-38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

see if we all agreed with Jesus doctrine for Gods children “Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.”

we would all learn to be merciful and to forgive and not to judge each other nor condemn others.

another example Would be “ turn the other cheek don’t retaliate evil for evil “ if we all agreed with that teaching it would solve a lot of problems between believers. He teaches us not to gossip and brag and lie and cheat and steal ect if we all agreed and bekieved those were the things God said to believers there would just be unity we could learn from each other then one man could talk about this teaching or that parable another could discuss this sayong or that teaching ect to learn from Jesus rather than removing his word which is where faith exists for all

my point was when other doctrines come and explain “ that’s not correct we don’t have to do that thing Jesus is teaching that’s not for us ect it’s going to cause a situation where there’s non unity or co for mitt of thought to what Jesus taught which is the goal for us to let out thinking conform to his believing his word

“And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, ( this happens listening to Jesus word believing ) that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭12:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“and be renewed in the spirit of your mind;”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That happens listening to Jesus word his teachings and lessons in the gospel about God about our selves and the world now and the one to come for believers ect

It begins to change our understanding of God even that he is our father is doctrine of Jesus

“And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭23:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

No one was teaching this until Jesus the only son came telling those who believed in him.

afterwards it was Christian doctrine

“But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

He taught them that they were Gods chhildren when they came to him otherwise no one could believe that doctrine. But afterwards

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus words in the gospel bear witness tbat believers are gods children that’s what I’m saying all the things we should agree with are in the gospel and that’s where there is unity in the body of Christ when Jesus gives us our answers in the gospel

Personally I believe in clean cut scripture no interpretations no doctrine based on a certain belief but what it says is what it says clean cut and clear if one says it doesn't mean what it says in my opinion they are just adding to scripture using their own understanding to interpret scripture

 

[GWH]

Personally I believe in clean cut scripture no interpretations no doctrine based on a certain belief but what it says is what it says clean cut and clear if one says it doesn't mean what it says in my opinion they are just adding to scripture using their own understanding to interpret scripture

What you think it says is your own understanding, and your opinion that their understanding is wrong may be wrong,
and the translation involves interpretation, so there is no way to escape having belief/doctrine, Blain.

Which interpretation/opinion/doctrine is best or most true? Answering this question involves understanding how truth is acquired (epistemology). Some knowledge is gleaned directly from personal experiences and is available to all who seek to know the truth with an open mind by means of reflecting or meditating on experiences logically. The apostle Paul indicated the world reveals God’s “invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature” (Rom. 1:20) and that conscience indicates “the requirements of the law” (Rom. 2:15).

A second possible way of obtaining knowledge is by learning from the insights or inspiration of others. Divinely inspired knowledge was claimed by Jesus (in John 14:9-11), Paul (in Gal. 1:11-12 & Tit. 1:1-3). Insights could be a combination of reflection and inspiration, perhaps taught by God’s indwelling Spirit, who Jesus said would “guide you into all truth” (JN 16:13).

The problem for truthseekers is evaluating the various teachers or claimants to knowledge, especially when their messages are contradictory. In my opinion humanism provides no hope for ultimate “oughtness”, because there is no logical way to avoid moral relativism without a superhuman Judge. Karmaism offers a rationale for reincarnation, but I have explained why I view it as incredible. Naturalism does not even provide a rationale for morality/the UMI, but rather it implies that what is, is right. However, I do find reasons to believe NT theism is true.

While conducting a comprehensive comparison of theistic religions is not my desire, I think any open-minded truthseeker who compares the NT teachings of Jesus and Paul with the founding scriptures of other religions will reach the same conclusion as I have: The NT is the most credible canon or collection of writings purporting to be a communique from God. The NT hope for heaven is based on evidence in support of Jesus’ claim to be Messiah/Christ, which includes: the prophecy or foreshadowing of His life (in various OT scriptures, including Isa. 53 and Psa. 22, and by the sacrificial system), the purpose of His death (as explained in the NT, such as Heb. 7:18-10:18), and the probability or credibility of His resurrection (in history as recorded by the last chapters of the Gospels and Rom. 1:3-4).

A biblical hermeneutic or parameters for interpreting the Bible might well begin with the instruction of Paul (1Thes. 5:21) to “Test everything. Hold on to the good.” A truthseeker is guided by the question: What is most true or closest to the truth, especially the Truth of God’s Word? The method for discerning truth employs subjective logic that is made as objective as possible by learning from Scriptural and other truthseekers. As a result of seeking ultimate truth, I have come to value two NT teachings as key points from which to triangulate or use to guide an interpretation of the Bible, especially problematic statements.

First, God loves and wants to save everyone. Seven Scriptures teaching divine omnilove include: 1JN 4:7-12, RM 5:8, MT 5:44&48, GL 5:6&14, EPH 3:17b-19, EPH 5:2 and 1TM 2:3-4, which might be deemed the “7 pearls”. Christ died to show God’s love and the possible salvation of all (RM 5:6-8) including His enemies (ungodly, atheist, anti-Christ).

Second, God is just (2THS 1:6a, cf. RM 3:25-26 & 9:14, DT 32:4, PS 36:6, LK 11:42, RV 15:3). Explanations of God’s Word should not impugn God’s justice and love for all people (JL 2:13, JN 3:16). This parameter is affirmed in the OT (PS 145:17): “The Lord is righteous in all his ways, and holy in all his works.” Even the wrath of God (hell) is an expression of His love and justice. The writer of Hebrews (12:4-11) indicates that divine wrath is intended as discipline for the purpose of teaching people to repent of their hatefulness and faithlessness (PR 3:12, IS 33:14-15 RV 3:19). Unrighteous rage should not be attributed to God.

Those who view the biblical canon as inspired by God disagree about what this means. Some people speak as though God dictated every word of the Bible to the human writers, which causes confusion because the dictation theory has several caveats, such as that it refers to the original manuscripts (which we do not have) correctly interpreted. And the key to correct interpretation is NOT viewing the Bible as a modern science or history textbook, but rather as concerned with communicating God’s will to humanity regarding His requirement for salvation: THAT is what is inerrant!

The salvationist view of inspiration seems more logical than the dictationist view according to the following train of thought: Suppose God Himself wrote the inerrant message to humanity: “Thou shalt not lie, steal, murder or fornicate.” Suppose the first manuscript copier accidentally left out the comma between lie and steal. Would that invalidate God’s commandment? No, but it is still a mistake and no longer perfectly inerrant. Now suppose an evil copier intentionally changed the word fornicate to fumigate. Would that invalidate God’s commandment? Not all of it; only the changed word.

How could we know which word or words were correct and not changed? We would need to compare the commandment with other statements purported to be inspired by God in order to see what is the overall or consistent message, so that we can acquire sufficient evidence to have reasonable belief that the word fumigate should be discounted. Finally, suppose that no one changed God’s original commandment. How could we know absolutely or infallibly that it was inerrant? We could not; we walk by faith. We would still need to compare it with the totality of truth in order to discover whether there were any inconsistencies.

Hence the need to learn as much of GW ASAP (Matt. 4:4, Eph. 4:11-15)!

 

[Magenta]

as far as being predestined to be saved can you cite any scripture to support that?

And we know that God works all things together for the good of those who love Him, who are called according to His purpose. For those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified. Romans 8 verses 28-30 For He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless in His presence. In love He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will. Ephesians 1 verses 4-5

Romans 8 verse 29-30; Ephesians 1 verse 5 ~ Those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified. He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will.

 

[Magenta]

Personally I believe in clean cut scripture no interpretations no doctrine based on a certain belief but what it says is what it says clean cut and clear if one says it doesn't mean what it says in my opinion they are just adding to scripture using their own understanding to interpret scripture

I had someone tell me today that where Scripture (specifically) says, can't, or cannot, it means can. He insisted
on this after adding the word "if" into a number of verses. It is truly astounding what some get up to.

 

[Mem]

Who values others above themselves by nature?

 

[Blain]

And we know that God works all things together for the good of those who love Him, who are called according to His purpose. For those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified. Romans 8 verses 28-30 For He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless in His presence. In love He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will. Ephesians 1 verses 4-5

Romans 8 verse 29-30; Ephesians 1 verse 5 ~ Those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified. He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will.

So what does this mean then? The verse 1 Timothy 2:4 states that God desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth

 

[Blain]

I had someone tell me today that where Scripture (specifically) says, can't, or cannot, it means can. He insisted
on this after adding the word "if" into a number of verses. It is truly astounding what some get up to.

Interesting.... this was today? what thread was that in?

 

[Magenta]

So what does this mean then? The verse 1 Timothy 2:4 states that God desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth

It means what it says. Do you think it contradicts Romans and Ephesians? How
do you read the Romans and Ephesians verses? Do they not mean what they say?

 

[Blain]

It means what it says. Do you think it contradicts Romans and Ephesians?

No I don't think it does no scripture contradicts scripture only our understanding of it does. so if God desires that all come to be saved then how can only a select people be chosen?

 

[Jordon]

Ah yes the free will and predestination thing, while I do think that free will is very much misunderstood as far as being predestined to be saved can you cite any scripture to support that?
here is my understanding The Bible indicates that God desires all people to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. 1 Timothy 2:4 says, "who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.", signifying God's universal will for salvation. While God desires all to be saved, the Bible also acknowledges that not all will choose salvation, highlighting the concept of free will

But notice how it says the word all in this verse not some not the chosen but all

Hi again friend, I do believe in peace and unity to, I believe you've had one good reply from magenta

I would just give a bit more clarity to my understandings.

We know the Bible contains prophecies that predict future events, which proves to me God knows the future, also when to talk about God's sovereignty, we talk about God being in control of all things and knowing all things,





The Bible, for example, contains numerous prophecies that predict future events, which are interpreted as evidence of God's knowledge of the future.

When we read Isaiah we See that God God declares the end from the beginning and in Jeremiah we see God's plans of the future which is further proof and evidence of God's foreknowledge,

It's true God desires all to be saved and it's true God takes no pleasure in punishing the wicked, however for anyone to be handed to the son they have to be handed over by father

Peace and grace to you as always. Bye for now.

 

[Blain]

Hi again friend, I do believe in peace and unity to, I believe you've had one good reply from magenta

I would just give a bit more clarity to my understandings.

We know the Bible contains prophecies that predict future events, which proves to me God knows the future, also when to talk about God's sovereignty, we talk about God being in control of all things and knowing all things,





The Bible, for example, contains numerous prophecies that predict future events, which are interpreted as evidence of God's knowledge of the future.

When we read Isaiah we See that God God declares the end from the beginning and in Jeremiah we see God's plans of the future which is further proof and evidence of God's foreknowledge,

It's true God desires all to be saved and it's true God takes no pleasure in punishing the wicked, however for anyone to be handed to the son they have to be handed over by father

Peace and grace to you as always. Bye for now.

If indeed it is true that he desires all to be saved then why say that then say elsewhere that he has a select chosen to be saved? Also it is good to see you again