Here are the differences between the last two prophetic comings of Christ (the Rapture vs Second Coming)

[Howdy]

Maybe you've never been in the military? You might call it a survival strategy or you might call it a military type strategy. The area is big enough for many people and yet is one of the most defensible places on earth. It's Petra for that reason and is well accepted amongst (most) bible scholars.

They will not need a defensible place.
God will protect them.
If He does not, they will all die.
Just because it is accepted among most Bible scholars does not make it so.
I accept what the Bible says, not the opinions of sinful men as you seem to.

 

[Edward429451]

They will not need a defensible place.
God will protect them.
If He does not, they will all die.
Just because it is accepted among most Bible scholars does not make it so.
I accept what the Bible says, not the opinions of sinful men as you seem to.

Don't get upset so early in the day. You wont have any left for the rest of the day!

So the word Trinity is not in the Bible anywhere. Do you not believe in the Trinity? Cell phones are never mentioned in scripture, do you not believe n them?

I agree with you that God will protect them. Ok so what do you do first to protect (anyone)? Make a foundation? You're right! Well, Petra would make a good foundation.

What's your major point here? That scripture does not say they will be in Petra? Then point made and I agree.

But where else can they go? Shall they go out into the desert into the wide open empty places?

Now you have told me twice that you've studied scripture for 60 years. That's great Brother. But can you ask yourself if you have ever been wrong and made a mistake about anything? You come across like, you are incapable of any mistake. Has that always been the case?

Scripture says, in the last days God will pour out His Spirit onto men and knowledge shall be increased...right?

Ok so are you alluding that when God pours out His Spirit and knowledge increases, that God isn't allowed to give any new information or revelations that are not in scripture as we know it? Could you point me to that verse that says that?

Do you remember that old bumper sticker that says, God said it, I Believe it. That settles it? Remember?

Where does it say that God's word has to be written? Can God even speak new (to us) truths that are not in scripture? Is God allowed to speak to men if He wants to?

Being overly sure of oneself removes our ability to correct ourselves and learn. We must remain teachable. Is it even possible that in 60 years of study, you never overlooked anything or made even one mistake?

 

[Howdy]

Don't get upset so early in the day. You wont have any left for the rest of the day!

So the word Trinity is not in the Bible anywhere. Do you not believe in the Trinity? Cell phones are never mentioned in scripture, do you not believe n them?

I agree with you that God will protect them. Ok so what do you do first to protect (anyone)? Make a foundation? You're right! Well, Petra would make a good foundation.

What's your major point here? That scripture does not say they will be in Petra? Then point made and I agree.

But where else can they go? Shall they go out into the desert into the wide open empty places?

Now you have told me twice that you've studied scripture for 60 years. That's great Brother. But can you ask yourself if you have ever been wrong and made a mistake about anything? You come across like, you are incapable of any mistake. Has that always been the case?

Scripture says, in the last days God will pour out His Spirit onto men and knowledge shall be increased...right?

Ok so are you alluding that when God pours out His Spirit and knowledge increases, that God isn't allowed to give any new information or revelations that are not in scripture as we know it? Could you point me to that verse that says that?

Do you remember that old bumper sticker that says, God said it, I Believe it. That settles it? Remember?

Where does it say that God's word has to be written? Can God even speak new (to us) truths that are not in scripture? Is God allowed to speak to men if He wants to?

Being overly sure of oneself removes our ability to correct ourselves and learn. We must remain teachable. Is it even possible that in 60 years of study, you never overlooked anything or made even one mistake?

I am not upset.
I am actually laughing at just how ridiculous what you are saying is.
I do believe it if God said it, it will happen just as He said.
If God reveals something to you it must agree with the written Word.
I agree that being overly assure of oneself limits are ability to learn the truth. You should heed that warning.
Can they go into the desert and God protect them, of course they can.
What happens to the army coming as a flood?
God opens the earth and consumes it.
The God I worship and serve does not need any help. Especially from me or you.
As I said, it is laughable what some people believe and post.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

I am not upset.
I am actually laughing at just how ridiculous what you are saying is.
I do believe it if God said it, it will happen just as He said.
If God reveals something to you it must agree with the written Word.
I agree that being overly assure of oneself limits are ability to learn the truth. You should heed that warning.
Can they go into the desert and God protect them, of course they can.
What happens to the army coming as a flood?
God opens the earth and consumes it.
The God I worship and serve does not need any help. Especially from me or you.
As I said, it is laughable what some people believe and post.

I agree with you. That's why I don't get into pre-trib/post-trib debates anymore because, you are right, that God revealed in the Bible plainly how things will happen - and what He says will happen exactly as He says. The Bible plainly says the rapture will happen after the tribulation - and all these deluded pre-tribbers won't be ready for it. No silly charts required!

 

[Mem]

The argument of a pretrib rapture being designed after a marriage doesn't hold up in that the groom is excused from warfare for an entire year in order that he may focus on 'making his wife happy', so how does the groom fulfill his duty to his wife if he raptures her up and then abandons her in her new home to go a make war with the antichrist? The millennial reign will be nothing less than a reign of peace on earth until the beast is released to take his endeavor to deceive all that he can once again, at which time he will then be utterly and completely destroyed in the lake of fire.

 

[Psalm1]

The argument of a pretrib rapture being designed after a marriage doesn't hold up in that the groom is excused from warfare for an entire year in order that he may focus on 'making his wife happy', so how does the groom fulfill his duty to his wife if he raptures her up and then abandons her in her new home to go a make war with the antichrist? The millennial reign will be nothing less than a reign of peace on earth until the beast is released to take his endeavor to deceive all that he can once again, at which time he will then be utterly and completely destroyed in the lake of fire.

Exactly.
The pretrib rapture flows nicely with those dynamics.
Groom gathers the bride, takes her to the father's house for the wedding,then returns with her.
I recently came across yet another verse supporting the pretrib rapture.
I have always contended that early on in the tribulation. believers or martyr possibly billions of them kill by the Antichrist.
I have always contended that the nuberable number seen in heaven are those martyrs at the beginning of the 7 yr trib by the Antichrist.
The Bible says they , the innumerable number, are waving Palm branches which I believe compares metaphorically with Jesus triumphal entry and the waving of Palm branches, which was done at the Feast of Tabernacles ,and in that feast they waive them for 7 days, which compares with the 7 year tribulation, or, they are in heaven 7 yrs.

so the Enumerable number that is there in heaven, appears to enter early in the 7 yr trib.
7 days waving palm branches translate to a 7 year time frame.
So yes, they are martyr at the Beginning of the tribulation period of seven years.

 

[Mem]

Exactly.
The pretrib rapture flows nicely with those dynamics.
Groom gathers the bride, takes her to the father's house for the wedding,then returns with her.
I recently came across yet another verse supporting the pretrib rapture.
I have always contended that early on in the tribulation. believers or martyr possibly billions of them kill by the Antichrist.
I have always contended that the nuberable number seen in heaven are those martyrs at the beginning of the 7 yr trib by the Antichrist.
The Bible says they , the innumerable number, are waving Palm branches which I believe compares metaphorically with Jesus triumphal entry and the waving of Palm branches, which was done at the Feast of Tabernacles ,and in that feast they waive them for 7 days, which compares with the 7 year tribulation, or, they are in heaven 7 yrs.

so the Enumerable number that is there in heaven, appears to enter early in the 7 yr trib.
7 days waving palm branches translate to a 7 year time frame.
So yes, they are martyr at the Beginning of the tribulation period of seven years.

Thank you! This clarifies what has been the most perplexing to me between the views, which amounts to the proximity of the LORD during the rapture.
The pre- view sees Him staying with His bride, and away from the world's affairs while the antichrist reigns, and then, after 7 years, they return together to commence their thousand-year reign.
And the post- view sees Him liberating her from the antichrist's reign and ruling with her a thousand years. There's really only a difference of the 7-year table of events between them, which amounts to the time allotment of the reign of the antichrist.

However, the pre-trib view seems to be a fusion of wrath and tribulation with a qualification that only Jews suffer the tribulation while both agree the wicked suffer the wrath.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

No it's not. You just aren't allowing for the resurrection of the saints and the taking of the church for His Bride. There's more than 2 resurrections, already has been. Like in

Matthew 27:
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many..../KJV

This already happened when Jesus resurrected. You would do well to study more Brother. If the rapture doesn't happen until after the great trib., then how do you reconcile that no one knows the day or time? (Already posted that). A doctrine must agree with all of scriptures and must not create contradictions.

He promised 1 resurrection in the ot to them in that covenant when he came

“Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭37:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

then in the New Testament he promised a second resurrection for those in that covenant when he comes back from heaven

“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭4:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

at here are two resurrections because he promised one in each testament for when the messiah came to earth one happened after Jesus rose up of the saints of the ot . There’s another one thats going to happen when Jesus returns from heaven

it’s only when he’s come to earth that a mass resurrection will happen

One when he came before to bear sin

“and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭27:52-53‬ ‭KJV‬‬

When he returns a second time without sin with salvation then the rest of the dead will rise up

“so Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many;

and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9:28‬ ‭KJV‬‬


theres two resurrections because there are two testaments in the Bible each one has a promise of a resurrection

 

[Jackson129]

I agree with you. That's why I don't get into pre-trib/post-trib debates anymore because, you are right, that God revealed in the Bible plainly how things will happen - and what He says will happen exactly as He says. The Bible plainly says the rapture will happen after the tribulation - and all these deluded pre-tribbers won't be ready for it. No silly charts required!

Wait does this mean me and @Howdy agree on something. Im post trib as well.

 

[Edward429451]

He promised 1 resurrection in the ot to them in that covenant when he came

“Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭37:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

then in the New Testament he promised a second resurrection for those in that covenant when he comes back from heaven

“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭4:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

at here are two resurrections because he promised one in each testament for when the messiah came to earth one happened after Jesus rose up of the saints of the ot . There’s another one thats going to happen when Jesus returns from heaven

it’s only when he’s come to earth that a mass resurrection will happen

One when he came before to bear sin

“and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭27:52-53‬ ‭KJV‬‬

When he returns a second time without sin with salvation then the rest of the dead will rise up

“so Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many;

and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9:28‬ ‭KJV‬‬


theres two resurrections because there are two testaments in the Bible each one has a promise of a resurrection

There's two resurrections when Jesus is on earth as you have shown. However, scripture also talks about a time when Jesus returns to rapture His Bride away. That visit happens in the air and Jesus does not come to earth.

When Jesus comes in the air for the church it says in a twinkling of an eye we will be transformed. So at the rapture, wThe curch.Bride receives her spiritual body. Those who have died in Christ are raised first and their spirit/soul rejoins their body and is transformed into a resurrection body, like Jesus had after His resurrection, He could walk through walls and stuff, spiritual. Those who get raptured and are still alive when Jesus comes in the air get transformed in both body and spirit and we all go to meet Jesus in the air and we go back to heaven with Him while the Great Tribulation comes upon the earth.

At Jesus 2nd coming (To Earth) it says, He brings His Saints with Him. Those are those who were pre trib raptured, and Jesus will put down all evil and set up His Millennial Kingdom on earth for 1000 years.

During the Millennium is when, the meek inherit the earth, Israel's borders will be all they way out like He promised in the OT, and we will live and reign (In our Resurrection Bodies!) alongside Jesus for 1000 years and there will be people still being born with that adamic nature (with zero Abortions!) and will have to accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior just like we have to.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

There's two resurrections when Jesus is on earth as you have shown. However, scripture also talks about a time when Jesus returns to rapture His Bride away. That visit happens in the air and Jesus does not come to earth.

When Jesus comes in the air for the church it says in a twinkling of an eye we will be transformed. So at the rapture, wThe curch.Bride receives her spiritual body. Those who have died in Christ are raised first and their spirit/soul rejoins their body and is transformed into a resurrection body, like Jesus had after His resurrection, He could walk through walls and stuff, spiritual. Those who get raptured and are still alive when Jesus comes in the air get transformed in both body and spirit and we all go to meet Jesus in the air and we go back to heaven with Him while the Great Tribulation comes upon the earth.

At Jesus 2nd coming (To Earth) it says, He brings His Saints with Him. Those are those who were pre trib raptured, and Jesus will put down all evil and set up His Millennial Kingdom on earth for 1000 years.

During the Millennium is when, the meek inherit the earth, Israel's borders will be all they way out like He promised in the OT, and we will live and reign (In our Resurrection Bodies!) alongside Jesus for 1000 years and there will be people still being born with that adamic nature (with zero Abortions!) and will have to accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior just like we have to.

The marriage occurs after the tribulation. It's not going to happen while there are still members of his bride on earth getting persecuted and killed by the antichrist.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

There's two resurrections when Jesus is on earth as you have shown. However, scripture also talks about a time when Jesus returns to rapture His Bride away. That visit happens in the air and Jesus does not come to earth.

When Jesus comes in the air for the church it says in a twinkling of an eye we will be transformed. So at the rapture, wThe curch.Bride receives her spiritual body. Those who have died in Christ are raised first and their spirit/soul rejoins their body and is transformed into a resurrection body, like Jesus had after His resurrection, He could walk through walls and stuff, spiritual. Those who get raptured and are still alive when Jesus comes in the air get transformed in both body and spirit and we all go to meet Jesus in the air and we go back to heaven with Him while the Great Tribulation comes upon the earth.

At Jesus 2nd coming (To Earth) it says, He brings His Saints with Him. Those are those who were pre trib raptured, and Jesus will put down all evil and set up His Millennial Kingdom on earth for 1000 years.

During the Millennium is when, the meek inherit the earth, Israel's borders will be all they way out like He promised in the OT, and we will live and reign (In our Resurrection Bodies!) alongside Jesus for 1000 years and there will be people still being born with that adamic nature (with zero Abortions!) and will have to accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior just like we have to.

“However, scripture also talks about a time when Jesus returns to rapture His Bride away. That visit happens in the air and Jesus does not come to earth. “

him coming in the air is all he’s going to do when he comes back he’s going to but the earth with fire right after he gathers all his people after the resurrection of the dead they will meet Jesus on the air and then anyone that’s still living will be instantly changed to thier eternal form



“Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:51-52‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s another detail he’s giving of this day

“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭4:16-17‬ ‭

that’s just telling us another detail of Jesus return they all are just adding details and revelation of what he said in the gospel

and that same day as soon as that happens this will it’s another detail of the same event when Jesus returns from heaven

“in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; when he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe in that day.”
‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭1:8-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, and saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. but the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:3-4, 7, 10-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

try doing a topical study and instead of look for several comings of Jesus look for the details of his promised return at the end remember it says every eye will see his retirn ….that’s because the dead will be raised up as it happens like Paul’s saying there the dead in Christ will rise to meet Jesus and the others in Christ that are still alive tbat day then after that the rest of the dead will be judged with fire and vengeance he’s promised from creations fall everything will be destroyed in the lake of fire

 

[Howdy]

Beginning with Stephen, untold millions of believers have died just because they were believers.
During the early church history, this continued. Believers are still dying violent deaths every day, just because they are believers.
These believers died because of their refusal to comprise, because they followed our Lord's instructions.
They suffered much persecution, tribulation, and often death.
They made disciple, and taught them. They met together to teach and study and learn.
Most who say they are believers today would be lying if they said they were doing as our forefathers did.
Yet these same believers believe that will never happen to them, Jesus would never let His church go through tribulation.
They seem to think they are better than their forefathers, more holy, more worthy.
What I see is a lot of old fashion pride on full display with these people.
Not a one of us is worthy to escape the coming tribulation.
None will unless we die before it begins.

 

[Psalm1]

There's two resurrections when Jesus is on earth as you have shown. However, scripture also talks about a time when Jesus returns to rapture His Bride away. That visit happens in the air and Jesus does not come to earth.

When Jesus comes in the air for the church it says in a twinkling of an eye we will be transformed. So at the rapture, wThe curch.Bride receives her spiritual body. Those who have died in Christ are raised first and their spirit/soul rejoins their body and is transformed into a resurrection body, like Jesus had after His resurrection, He could walk through walls and stuff, spiritual. Those who get raptured and are still alive when Jesus comes in the air get transformed in both body and spirit and we all go to meet Jesus in the air and we go back to heaven with Him while the Great Tribulation comes upon the earth.

At Jesus 2nd coming (To Earth) it says, He brings His Saints with Him. Those are those who were pre trib raptured, and Jesus will put down all evil and set up His Millennial Kingdom on earth for 1000 years.

During the Millennium is when, the meek inherit the earth, Israel's borders will be all they way out like He promised in the OT, and we will live and reign (In our Resurrection Bodies!) alongside Jesus for 1000 years and there will be people still being born with that adamic nature (with zero Abortions!) and will have to accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior just like we have to.

Pretty much so.
Well said.
This is vividly illustrated in the virgin parable.
Those left behind were told to go get something they lost.
In the 7 letters Of revelation they are also told to go get something that they lost.

In Matthew, chapter 24 and chapter 25.
There are stories where half were left behind

 

[Howdy]

Pretty much so.
Well said.
This is vividly illustrated in the virgin parable.
Those left behind were told to go get something they lost.
In the 7 letters Of revelation they are also told to go get something that they lost.

In Matthew, chapter 24 and chapter 25.
There are stories where half were left behind

Another post that denies the truth plainly stated in Revelation 20.

 

[Psalm1]

Another post that denies the truth plainly stated in Revelation 20.

There are several truths of rev 20.
I deny none of them.

Be specific in your allegations.

 

[Edward429451]

There are several truths of rev 20.
I deny none of them.

Be specific in your allegations.

He wont be specific. He has one scripture that he's holding on to that I suppose he thinks makes his entire case and it just isn't so.

 

[Howdy]

There are several truths of rev 20.
I deny none of them.

Be specific in your allegations.

Revelation states that all who are are not in the first resurrection will suffer the second death.
The second death is the lake of fire.
All whose name is not in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire.
Those who are beheaded, do not take the mark or worship the beast or his image will be in the first resurrection.
Even a very simple mind can understand the first resurrection comes after the great tribulation.

 

[Psalm1]

Revelation states that all who are are not in the first resurrection will suffer the second death.
The second death is the lake of fire.
All whose name is not in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire.
Those who are beheaded, do not take the mark or worship the beast or his image will be in the first resurrection.
Even a very simple mind can understand the first resurrection comes after the great tribulation.

There is zero resurrection between the 7 yr trib and the mill.
What translation are you reading?

 

[Howdy]

He wont be specific. He has one scripture that he's holding on to that I suppose he thinks makes his entire case and it just isn't so.

When you explain in a logical way how Revelation 20 fits your pre-trib rapture of the church, we will proceed with many verses.