Here are the differences between the last two prophetic comings of Christ (the Rapture vs Second Coming)

[Howdy]

When Jesus spoke to John on patmos it was the sound of a trumpet.

So no, you are simply thinking your 2 verses make my 10 verses disappear.

You do understand that the weight of scripture makes my position?

You have what?...2 verses ?

.....and making Rev 14 disappear has been tried by the best postribbers.
They can not unpack it without changing the wording.

Ask a podtribber to interpret act 1 " like manner".
They will give you 3 or 4 scenarios of how " like manner" , "fits"

It is actually entertaining watching them miss the obvious, and add a myriad of dynamics to avoid the obvious.

Same with the virgin parable,
The Virgin parable has several Components to the parable that are critical in order to get the meaning.
Ask a postribber to interpret the Virgin parable.
You will not believe how many components in the parable. They must change do make it fit their doctrine.

Wow...that is bizarre

Here is the difference in what I say and what you say.
I quote verses and believe what they reveal.
You quote verses and twist them to fit you belief.
You refuse to accept the inspired Word of God when it proves you are deceived.
Just like when you say there is no post tribulation resurrection.
Paul spoke of people like you when he said they are ever learning but never understanding the truth.
Who ever has been teaching you have lead you into a state of denying the truth.
I pray you will learn the truth in the future.

 

[Psalm1]

How to justify a belief is a pre-trib rapture of the church.
First resurrection does not mean first.
Last Trump does not mean last.
After the tribulation does not mean after the tribulation.
When evil men say the wrath of God has come, believe them.
Shall I go on?

First resurrection is always truth.
Always has been.

There is no resurrection from the writing of bible at the period of rev 20.
The first resurrection has already happened by Rev 20.time frame (post 7 yr trib).

You got it wrong....most likely from the niv.
Are you getting your info from the niv?

I have shown countless people what is being said in Rev 20.

.....and Rev 14 makes your "first resurrection " AFTER THE GATHERING OF REV 14. ( completely WRONG TIME FRAME...IN FACT IT IS IMPOSSIBLE)

REV 14 gathering is DURING THE TRIB.

.....and get this....Rev 14 has the FIRSTFRUITS gathered DURING THE TRIB.
( You did not carefully think it through)


Furthermore the firstfruits of Rev 14 DO NOT INCLUDE JESUS.

There is a ton of testimony by God showing the folly of making Rev 20 the first resurrection.


....literally impossible as I have shown.

 

[Psalm1]

Here is the difference in what I say and what you say.
I quote verses and believe what they reveal.
You quote verses and twist them to fit you belief.
You refuse to accept the inspired Word of God when it proves you are deceived.
Just like when you say there is no post tribulation resurrection.
Paul spoke of people like you when he said they are ever learning but never understanding the truth.
Who ever has been teaching you have lead you into a state of denying the truth.
I pray you will learn the truth in the future.

Rev 14 is plain as day.
Unbelievably plain that you have placed the first resurrection ( the dead in Chrisrt rising first, then the living)
You are telling me that AFTER the gathering of Rev 14 the dead in Christ rise?????

Then 1 thes 4 is wrong.

And you accuse my accuracy of twisting?

Like I said earlier postrib doctrine CHANGES Rev 20, acts 1, matt24, Matt 25, Rev 19, and Rev 14.

Just plain bizarre what is needed to make your case

 

[Howdy]

First resurrection is always truth.
Always has been.

There is no resurrection from the writing of bible at the period of rev 20.
The first resurrection has already happened by Rev 20.time frame (post 7 yr trib).

You got it wrong....most likely from the niv.
Are you getting your info from the niv?

I have shown countless people what is being said in Rev 20.

.....and Rev 14 makes your "first resurrection " AFTER THE GATHERING OF REV 14. ( completely WRONG TIME FRAME...IN FACT IT IS IMPOSSIBLE)

REV 14 gathering is DURING THE TRIB.

.....and get this....Rev 14 has the FIRSTFRUITS gathered DURING THE TRIB.
( You did not carefully think it through)


Furthermore the firstfruits of Rev 14 DO NOT INCLUDE JESUS.

There is a ton of testimony by God showing the folly of making Rev 20 the first resurrection.


....literally impossible as I have shown.

And the private interpretation of Scripture continues---------------------------

 

[Psalm1]

How to justify a belief is a pre-trib rapture of the church.
First resurrection does not mean first.
Last Trump does not mean last.
After the tribulation does not mean after the tribulation.
When evil men say the wrath of God has come, believe them.
Shall I go on?

Take one of the pretrib rapture verses and we will debate it.
I listed them for you.

 

[Psalm1]

And the private interpretation of Scripture continues---------------------------

Show me the correct interpretation.

Take any of them and correct me.

They are all super plain and simple.

 

[Psalm1]

Take acts one as an example.
Show me "like manner".
Show me how it fits your doctrine

 

[Psalm1]

We can save Rev 14 for later

 

[Howdy]

Take one of the pretrib rapture verses and we will debate it.
I listed them for you.

Will not waste my time on a person who has reached a point they will not entertain the possibility they are wrong.

 

[Howdy]

Take acts one as an example.
Show me "like manner".
Show me how it fits your doctrine

When Jesus retired to the Father, how did the event take place?
He left the earth and ascended up in a cloud.
His second coming will be the same.
He will come to the earth, not stop midway as you believe.

 

[Howdy]

Rev 14 is plain as day.
Unbelievably plain that you have placed the first resurrection ( the dead in Chrisrt rising first, then the living)
You are telling me that AFTER the gathering of Rev 14 the dead in Christ rise?????

Then 1 thes 4 is wrong.

And you accuse my accuracy of twisting?

Like I said earlier postrib doctrine CHANGES Rev 20, acts 1, matt24, Matt 25, Rev 19, and Rev 14.

Just plain bizarre what is needed to make your case

The only thing needed to make my case is accepting the truth revealed in Scripture.
You must spend hours and hours twisting Scripture to say what you want it to say.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

I totally believe that the Antichrist will come very soon. Because anyone can look at this world and see the stage is being set for a one world government and leader.
They are working on a computer right now as a data base for everybody on the planet.
That system is coming and coming soon.

And it will be a total surprise to those that are not paying attention.
I also believe that right away Christians will be arrested and taken to massive open air compounds detention centers.
We will be the haters.
We will be those that refuse to mark.
People like you will be there mocking people like me. Kinda like what you're doing right now.

It will possibly be in those giant open air detention centers that the pretrib rapture will take place.
But those that aren't watching for him will not be taken up. They will face the Antichrist.

Many will lose heart as they are mocked and scolded for their foolishsness....Kinda like you are doing now.

God has prepared me, so nothing you say will scare me. But since you're waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting.... Will you be brave enough to face any of this? Because you will go through it too.

 

[Howdy]

Show me the correct interpretation.

Take any of them and correct me.

They are all super plain and simple.

You need to stop interpreting Scripture and just accept what is said.
There is no mystery.
Plain as day.
Apparently you do not understand that Revelation is not always in chronological order.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Will not waste my time on a person who has reached a point they will not entertain the possibility they are wrong.

I wouldn't worry about this. The event itself would prove him wrong. He won't even get to argue with the event telling it that it came at the wrong time.

 

[Howdy]

I wouldn't worry about this. The event itself would prove him wrong. He won't even get to argue with the event telling it that it came at the wrong time.

I can hear the people shouting to Jesus, Why did you make me go through tribulation?

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

I can hear the people shouting to Jesus, Why did you make me go through tribulation?

I don't want to think that will happen, but it probably will!

 

[Psalm1]

Revelation 14:4 These are they that were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These were redeeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
The Scripture does not say they are Ethnic Jews.
Another of your made up meanings.
You and many others are going be in complete shock and denial when the anti-christ comes forth and demands to be worshiped and you are still waiting for the pre-trib rapture of the church.
I am dune with this nonsense.

The Scripture does not say they are Ethnic Jews.
Another of your made up meanings.

rev 7
3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

Clearly ethnic Jews.
Unmistakable
You are welcome

 

[Psalm1]

How to justify a belief is a pre-trib rapture of the church.
First resurrection does not mean first.
Last Trump does not mean last.
After the tribulation does not mean after the tribulation.
When evil men say the wrath of God has come, believe them.
Shall I go on?

Jesus said "before the flood"

he said His coming is" before the flood".
Is before ,actually before?
Why do post tribulationists make it "after"?

 

[Psalm1]

When Jesus retired to the Father, how did the event take place?
He left the earth and ascended up in a cloud.
His second coming will be the same.
He will come to the earth, not stop midway as you believe.

He will come to the earth, not stop midway as you believe

actually now post tribulation adherents now claim he does stop for a period of time in the air to gather the elect.




lets take a more disciplined look.

Jesus in the sky with no accompanying white horses as postribers infer. (like manner is obviously not standing on earth...you added that)
The setting is normal life and everyday life. (Your model has NO SUCH SETTING)
There is no world leader demanding a mark. Your model has Christians in hiding in caves from the ac.
There is no worldwide tribulation with hailstones of fire and flying scorpions. ( under the post Trib theory the four horsemen I've already been unleashed the flying scorpions have been unleashed the hailstones of fire have happened 1/3 of the earth's population is destroyed and Christians are running from cave to cave from the Antichrist
the setting in acts 1 of like manner has only his elect present and it's not a worldwide event where those that are not believers are involved

now let's compare the acts1 event and setting to the actual setting that it is pointing to, and that is the pre tribulation rapture.

Let's see how it measures up to the event of the pre tribulation rapture model.;

in the pre tribulation rapture model, we see Jesus coming with his angels, and gathering of the church in the setting of normal life, everyday life, commerce, and planning for the future, as is described in Matthew 24, And meeting those who are raptured in the air and just like in the acts one model, continuing on up to heaven which is beyond obvious.

so we know what the setting is for the rapture and it is completely opposite of the post tribulation rapture model.

IOW there is nothing, in reality ,of acts chapter 1 "like manner", and the post tribulation rapture model.

it just simply does not fit

You have to way oversimplify it to avoid taking in the setting.
There is nothing of your doctrine's setting that matches.

 

[Psalm1]

I can hear the people shouting to Jesus, Why did you make me go through tribulation?

well, we see those that are left behind actually find themselves in heaven as the innumerable number waving palm branches. They are vividly described as having come out of the tribulation and have obviously been beheaded and are now in heaven and that is at the start of the tribulation.

Have you read where the Antichrist has given power to overcome the Saints?
Have you also read that everyone on planet earth takes the mark that is not written in the last book of life?
Have you read where the Saints overcome the Antichrist" by the blood of the lamb and the word of their testimony, and love not their lives unto death"?
Do you understand that means that they all died?
Are you now aware that there cannot possibly be some post tribulation rapture of live people? That notion is literally impossible