Justification by faith or works?

[mailmandan]

She didn't say any this. Don't falsely accuse her. Read her post over again.

I know exactly what she is saying: The next example is Abraham. We all know Abraham was a man of faith. But he was JUSTIFIED (saved) when he offered his son Issac as a sacrifice.

Abraham was saved in Genesis 15:6 (many years before he offered his son Isaac as a sacrifice) when his faith was accounted to him for righteousness and not his works. (Romans 4:2-3)

She also said: Just believing in Jesus is no better than the demons. And men and preachers who say “JUST BELIEVE! That’s ALL you have to do.” Are preaching the doctrine of demons.

Apparently, she does not understand the difference between believing "mental assent" that "there is one God" (James 2:19) and believing in the Lord Jesus Christ and being saved. (Acts 16:31) The latter involves faith, trust and reliance and not merely mental assent belief. She clearly teaches salvation by faith AND works and needs correction. If we must "add" our works to salvation through faith, then Christ is not enough. Works salvation is motivated by pride.

 

[mailmandan]

I just think this means our salvation is evident by the works produced through saving faith. In other words, saving faith produces works, not the other way around.

❧

It sounds like you are on the right track.

 

[mailmandan]

Confess them (1.John 1,9), but this is no work!! With which we could earn our salvation.

In regard to 1 John 1:9, notice that - "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" (1 John 1:9) is IN CONTRAST to - If we say that we have no sin, (present tense) we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us (1 John 1:8) and - If we say that we have not sinned, (past tense) we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. (1 John 1:10) This is certainly not about works salvation/earning salvation.

Certain people seem to misunderstand verse 9 to mean that we "must confess each and every sin that we commit as we commit them" (keep a specific inventory of every sin we have ever committed) as an "additional requirement" to "remain cleansed" and "if we forget a sin we are toast!" Who could actually write an exhaustive list of every sin they have ever committed or ever will commit? Sin is not only missing the mark by what we do but also what we fail to do. (James 4:17)

Believers "confess" (Greek - homologeó) speak the same/acknowledge/agree with God's perspective about their sins and have a settled recognition and ongoing acknowledgment that one is a sinner in need of cleansing and forgiveness in contrast with saying that we have no sin or that we have not sinned. (1 John 1:8-10)

 

[Edward429451]

In regard to 1 John 1:9, notice that - "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" (1 John 1:9) is IN CONTRAST to - If we say that we have no sin, (present tense) we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us (1 John 1:8) and - If we say that we have not sinned, (past tense) we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. (1 John 1:10) This is certainly not about works salvation/earning salvation.

Certain people seem to misunderstand verse 9 to mean that we "must confess each and every sin that we commit as we commit them" (keep a specific inventory of every sin we have ever committed) as an "additional requirement" to "remain cleansed" and "if we forget a sin we are toast!" Who could actually write an exhaustive list of every sin they have ever committed or ever will commit? Sin is not only missing the mark by what we do but also what we fail to do. (James 4:17)

Believers "confess" (Greek - homologeó) speak the same/acknowledge/agree with God's perspective about their sins and have a settled recognition and ongoing acknowledgment that one is a sinner in need of cleansing and forgiveness in contrast with saying that we have no sin or that we have not sinned. (1 John 1:8-10)

Now King David is called a man after God's own heart. But at one time he was guilty of Adultery and even of Murder in a small attempt to cover up the sin (from his constituents!). And this is a man after God's heart? Huh?!

Most people when they sin they draw away from the Lord in shame. Don't want to pray, admit anything and so forth. And that's the difference between most sinners and David. David didn' draw away, he came begging for mercy, every time. No one can get away from God

Psalm 139:7-8
7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?

8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there..../KJV

And David had the attitude of, I know I messed up bad Lord, I know I can not run or hide so what shall thou do with me?! King David had accountability before God. And God said, wow, this is man after my own heart...

God knows it is impossible for man to not sin before he is perfected and purified and transformed, so God has mercy on us knowing it is impossible for us to not sin, and He turns it all into a series of tests upon you.

So when you sin and feel like running away from the Lord, that is when you should be running to the Lord!
Lord I did it again, help me, Save Me!

They say the hardest part about being an Eternal Being...is the first Hundred Years!

 

[posthuman]

Just believing in Jesus is no better than the demons

James does not say demons believe and trust in the propitiation of Christ's blood for our sins.

James says demons are monotheistic.

i am tired of this verse being abused by people

 

[mailmandan]

James does not say demons believe and trust in the propitiation of Christ's blood for our sins.

James says demons are monotheistic.

i am tired of this verse being abused by people

I have often heard James 2:19 being abused by folks who seem to believe that ALL belief is the same "except for the lack of good works" and cannot seem to grasp a deeper belief that trusts in Jesus Christ alone for salvation (Acts 16:31) which also explains why these same folks have so much faith in works for salvation.

 

[JohnDB]

Justification does not come from sanctification...

However,
If you believe that Jesus has performed your Justification (He did)

Then you will begin the lifelong process of sanctification (aka: service, works, fruits)

That's it.....
Not difficult to understand, not subject to twisting or being made complicated.

Because the primary directive is to love God....not verbal assent and yet apathetic actions. (Every married guy knows that's a quick way to get divorced)
The second is to love others as yourself....
Because you love God it is now possible....and easy to perform sanctification tasks....like stop sinning, praying, studying scriptures, hanging out with other believers, and etc.

 

[GWH]

Yes, and I like to indicate the truth that genuine faith "naturally" produces good works/spiritual fruit
by calling it "cooperation" with God rather than "obedience", which sounds too much like the OT salvation
via works doctrine.

faith/will = good works (John 6:29, Eph. 2:8-10, Rom. 1:17).

 

[tyler87432f]

Now King David is called a man after God's own heart. But at one time he was guilty of Adultery and even of Murder in a small attempt to cover up the sin (from his constituents!). And this is a man after God's heart? Huh?!

Most people when they sin they draw away from the Lord in shame. Don't want to pray, admit anything and so forth. And that's the difference between most sinners and David. David didn' draw away, he came begging for mercy, every time. No one can get away from God

Psalm 139:7-8
7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?

8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there..../KJV

And David had the attitude of, I know I messed up bad Lord, I know I can not run or hide so what shall thou do with me?! King David had accountability before God. And God said, wow, this is man after my own heart...

God knows it is impossible for man to not sin before he is perfected and purified and transformed, so God has mercy on us knowing it is impossible for us to not sin, and He turns it all into a series of tests upon you.

So when you sin and feel like running away from the Lord, that is when you should be running to the Lord!
Lord I did it again, help me, Save Me!

They say the hardest part about being an Eternal Being...is the first Hundred Years!

In essence, both faith and works are interconnected—faith lays the foundation, and works demonstrate the reality of that faith in action. Just as spiritual light guides one’s path, practical efforts can illuminate the authenticity of belief, much like how Commercial LED lighting Texas provides both energy efficiency and brightness in everyday life.

 

[Soyeong]

It is argued whether people are saved by grace through faith alone or works by faith, and some regard the epistle of James as controversial due to this.
But there is no such thing as faith or works. Works are produced as a natural result of having faith. Remember; “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him as righteousness.” “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”

Character traits are not earned as the result of our works, but rather they are embodied through our works, so God's law was never given as a way of earning our righteousness, but as instructions for how to do works that embody that trait. The one and only way to attain a character trait is through faith but what it means to have a character trait is to be a doer of works that embody that trait. For example, the only way to become courageous is by faith alone apart from being required to have first done enough courageous works in order to earn it as the result, but it would be contradictory for someone to become courageous apart from becoming a doer of courageous works, and the same is true for righteousness and every other character trait. This is why the faith by which we are declared righteous apart from works does not abolish our need to be a doer of righteous works in obedience to God's law, but rather our faith upholds it (Romans 3:28-31) and why everyone who is a doer of righteous works in obedience to God's law is righteous (1 John 3:4-7).

While it is true that Abraham believed God, so he was declared righteous (Genesis 15:6), it is also true that he was a doer of righteous works (Genesis 18:19). Moreover, it is also true that Abraham believed God, so he obeyed His command to offer Isaac (Hebrews 11:17), so the faith by which was was declared righteous was also embodied by being an obeyer of God, but he did not earn his righteousness as the result of his obedience (Romans 4:1-5). In James 2:21-24, he quoted Genesis 15:6 to support saying that Abraham was declared righteous by his works when he offered Isaac, that his faith was active along with his works, and his faith completed his works, so he was declared righteous by his works insofar as they were embodying his faith but not insofar as they were earning a wage.

We can do works that embody our faith, such as with James 2:18 saying that he would show his works through his faith, so everyone who is a doer of the same works as James believes in Jesus. In other words, the way to believe in God is by embodying His likeness through being a doer of His character traits. For example, by being a doer of good works in obedience to God's law we are embodying His goodness, which is why our good works bring glory to Him (Matthew 5:16), and by embodying His goodness we are also expressing the belief that God is good. Likewise, the way to believe that God is a doer of justice is by embodying His likes through being a doer of justice, the way to believe that God is compassionate is by being compassionate, the way to believe that God is holy is by being a doer of His instructions for how to be holy, and he is holy, and so forth. This is exactly the same as the way to believe in the Son, who is the radiance of God's glory and the exact likeness of His character (Hebrews 1:3), which he embodied through His works by setting a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to God's law. This is why the Bible frequently connects our belief in God with our obedience to Him, such as with Revelation 14:12 where those who kept faith in Jesus are the same as those who kept God's commandments, and it is by this faith alone that we attain the character traits of God.

 

[Burn1986]

Man, you guys have a lot of words